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blakrab

Texas Persimmon?

5 years ago

These various seedlings and small saplings were found at a park. They look a lot like Texas Persimmons, except their ~1" leaves look slightly, glossier, thinner, less leathery, and sparser. And the plants all just seem to be leggier than usual. Of course, they are also all found in partial shade in the forest along trails, so that could also explain their rangier growth for sunlight? Their leaves do still have the characteristic, slight convex rim extending downward, and some also have the typical Aceria theospyri/Eriophyes theospyri (Persimmon Leaf Blister Galls).







So, are these actually Texas Persimmons (Diospyros texana), or some similar analog?

Comments (6)

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Pretty sure you nailed it, and it is Diospyros texana. I mean those gall mites don't feed on any other species but, and everything else fits. Compared to other photos, the leaf texture. sheen and quantity look normal overall. They prefer part shade.

    blakrab Centex thanked Jay 6a Chicago
  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    OK, well I wasn't quite sure because most of the ones I've seen further south around the Austin area and west of it have thicker, more leathery leaves, thicker stems, and are far more densely-leaved...making them quite stiff to the touch.

    But these have thinner leaves and stems, and are quite leggier too - with a much lower leaf density...making them quite flexible to the touch at the ends.

    However, I have finally verified that these are nonetheless still Texas Persimmons, due to numerous characteristic seeds found underneath them. Not to mention, some of the larger specimens (up to maybe ~8" thick and ~17' tall) have the characteristic, smooth, sculpted trunks with some peeling bark...

    So Texas Persimmons they certainly are - but perhaps of a slightly-different, local subspecies?

  • 5 years ago

    There's no mention of a subspecies or variety anywhere that I've seen. This park where it is. do they have lawn there? Could they be using herbicides there? It could be the condition of the soil they are growing in at this park.

    blakrab Centex thanked Jay 6a Chicago
  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    https://youtu.be/o36JmGjUNW4

    Peckerwood Gardens is now The John Fairey Garden in memory of John Fairey. Adam Black now longer works at the garden, but is still involved in many projects including a genome project with the Smithsonian.

    blakrab Centex thanked Jay 6a Chicago
  • 5 years ago

    ^^^ No, these are growing on craggy, limestone (some in clay) hillsides in the park. Which is where the typically grow - in rocky limestone. And I'm pretty sure no herbicides are ever used there...


    It could be possible that since they are amongst other trees (as opposed to open scrubland) here, they may have to stretch more for sunlight, perhaps?


    ^^ Well dang, I was daydreaming about discovering an official subspecies! :D


    But now, I do wonder if they get leggier at the northern end of their range, and denser at their southern end? For example, here is one found down west of Austin:

    And here's one I had bought from west of Austin (not sure where it was originally sourced from, though). It's been trimmed back as a hedge...but even before so, it was still just as thick and dense...

    Another interesting difference is that the specimens in the wild here have dropped a LOT of their leaves (mostly only some left on their upper stems), while this one above has hardly dropped any.


    The weird thing is that ALL of the ones in the wild here look like each other...and do seem distinctly different than the denser ones down south (where I haven't found any of these leggier types). So, while there may be a spectrum here, it does seem to be distributed regionally...and not just randomly within any given population.