I have a Bosch double oven with side swing doors. I do like the doors a lot, as well as the extension rack (especially when cooking a roast turkey or something similar that might be heavy and require basting). No issues at all with enamel chipping. As far as the temperature it does hold it as well as my prior oven - but it does heat much more evenly when in convection mode. Good luck with whatever you choose!

Have you considered GE Monogram or Cafe?

Both are available (last I checked) in a French door version. My experience with the previous version of Monogram is that it's very reliable, very good temperature uniformity for bread.

If you're okay without the extra bells and whistles (digital controls, plug in temperature probe, etc.) the entry level Miele is a great deal. The same Miele oven cooking technology for a much lower price. For us this was great, as we prefer knob controls for our basic oven (and we paired it with the digital controls for a convection steam oven).

https://www.mieleusa.com/e/30-inch-convection-oven-h-6281-bp-clean-touch-steel-10773320-p

"The blue enamel chipping was solely a problem with Wolf ovens."

Not true. Chipping is still a problem, it's not in the past. And we've seen it on many brands, including Miele. That said, I think I've only seen one complaint about Miele, so it may be an isolated thing.

@User, I’ve never heard of enamel chipping in Miele ovens, and I’ve been this forum for at least 20 years...long before Houzz, and even before it was the Garden Web. In almost five years of use, I’ve not had one flake from my Miele ovens.

In using “was”, in my statement about Wolf ovens, I was referring to all the hoopla of several years ago, when chipping was big news, and a major problem. My understanding is that Wolf revamped the formula, and the issue has mostly been solved. I’ve two friends that have new Wolf ovens, and they’re very pleased.

I chose Miele when I renovated my kitchen, because of advice from many Garden Web posters. I wanted a CSO oven, and the consensus was that Miele’s performed a bit better, and was easier to clean. We have not been disappointed with that purchase, or the convection oven. Both are fabulous.

Miele doesn't have enamel interiors, so there is no way for chipping enamel to be a problem.

@darbuka, see this thread. Someone had their Miele chip. As I said this is the only case I've heard of, and same with their tech, so it's probably isolated. Still, goes to show that it's possible with any brand.

As for Wolf, we have plenty of recent reports of chipping on newer models. See this thread. People being happy with their new Wolf ovens doesn't tell you the problem's fixed, most people who have experienced the chipping in the past were initially happy with their ovens, too. Sometimes the chipping takes years to show up. Anyway, even if they have finally have fixed it on current production models (which I'm skeptical of since we've heard this many times before only to get reports of new chipping), it will take years for us to know, as we'll have to see how they hold up.

@Kristin S, that's false. All non-specialty home ovens have porcelain enamel interiors, Miele included. The porcelain coating has two major purposes: to protect the underlying metal from corrosion, and to allow for ease of cleaning. You may be thinking of Miele's specialty models, like the speed oven and steam oven, which do indeed have stainless, non-enamel interiors. Those are not the products at issue.

You found one instance of a Miele oven flaking. One. And, not one since. I’d hardly call that a “flaking problem.” Wolf had/has a major issue...many, many reported issues with flaking. Your link reported other brands having the same, or similar issues.

After nearly 5 years of nothing but great performance, I’m secure in expecting no problems will occur further down the road with my oven.

As I said before, I highly recommend Miele ovens.

I have been very happy with our Bluestar 30" french door electric wall oven. Simple controls, one sliding shelf, holds full size baking trays, built in baking stone with temperature probe, a broiler that is just one step short of a real salamander. The advantage of french doors is that they take up less aisle space when open. It is not a cheap as some of the other brands.

One batch of bread

Cookies

”are the 4-5K ovens “worth” it compared to the 2-3k brands?”

Maybe. I really loved my Electrolux compared to my Wolf range oven. They both chipped though. The Elux has a lot more function, preheated quickly, much more range of temperature in different modes and maybe more even in baking. It now has an error but still works most of the time with rebooting it did have chipping twice but was much less expensive to fix than Wolf. Wolf would never give me a price to fix so it can’t be used except with covered dishes I am looking to replace my Elux.

Gaggenau is one consideration. I think they invented the blue enamel and have a unique formula. A few people have had it here on this forum over the years. I think Miele is a pretty good oven. I was considering Bosch. I would be suspicious of just about any blue enamel ovens. Besides Wolf and Elux, I also had blue chipping with Dacor blue interior.

