I did choose the dragon pillow as it was the first blue item that appeared in months.

I think the room is gorgeous. It’s only lacking a few finishing touches like plants, and lamps.

I don't understand. Why would someone want a designer to go "catalogue and retail " shopping? To me, that's a stylist. I don't see any issue with the room, other than put a bit of "you" back in it. We're seeing one view. Tale more from other angles. Lamps ,art ,accessories.

I'll pray your sectional holds up..............................................................: (

Looks beautiful. You need some lamps though.

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Calling all Pros:

JM posits an excellent question for people who have never hired a designer, which is really one of my goals here, to understand what is and is not part of a normal design process. Maybe it's me that was completely off base in my expectations.

QUESTIONS:

I guess expectations should be the first thing discussed between designer and client.

Does a designer "finish" the room?

Does a designer not select floor lamps, side table?

Does a designer not style the room that he/she designed?

Is all of the above necessarily catalogue and retail shopping?

Did "my expectations" go too far?

OR

Does a designer include in their contract all the things DIS did?

To me that was a contract that left no doubt about expectations.

It's an EXCELLENT list and one I wish I had before starting my project and one I've filed away should I ever hire another designer.

Does a designer complete a room in a fashion similar to what DIS did in the post of the first room?

That is a design that completely finished the room, top to bottom.

Again, I like this room. I do. It just feels ever so slightly incomplete and, as a non-professional, I don't know what's missing - floor lamp? plant? side table for chair? side table by couch? cigar table by chair? It's minor but there's something. And I'm at a loss as to what style floor lamp/ side table?

I like the other room, too, but it falls short as it does not, to me at least, read "reading room"; however, with the help I've gotten, I am on that path.

Lastly, taking the entire project as a whole, I did have an issue with a project that left me with 15 pillows, no console, no floor lamps.

I get what you're saying. I worked with a designer once (not on the same scale as you!) and I felt like I was left with a lot to do on my own and no direction. I'm still working on it, and it's frustrating.

I think if you emend up with things you didn’t want that is kind of on you. In all our design experiences for our build we had choice. If we didn’t like choice A or B then C was found. Even after that once we saw prices we could change things. So for me if I didn’t want a 10K couch and 15 pillows I wouldn’t have gave the okay for them. It really sounds like communication fell apart big time.

The designer I work with finishes the room. She usually doesn’t purchase large furniture from RH, because there are so many other brands that have superior quality with the same cost or less, for example King Hickory. The blogger Laurel Bern has an excellent post on RH.

A S - I agree. It's not "kind of" on me, it's 100% on me, and I take full responsibility for what happened. I did complain in a post above but decided to delete it because, in the end, I didn't speak up. In fact, I've never told the designer to this day how I feel but for I felt there wasn't enough blue and no console. I did bring up that I was intimidated when she yelled, "I'm not making any money with you." In the end, it was completely my fault. 100%. I didn't speak up for some reason. I did ask when we went to store and couch was on floor (first firm item almost a year ago), I'm worried about budget and was told, Don't you worry about budget. I deal with 1 million dollar budgets. I thought well she'll probably go lower for other items. Not so. All was high end. For some reason I was so intimidated - and that is 100% my fault.

I've learned so much here as I said above.

As it was my first experience, I thought I should put complete trust in the process and the designer. Foolish. I would not have done that with someone in my own former profession.

A designer does all of those things. If they are part of the written contract, and paid for by the client. A client who runs out of money only gets the high points of major product selections and space planning, and not the full service. Accessories and pillows and installations takes an inordinate amount of time compared to the rest, and can cost just as much as the space planning and original product selections services.

“Finishing” a room is on you, when you’ve run out of funds, unless you want to increase the budget to pay for the added services. And you already said that you were over budget. You received a good value for a tight budget allocation. You got the major bones. And it was well designed and coordinated. Fleshing it out is up to you. You got the nice car, with the upgraded engine. But the leather seats, fancy steering wheel, and super stereo weren't achievable on your budget. So, that’s left to you to add aftermarket accessories, over time, as the budget recovers.

Your issues are incorrect expectations when on a limited budget, and the communication about those expectations. Not the design work done. And also realize that there are many upstart designers who really don’t have a clue about running the business of design, and are not really making money. They just don’t know it yet. They don’t rely on their work as the primary breadwinners. So they can afford to work cheaper, or do more for less money. To make it in this business long term, you can’t do that. You can’t sell someone more than they are buying. So take a bunch of the internet second guesses from hobbyists with a big pinch of salt.

