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michele_kleinhomer

Are these cracks in new cabinets acceptable?

5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago

I am having my kitchen remodeled. We bought WayPoint 650F 5-panel Shaker white cabinets. Our remodeler told us they are pretty good quality cabinets. We just had them installed last week. I see cracks like the ones in the pictures. I have no idea if these are normal. I am fine if they are, but I don't want to be scammed. We haven't made our final payment yet. I want to verify that these are acceptable before I make the final payment.



Comments (36)

  • PRO
    5 years ago

    That is how wood works unfortunately, it expands and contracts which shows in white paint. The second picture is completely normal, the first one seems a bit extreme for brand new cabinets. What is the humidity in your home? How have they been stored?

  • 5 years ago

    @HALLETT & Co.Thanks for the feedback. The cabinets have only been in place for a week. It sounds like from your and @User comments that I should make sure the remodeler replaces the second door. I live in Delaware. We don't have excessive humidity. We do have a dehumidifier. Do you suggest we always run that?


    Should I expect all the cabinets to eventually have hairline cracks like the 2nd picture? I am fine with that. Should the cracks always be a straight line and on a joint or will I get crooked lines and some not on joints? I am trying to understand what I should expect. I am frustrated that the remodeler did not tell me I would have cracks. I would probably gone with these cabinets anyway, but I would like to have known up front. This seem like something pretty significant that should be discussed up front.

  • PRO
    5 years ago

    Sorry it is painted wood 101- stained wood cabinets have cracks too they just don't show. I feel the door with the open door should be replaced, the hairline crack is normal. You need to maintain consistent humidity inside- not too moist, not too dry.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    ABSOLUTELY NOT. Do your research before buying. You get what you pay for. I purchased Starmark 3.5 years ago. Beautiful and flawless. Still.

  • PRO
    5 years ago

    Not normal. Have them fix it.

  • PRO
    5 years ago

    Looked at the Wayfair site and if the paint was applied to wood panel doors instead of MDF doors then there will be hairline cracks when it expands and contracts. Unfortunately, the website does not indicate the substrate for painted doors.

  • 5 years ago

    @User I don't mind the wood cracks. Because I am not experienced with wood, I am not clear about what is normal now & what I should expect in the future. It sounds like, based on the two pictures I provided, that #1 is not "normal" and should be replaced. Will all the cracks look like a straight hair over time or should I expect them to become jagged? I am not finding good examples on the internet around what "normal" hairline cracks are.

  • 5 years ago

    @Marilyn Cleveland Are you saying that the Wayfair cabinets I purchased are of poor quality? That is not what we were led to believe.

  • PRO
    5 years ago

    Your top picture is not acceptable. That is more than a hairline fissure you get in the paint. In your second picture - the top ( drawer front ) is something that can/will happen with painted wood doors. The one on the door below it is also not acceptable for brand new cabinets.

    Usually you may only see one or 2 if any in the whole kitchen when they are brand new. It is something that happens over time if proper STEADY humidity levels are not maintained in the house.

    I would politely ask for replacements of these pieces. I am not familiar with this line of cabinetry so I can't really comment on a good/better/best opinion.

    Good luck!


  • 5 years ago

    The first image looks bad--it's not so much that the paint has cracked as that the joint isn't tight and whatever made it loose cracked the paint more than you'd normally get (and the normal is more in the second photo). (Although the bottom door in the second photo looks like there is a gap, not just a crack in the paint. If that's the case, I'd be annoyed with that one too.)

  • 5 years ago

    @Debbi Washburn@Fori I really appreciate your input! The contractor is still working & plans to replace some of the cabinet doors. I think I will take pictures of all of them once he has replaced what he thinks needs to be replaced & post them here for everyone to comment to make sure I am not being mislead by him. Thank you again!

  • 5 years ago

    Ugh

  • PRO
    5 years ago

    Neither is not normal and unecceptable.

  • 5 years ago

    @Creative Design Cabinetry Can you clarify your statement? Are you saying that what I posted in both of my pictures is unacceptable?