Do you use convection? There can be huge differences in the way that the fans function. GE has reversing fans on some models and monogram and some GE models have a fan setting for the air to come from the top. The Wolf M has fans in the corner but there are reports of the fans causing excess browning on the sides

Have you considered a combi oven? This also gives you control of humidity. I have to have my two big ovens because we (used to:-( ) have big family parties or I would consider those.

“smooth gliding extension racks look great to me (my current oven doesn’t have these). Does everyone who has them agree they are great? “

I use the ball bearing rack on the bottom which I don’t move but I move my racks around too much to use it on other racks. It is too difficult to be switching around with the ball bearings. If you get them, try moving them yourself before you buy. The ones I had from Dacor were a bear while the Elux were a little easier. I would hope to get one ball bearing and 2 regular racks. You also have to watch them when they are new because if the oven isn’t perfectly even, they can quickly roll out.

“are the side opening doors more functional than a typical pull-down door?“

Some people like side opening doors but they have some safety issues. You lose the door as a barrier to anything that sloshes or falls toward your feet, pets or kids that can dart under the oven. You also lose the door being a little place to rest a cookie sheet while switching them. Make sure you have a place to land stuff and that the door opens enough and ok with your cabinets. Make sure to try them out.

Another thing I would suggest is to make sure you carefully read the manual before you buy.

hvtech42, How are you? My KA fridge is still running great thanks to you! Good to see you here.

Thanks everyone for all the great advice here!

@darbuka My husband is leaning towards Miele (he is German!). We have a Miele dishwasher and induction cooktop (and washing machine). The DW is great but the cooktop does seem a little temperamental in its controls. I am a tad skeptical given the cost, so its great to hear that your oven has been reliable with no chipping issues. I would love to put in a Miele CSO but only have space for 1 oven…maybe in a future kitchen.

@Mom Thanks for your feedback and glad your Bosch is doing well. Our new oven would sit underneath our Bosch microwave, so I’m thinking this might “look” the best in terms of matching the stainless. I like the look of their extension racks.

@Michelle misses Sophie Yes, some of the Monogram and Café ovens get great reviews. I’m very tempted to go with a mid-range price point especially given the current uncertainties around us – my husband is in the mindset of spending more as we use the oven so much.

@Kristin S I really don’t need (or want) digital bells and whistles or any programmable cook modes etc. The temperature probe would be useful but I have a good instant read probe. This Miele is definitely in the running for us - thank you!

@User Thanks for your feedback – these are my concerns with other brands. We were looking at Wolf until we read the very long thread with lots of issues. Some of them seemed quite recent. I hope Wolf has fixed it but its enough to make me pick another brand…

@Jerry Jorgenson That is an impressive batch of bread!! I like the sound of the BlueStar – simple controls are appealing to me, as is a built in baking stone.

@wekick Thanks for your advice! I do use convection and didn’t realize there are differences between brands in function. I looked at combi ovens but it seems they have a lower top temperature (and are often smaller in capacity), so I excluded them as this is my only oven. I was thinking more on the extension racks and wondered whether I might find them cumbersome – having just one on the bottom seems a good idea. We would have space for a side opening door but we do have pets and kids, and I do use my pull-down door to rest a cookie sheet etc (although I guess an extension rack would minimize the need to do this). Lots to think about – thank you!

I’m relieved that we seem to have a few viable options! (I read several other threads on here and felt that there were no good ovens). I need to make a decision soon because I am tired of uniformly soggy bottoms on my pastry and floppy pizza crusts. Thanks everyone :)

NO SOGGY BOTTOMS! ;-)

Can you fix your oven? Sometimes it just needs a new heating element. If you like your oven, that could be a consideration.

Otherwise, that Bluestar is to die for!!! If I could, I would have that in a heart beat!!

@wekick Doing well, thanks. Glad I was able to help with that fridge - though you really lucked out with the timing, I think that bulletin came out a few days before yours broke - after the board had been unavailable for years!

Curious, what error code are you getting on your Electrolux? I want to see if it might be something easy to fix (not necessarily the board). As you know buying a new appliance can be a crapshoot, hard to know how a particular unit will hold up and perform. Seems like if you're happy with the performance and it's held up this long, it would be worth a try to repair. Maybe start a new thread?

@Mayland Something that might interest you is this comparison of baking evenness between ovens:

https://blog.yaleappliance.com/best-convection-wall-ovens

I have my issues with it, they didn't test exactly the same types/numbers of baked goods in each oven. Still, interesting nonetheless.