It is so crappy this happened for you and leaves such a negative overall take away. I am really upset on your behalf. It is so deflating to spend money on something that isn't what you really want. I also think it is amazing that you are sharing it here for others to see and hopefully learn from. I wish more people knew and understood what these forums could be. But they don't, and heck I didn't either. Most people come here when they are well into a project or have reach a hiccup. Really if they came before with their ideas they could build their confidence and then get local pros to see it through.

I find all the pillows smothering and I just can't picture having to pile up the pillows when I want to sit down, where do you put them all?

When I saw the Schumacher pillow I thought "Wonder if my mother's studio designed it?" So I sent her a picture and yes, they did. She did actually. She's now working on a wallpaper design for them.

Goodness, I just read what the designer said to you and that is simply horrifying. I'm sorry you had to go through that, hopefully this will be a learning experience and not one that "cowers" you in the long-run. I like your designed room, but agree that you need more "you" in there, whether that's a favorite color or more plants. I find a lot of this is trial and error, unfortunately.

Did "my expectations" go to far?

OR

Does a designer include in their contract all the things DIS did?

To me that was a contract that left no doubt about expectations.

It's an EXCELLENT list and one I wish I had before starting my project and one I've filed away should I ever hire another designer.

Does a designer complete a room in a fashion similar to what DIS did in the post of the first room?

For anyone who is missing the reference and who hasn't read Peace's initial thread about her reading room, it's here,

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5892189/before-after-with-a-designer-but-i-still-need-your-help

DIS poster is Design Interior South.

Peace, both of your posts reminded me about a good thread here several years ago about using designers (with a spin-off thread with advice from Anglophilia). I just found it,

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/4164440/working-with-a-designer#n=53

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/4191749/process-method-inspiration

Her comment about working with million dollar budgets was’t comforting or relevant IMO. I don’t know why she would say that. That says to me, “I don’t know how to stay on a ‘tight’ budget.” And that’s exactly what happened. She spent a bunch of money on certain things and ran out of money to accessorize. Of course you’ve been gracious enough to accept blame for that.

She spent a bunch of money on certain things and ran out of money to accessorize.

Actually, she pretty much started with the pillows and ran out of money, steam, and smarts before coming up with a lighting plan. And lights.

And Katie is correct, POH, you've been more than gracious enough to accept the blame for her professional irresponsibility.

Ideally, the designer will ask you to provide references for prospective clients : ) .

"A client who runs out of money only gets the high points of major product selections and space planning, and not the full service. "

"Accessories and pillows and installations takes an inordinate amount of time compared to the rest, and can cost just as much as the space planning and original product selections services."

Gee, I didn't realize spending 60k for two small rooms is a "limited" budget. I was very clear upon our initial meeting that my budget was 40k. There was a lot of discussion about that. I increased that budget twice. It is unprofessional for a designer to accept a job knowing he/she does not have the ability to work within that budget, IMHO. If you cannot do a job for the agreed upon price, then be honest and tell the client that. Give the client the opportunity to find someone else or another avenue to complete her project.

I did not "run out of money." I live small and I trusted her to work within my budget. I increased the budget not once but twice. This designer knew she was going over budget. I could not foresee how she was pulling room together. By the time I got costs on items, it was almost 8 months later and the comment had been made, "I'm not making any money with you" when I suggested changing out the couch. I just wanted to get this done and over with as I had gone through spring (initial meeting) , summer (contract signing), late summer/early fall (design meetings), winter (misery). I could have gone higher and higher but chose not to because I saw no end in sight. I was planning to build a new home in the South in the next three years and told the designer as much. Now thinking I had better purchase one already done - especially after perusing some posts by others. That seems like something that should be done if you are planning to spend 6million - which I'm not.

I hate putting this designer down but I am responding to comments and I really want this to help others looking for a designer and to help myself with future projects - not to mention rectifying what aspects need fixing. I liked many aspects about the person just not the way this contract was handled.

Had I completely understood what was happening, I would have purchased a less expensive couch, less pillows, some lamps, a console.

Good lord “incorrect expectations for a limited budget.” Live wire oak must have an open purse! Lucky! Sounds like the OP owned up to her errors but the designer has not.

When pillows were delivered, I was told "just throw them on the floor" when you're using couch. I was horrified. I never even thought of what to do with the pillows. I didn't visualize size of couch with all those pillows. It is very smothering. Imagine having guests and a bunch of pillows on the floor. I haven't had any guests yet as couch was finally delivered during COVID distancing.

I find them overdone, too. Which pillows would you delete?