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    The first is unacceptable. The second is to be expected with the choice of a wood cabinet and a paint coating. All warranties for any wood material like floors, furniture, or cabinets, require that your home maintain 30-60% humidity levels. If your home is outside that, that may account for the normal hairline cracks appearing sooner than you’d expect on a new order of cabinets. I normally would not expect them to appear until the first season change.

  • 5 years ago

    The workers are going in and out of our house right now. I would assume that is causing variation in the humidity levels. How do people avoid that when the remodeling is underway?

  • 5 years ago

    If I decide I don't like the hairline cracks, is it possible to ask for the cabinet doors to be replaced with MDF doors at this point? Assuming that I would be o.k. with the cost of switching them.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Doors can be switched out. It’s not a big deal. But doors and drawer fronts are the most expensive part of a cabinet. You may not like the materials and labor cost to do that.


    As to how people avoid the humidity swings, the work area is usually taped off with zip walls or other plastic sheeting to isolate the mess, and to help to create an airlock type situation for the hvac. Spring and fall are the most stable times, and the exterior humidity and temperature usually falls with the parameters. It’s summer and winter that you get the wider swings. That’s when people get irritated by their paid for conditioned air leaving their houses too. Which is why pros isolate and protect the renovation areas.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    None of this is normal for a kitchen that has been installed a week in an air conditioned house!

    Here is a more complete answer than you want.

    Wood is hygroscopic which means wood swells with swings in humidity, but air conditioned homes don't have wild swings in humidity, most homes will see swings around 5% in a year. When wood swells it does so across the width and not the length, wood is very stable longitudinally (just like me... they get fatter, not taller).

    To take advantage of this cabinets are made using cope and stick which attaches one swelling side to one stable side. The idea being that only one side of each joint will move. This will break the paint line over time, but it shouldn't separate cabinet joints. However, a week is a pretty short time to see that type of movement.

    Your first picture is not normal for any kitchen cabinet and is probably shipping damage. It is possible that the manufacturer used a board that was not properly dried and it pulled apart as it dried, but at any rate it is a problem.

    Your second picture is normal.

    Your third picture is actually the most problematic for me. That door was separated before it was sprayed. That door was like that before it was painted and no one even bothered to fix it or reject it and that is pretty bad.

    -----

    MDF rails and stiles have more problems... so no you shouldn't change to an all MDF door. If you are stuck with this manufacturer try to get their best work by being a bit demanding, but your only chance at better quality is probably switching manufacturers, not materials.

    Best of luck

    ETA: Just to be clear, neither photo one or photo three are caused by humidity movement in wood. It is not your workers going in and out that caused that.

  • 5 years ago

    @bry911 Thank you for the detailed response! It was very informative.


  • 5 years ago

    Demand replacements. These are not acceptable, at least not #1. I'd try to make them replace the 2nd picture also. Do not waste your time changing to MDF. Personally, I'd never consider MDF and I don't care what "qualified kitchen designers" claim, especially if they sell the cabinets. MDF gets wet and becomes swollen and is destroyed. I'm also not saying that all cabinets from big box stores are bad. You have to decide what is important to you and how long you plan to stay in the house. Some of the reputations of some of the manufacturers have gone down the toilet. Their customer service might be bad or their product might not be as good as it used to be. I've had 4 custom designed kitchens and I don't remember the 1st brand, "Diamond" cabinets from Lowe's in one (they replaced a door that warped, no questions asked), Cabinets . com in another (they were lovely with pull outs and soft close but weren't glued, so I was a bit disappointed) and this is my last house and I'm about to install Starmark. Also, when you are looking at catalogs and let's say you've picked maple and a door style says M3 or M9, the M3 style is less expensive. Painted cabinets are not necessarily less expensive because someone has to paint them.