I find glide racks to be a very nice feature, not a necessity by any means, but I've been spoiled and now, personally I wouldn't buy an oven without at least one. Just makes it a lot easier to get food in and out. Side swing doors are basically the same idea - your food is right there in front of you and you don't need to put your hands in the oven or lift over the door. But honestly, if you have glide racks I don't think the side swing is really necessary. Plus it's possible to less to get an oven with glide racks for much less money than one with side swing, and there are many more choices of brands.

Bosch, Miele, and Gaggenau seem to be the longtime favorite ovens of this forum, though a few people have bought the relatively recent Bluestar ovens and like them. People seem to love the performance of Wolf, though there's the porcelain issue which you've heard about. Electrolux used to be a favorite, but the porcelain issues which they seemed to have fixed previously have recurred (including on my own range), and in general, they don't seem as well built as they used to be. You could also look at the new Thermador line, which is just a higher end Bosch at this point - the controls are different and they have some extra features, but they're made in the same factory so I'm pretty sure that under the hood, they're the same. I would be shy about Kitchenaid or anything from Whirlpool - my wall oven from them with blue porcelain also chipped and there have been many other reports of the same.

Something to keep in mind with the new Thermador ovens - they have a lower maximum temperature than the Bosch Benchmark and the previous generation Thermador models, plus they have a smaller cavity. I would suspect these are to protect the "swipe screen" control that is now used.

I have the previous generation Thermador Professional, and only have it because I could snag one of the last ones. I was not impressed with the new models (they look more "show" than "go"). It also does not bake as evenly as the circa 2006 Monogram ZET2 double ovens I had in our previous home.

Hmm... you're right, they only go up to 525. Not a huge difference, but very odd given that 550 has been the standard for decades on pretty much every oven - from the $300 landlord ranges all the way up to the top of the line.

If you bake pizza a lot, which is usually done around 500-525, it's a reason to give pause to the new Thermador models. I question their longevity for those of us who like to bake a lot.

The Bluestars' built in pizza stone has an internal temperature probe, so the preheating doesn't end until the stone is actually at the right temperature--no more guessing, or leaving the oven on for an extra twenty minutes to insure the stone is at the right temperature.

Pear, goat cheese, eggplant, and caramelized onion pizza. Crust is fresh milled (by me) whole wheat.

@darbuka I am currently picking out ovens for a new house build. I'm definitely getting the Miele CSO, but I'm having trouble picking out a second oven.

- Consumer reports gives top praise to Samsung, claiming their baking and broiling are top notch in their tests. However, the sales person at the appliance store said people aren't happy with them and it's hard to get technicians to work on them. That info, coupled with the fact that I rarely (if ever?) see someone suggest a samsung oven, I've taken that off the list.

- Next up, consumer reports favors a whole bunch of KitchenAid ovens. My Brother in Law has their double oven and likes it. But I don't have much beyond that, as he isn't a big baker or even that big of a cook.

- Lastly, the Miele would be nice to match. BUT consumer reports only gives them a 3/5 stars on both baking and broiling. I wanted to ask how you feel about that. Have you run into the same thing? Does it seem to bake well (no major hot spots)? The fact that it has two convection fans makes me think it should work better. Thought I'd ask!

veegardens -- I trust CR ratings about as far as I can throw their headquarters building. They like lowest common denominator, industry standard equipment. I've been very happy with my Bluestar single 30" wall oven which I've had since 2017. I'm also very happy with my Miele dishwasher which I purchased at the same time. So if you want a Miele, go for it. I didn't choose Miele because it doesn't hold a full size baking sheet and it wants to decide how to cook things so you never actually learn.

Thanks for that info I'll have to check into the interior size of the Miele. It might drive me crazy to not fit a full size baking sheet (which I consider to be a half-sheet professional baking pan).

veegardens -- I'm sure it will hold a half size, but I was talking about a full size (26x18 inches).

"All non-specialty home ovens have porcelain enamel interiors, Miele included. The porcelain coating has two major purposes: to protect the underlying metal from corrosion, and to allow for ease of cleaning. You may be thinking of Miele's specialty models, like the speed oven and steam oven, which do indeed have stainless, non-enamel interiors. Those are not the products at issue."

If they make speed ovens and steam ovens in stainless, why don't they make convection ovens in stainless, too? Would the reasoning be that a regular oven can reach much higher temperatures than a steam or speed oven, thus "requiring" an enamel protection?