I do believe pillows were a huge thing for this designer. As for the RH couch - that's the last thing I wanted and kept bringing up that article (which I had read long before then). She assured me I was wrong to be skeptical about this particular couch and that she has such a good reputation with them, that if anything went wrong, she would fix it. The couch popped up at the very last meeting when I said I really need reading chairs and boom, the couch we had worked on went out the window, the RH came in, and that was that. And I have to live with letting that be that.

becky: thanks for those links. I just copied them into pages.

Expensive pillows do make a difference. They can make a cheap couch look lux. Like wearing LV heels with a Forever21 little black dress- same concept. Play around with them in different quantities and combos until you like the look. The couch is a done deal. Don’t fret. It looks nice. Since that vent cover bothers you so much, try to find a small tray or narrow side table for right there.

I love the dragon pillow (even before i knew who designed it) and the textured one. It’s the striped one that feels off to me. But I would play around with removing specific ones versus reducing the sheer number of them.

Since that vent cover bothers you so much, try to find a small tray or narrow side table for right there

That's what a floor lamp, or side table with table lamp, would be perfect for.

The vent cover is taken care of. It's under the couch. The vent cover was a problem had I ordered a plinth base with the smaller couch. At least that problem was caught and taken care of.

“So take a bunch of the internet second guesses from hobbyists with a big pinch of salt.”

Unless you’re the designer POH is discussing here, or were working with her on this project, then you’re doing the exact same thing as “hobbyists”. Second guessing. You weren’t there and are going by the same info everyone else is. Not every ID uses the same contracts, has the exact same business model, uses the same design sources, etc. So your post is just as much speculation as anyone’s.

Plus the fact that you don’t know who of us here is in the business, but decided not to advertise it.

A client who runs out of money only gets the high points of major product selections and space planning, and not the full service.

YIKES!! Isn't the pro supposed to find out what the budget is and work with it? Why does is the designer off the hook?

Well I think the point is that it wasn’t in a contract that exactly Peace was getting. She assumed it was a completed room. And it should’ve been...who wants to pay $60k to then finish the room herself.

@tlbb 100% agree. It is both client and designer who should be trying to stay on budget. Our designer specked counters that were three times the budget. I didn't order them. Total garbage. We found a suitable replacement within budget. But we had to figure that out together. Hold each other accountable.

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I’m going to make some generalizations here- I don’t intend to offend anyone. I’ve only been active in this community for a few months. Such a wonderful resource, but I have noticed one thing. When a project is presented, pros tell it like they see it...they know what looks good...not really taking budget into account. Even when a budget is presented, this still happens. Someone says, I can afford paint, and many pros will say, nope, gut it. This seems to be a “thing” with many designers (And that’s fine! Especially here). I appreciate the amateur responses for this reason, as they are often more sensitive to the budget of a middle-class person (the main audience).

In Peace’s situation, with an in-person, local designer and known budget, this same phenomenon has occurred. And that’s a tragedy. The designer failed the client by not taking budget into account in her design. I still think $5k pillows on this project was ridiculous. You had a healthy budget, Peace, but that money wasn’t spent well to give you a “whole” look. That’s on the designer. As you’ve said over and over, you also “failed” in not speaking up. You could’ve sourced your own retail pieces, such as the $10k couch. If she truly cared about the final product, your budget, and her relationship with you, she would’ve let you, and recommended, you do that.

It's on both of you, client and designer.

Her planning was not informative enough, nor was your questioning of the planning. I've no clue how she structures a fee, but design to tha LAST FINISHED detail? That has to be structured into a fee. As does lighting. ...artwork, framing, doo dads you name it.

Clients can do a tremendous amount of "hand wringing" on final details. I can select the perfect lamp in an hour. I can make a little money on, it, not much by the time I factor in shipping. IF however, client then goes on line, for THAT one, or a "look similar? What do I do? That understanding of "purchases go though me" has to be discussed at the onset. Unfair? No it is not. This "finishing" can take a lot of time. Or a stylist type "designer", can run through a Home Goods and load up. I won't say I have NEVER done the latter, but on my terms and under duress. I only come out with "gems", I see crap out the back of my head.

In short, which would you rather? The beautiful /quality 400.00 dollar lamp on which I made a hundred?Or I run to three discount joints, charge you by the hour, and it takes THREE hours, and you get junk by comparison to the 400.00 gem.

Five k of pillows on what will finally ( bet me on this ) turn out to be a disappointing sofa? You'd have been better with a custom sofa, for ten k, and discount store pillows.

That is what you pay a designer to DO. Your style , fitting the space, and your lifestyle, in the best quality you can afford, and put that quality, where it matter MOST. No.it ISN'T easy. It's why we get paid lol.