    It's heartbreaking to be excited about a new kitchen and then have cabinets arrive like yours. Definitely do not just let the Remodeler decide which to replace. If they all have cracks like #1, make them replace all of them. It's only costing time and it shouldn't cost you a single penny. Stand up for yourself. It is not the humidity of laborers walking in and out. That's ridiculous, unless they pointed a hose at them and blasted them with water, which I highly doubt!


    Good luck.

  • 5 years ago

    @Jill KrolThank you for your input. I will keep everyone updated. You said exactly how I feel - "heartbroken." I am so excited about everything except for the cabinets. We have had everything on our first floor replaced - flooring, lighting, wall paint, door knobs, hinges, toilet, etc.

  • 5 years ago

    A somewhat related question. I have purchased and had outdoor signage made from MDO or medium density outdoor board. It stays out in weather for years with no damage. Is there a reason it isn't used in these applications where water may come in contact with cabinets?

  • 5 years ago

    No to those cabinets. I have white, budget-friendly cabinets (prolly lower quality than yours), and they don't have cracks anything like that. The widest would be hairline.


    I live in an environment with huge seasonal temperature swings. They never expand and contract to look like the ones you've been issued.

  • PRO
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    They came from China in a container. They arrived to less humidity. There ya go.

    MDF Is not "partical board" . For faces on maple boxes? Much more stable in any painted application.

  • 5 years ago

    Do not waste your time changing to MDF. Personally, I'd never consider MDF and I don't care what "qualified kitchen designers" claim, especially if they sell the cabinets.

    I am not a qualified kitchen designer and I don't sell cabinets. MDF is fine.

    If you are comparing furnitureboard MDF with 13 ply veneer core marine glue plywood, then the plywood is going to win every time. That is what happens when you compare something that costs $32 per sheet with something that costs $95 per sheet. However, no low to mid grade cabinet is going to be using a decent veneer core plywood, they are going to be using a cabinet faced construction combination core plywood that is not going to react any better to water than mdf would.

    In the end MDF has several advantages over plywood at the same price point which is why it is so often used. Right now, in my shop I have probably 20 sheets of 3/4" Baltic Birch and probably 30 sheets of 3/4" A1 Maple Plywood, all of which will be worked on shop furniture made of MDF. That MDF shop furniture gets beat up a lot more than your kitchen cabinets do and it does fine.


    Having said all that, MDF has weaknesses for rails and stiles that make it less preferable in that application, the only way to get really sturdy doors with corners that will not round off over time using MDF is to wrap it in thermofoil. Which is why MDF is great for panels but not as great for the framing material, that is why I advised the OP to not switch from MDF panels to full MDF doors.

  • 5 years ago

    @bry911 what do mean ‘corners that will not round off over time?’
    I’ve been researching kitchen cabinets and every dealer tells you something different depending on what they want to sell you. It’s all so confusing. The one I’m meeting with today told me over the phone that no one is using wood doors anymore because MDF is better for paint. I’ve also gotten a quote for what you mention above - maple framing with MDF panels. A ‘Custom Woodworking’ company I contacted uses metal drawer sides, melamine boxes and MDF doors...

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Wrapping in thermofoil versus some other more marketable material that uses substantially the same process is largely irrelevant to this discussion.

    The OP is not dealing with a company that is going to provide a quality surface material, look at the cabinets they provided...

    My advice was to the OP and not a discussion of the overall possibilities of MDF. If you can't trust them to reject a poor door before paint, you certainly shouldn't trust them to provide a durable MDF door.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    @bry911 what do mean ‘corners that will not round off over time?’

    All wood is bad at keeping a crisp edge and MDF is among the worst. MDF frames are usually wrapped in something else. I veneer MDF from time to time, it isn't difficult or anything. In fact, I just got in 5,000 board feet of Walnut and the best boards will be cut into veneers and faced on other stuff. I like sticking it on MDF.

    While I have no problem with MDF at all, entry level cabinet manufacturers are not going to be wrapping MDF in a decent veneer. They are going to wrapping it in glorified paper.

  • 5 years ago

    Certainly NOT!!!