But Jan there should be middle ground. The client and designer need to have frank and honest conversations from the start. If I want a discount lamp and the designer thinks not reasonable and will cost more to source the crappy lamp that needs to be explained clearly and then I make the call. Our experience going through this was that there were a lot of assumptions made, on our side and on design/build side, that could have been solved with a few more air clearing conversations to make sure we were thinking the same thing and had same goals/expectations. I love your last paragraph and feel like it really summarizes it all.

Yes, "You make the call" .Yes you own the result. : )

The middle ground needs to be AGREED on. She has, in a way, the " bad middle ground" ...left to do final touches on her own. That designer sold her 5K!!!! worth of pillows,

WHY? Because in her very own words she stated ' I am not making any money here". So she decided to make money. In the WRONG place, ( relative to total budget ) on custom pillows. That's why!

Call if failing to convey truthfully,- it will yield a ticked off client. Or.... Designer says to client" My fee is in part, whole or otherwise in the purchases that go through me at WHOLESALE. Or she conveys some other structure. Ambiguity, as happened here, .......sucks. For both.

I feel for you POH -- . I think that your budget was very comfortable, and even if the designer is not thinking it is comfortable then I think she should have spelled out what would have to be omitted or come later. I would think that when you hire a designer to "do a room" it is a completed room.I have also experienced what Katie B wrote, that the designer zeros in on a great piece or component that is way pricey. With that, they should be able to compensate with other pieces - not everything needs to be custom. I have also found that when they estimate labor like painting for example, they often lowball that and then when the contractor steps in, it;s false expectations.

Anyway this is my long way of saying I feel for you and I also think you have a beautiful home.I am sure the tweaks you might do will be minor and it will all look fabulous........(but you shouldn't have to be asking for suggestions to tweak).

I really did believe i was getting a custom couch - initially. The store I did purchase the couch from, I thought, did custom work, but they're not really custom. They're floor although huge, sort of looks too busy, not very clean. But with all the problems, I realized I hadn't ordered custom. Remember I had absolutely no experience with a designer or with purchasing larger items - hadn't done purchased new larger items in in years.

When the couch wasn't delivered, during the first week we were stuck with Covid, I almost purchased the Arcata Three-Piece Sectional from Ethan Allen for 4,417.00 - half the price. But then the designer said it would definitely be there in a matter of days, so I said OK. The thought of not having a couch while suffering at home with Covid distancing, made me so depressed, and since I was told it would really be here within five days, I said go ahead.

I think there's some conflation going on here.

I never tried to go around her with finding lesser priced items as I felt that was unfair and I just wouldn't do that. I was charged 35% mark up - designer wholesale plus 35%

and also retail 35% mark up.

The delivery on the couch alone was $800. I never complained about what I was paying. Not once.

From 1.25 page contract:

"Freight charges and white glove charges billed at cost. Window treatment installation and picture hanging billed at 15% cost.

"Interior design services for side-by-side living spaces include design concepts and floor plans as well as selections of paint colors, wall finishes, fabrics, lighting and furnishings."

There are things in contract that never happened, for example:

"Three COMPLETE schemes are put together for each space often including extra items as we see fit."

Lastly, I paid for almost all upfront 100%. She would tell me she sent an invoice. I opened email, wrote check, and dropped it off at post office either same night or early next morning.

She allowed me to use my own painter but that was discussed in the initial interview. She volunteered that before I gave her the job. It was never something I asked for.

Jus thought of another thing I didn't do, I didn't interview any other designer.

"to the last detail"? Is a console that you use every single day, several times a day, where you store things by front door a "last detail"? Should that not supersede 15 pillows? One lamp? One side table? Remember neither room came with side tables. A new coffee table in room 1 was ditched for the one I already had.

Thank you, Salvona, Re asking for suggestions to "tweak," the console was very hard for me to know what would work. I really did need help there. Also introducing blue I needed help with.

I think this room in this post I'll be able to handle - but I'm sick about the fact that a pro thinks I'm going to definitely be disappointed in that couch. Sick.

Lillian August is "Hickory White" under the designers name, and just fine. . RH? A different story. I thought the sofa was indeed RH.

And ....YES! a Console and many other things, far surpass pillows in importance. .That is my point.

POH, I'm sorry. The designer didn't finish her contract with you then gaslighted you. Did you ever check her references?

Peace, she spent 10 minutes finding a couch online to then charge you a 35% markup. You’re sweet- I know you didn’t want to interfere with her “process,” but she got to collect her markup and not finish the job. It sounds wonky. If she had been a decent professional she would’ve said, “hey, I really think you need 15 pillows, but why don’t we do 12 so you have money for lighting and accessories.” Or, “hey, find a couch you like that is this size and order it...otherwise I won’t have money for finishing touches.”

I love all of the pillows and think they look beautiful together and with the room as a whole. The tie-dye/striped one looks like it ties in with the pale blue/gray of the chair. I agree to just play around with them and find a combo you like with fewer pillows overall.

Maybe I misunderstood, but I believe your current couch in the correct size that you had to wait forever for covers the vent, yes? Or does it still leave part of it exposed?

Thanks, everyone.

Eastautumn (love that name). It covers the vent.

I'll try mixing up the pillows. Everything depends on what the wallpaper will look like.

One thing that gives me comfort is knowing so many of you agree - especially the PROs and some whom I suspect are PROs - that I was shortchanged. I thought I was imagining things or that my expectations were out of line.

I hope this helps not only those who plan to hire a designer but that it also helps designers. For me, it has helped tremendously in finding new direction for what I like and has been extremely cathartic.

Thank you, all.

Everything depends on what the wallpaper will look like.

Oh! Did we know about wallpaper? I think I missed this!

For just this room, or both of them? What are the choices?

Hi DIS. Thank you for your advice, once again.

The designer was not there for delivery because she had a conflict but did come later that day when I told her couch was short. I paid for white glove service. Both couches came that day. Lillian August had no white gloves but did take off their shoes. RH had white gloves but dirty sneakers, and it was raining that day.

When couch arrived, I measured and told her it was short. She arrived later in the day and told me at that time couch was not short, "any bigger and it would be a bed." I felt like an idiot because I am terrible with scale before it's in a room. After emails back and forth, where I thought I was losing my mind, and remembered we had actually changed out the plinth base so I could accommodate the larger size to go over the vent, she checked the paperwork and indeed confirmed that we had ordered the larger size. This is when I started to question things. For instance, I had wanted bench seats and thought for months I was getting bench seats, but when it came time to order I was told we had never discussed bench seats for the sectional. And she always said things so firmly and positively that I thought maybe I was wrong. But after "we never ordered the larger couch" so firmly said in emails was followed by, "I checked the paperwork. You did order the larger couch" - Not oops, I'm sorry I was wrong, but just a simple "you did order the larger couch" - things took a turn in my mind, I started to question her. Eventually the right couch was delivered.

Becky:

Wallpaper is wallpaper DIS South suggested in post about room 1. I'm waiting for samples. I am not wallpapering room 2.

p.s. I'm not sure that I have that much custom work here.

Re pillows: I never thought about how many pillows we were going to use and left that completely to designer. In fact, when I got the invoice, I didn't look at each line item, but just the total for the room - except for the couch. I know, foolish. Dumb. The RH coffee table in room 2 was also up there in price for that particular table - but I like it in the room and am happy I purchased it.

You are not dumb. Too trusting maybe. But you hired a professional and expected a professional. Many things you’ve said about her and the experience suggest she lacked professionalism. Sometimes highly creative people can’t keep a business together- 2 opposing parts of the brain. Maybe she was one of those types. Or just inexperienced. Who really knows. Don’t go backward about the big purchases. They are there. RH is fine, and better than what 90% of people buy.

The problem here is that the OP did not research a designer properly, couldn't speak up when things started to go poorly & chose a designer that in my opinion, was unscrupulous. I've hired a designer on several occasions, mostly to assist me with rather general design issues so that I avoided making poor decisions that may prove to be costly or ill thought out. I valued their expertise & have no regrets about the designers I chose. I also believe they are expensive & often have an agenda of their own. Designers are in that career group (lawyers, architects, landscape designers), where they are paid for their work but the payee is never quite sure just how much labor is involved in the process & whether they are getting value for their money. A designer can spend 10 minutes locating the "right" lamp or ten hours. Ten hours of searching the Internet will take a chunk of money out of that retainer & the costs just add up. I think designers would do themselves a favor by being clear, concise, an ability to listen, an ability to teach, work within a budget, offer suggestions to keep costs corralled, be honest about discounts & markups, & get off their high horse that only THEIR ideas have value.

I don't want to mislead here. She did have ceiling lights installed, 8 of them, 4 in each room. Her electrician charged approximately 1,400 and he was the best. I still kept asking about lighting in the form of lamps.

Again, the onus is on me. 100%.

I'll post a new post when the wallpaper comes in and then I'd love all the input I can get.

Stay safe, stay healthy!

Peace if you post the wallpaper on your original post it will be helpful since that is where the photos of the room are and all the other comments and ideas about pulling it together.

DIS South. Good advice. I will.

Beautiful, love the colors!!

Your room is lovely, beautiful colors and it looks like a great place to curl up with a good book!

Love the collection of cushions, specially the tie dye ones, that gives me an idea to make some myself with my kids, always a fun project :)