A quick Google (I don't use manure fresh) shows that fresh chicken manure is a fertilizer with "0.5% to 0.9% nitrogen, 0.4% to 0.5% phosphorus, and 1.2% to 1.7% potassium."

So sure, you can use it fresh even without making a tea if you want to. I wouldn't use it on a vegetable garden, and I'd use it in places where P and K are needed, but...yeah, it looks like a decent fertilizer.

If you're trying for biological activity, as in "compost tea," the key there is more "compost." :-) We can argue that one all day, but water temperature, proper aeration, they all impact what happens, so the quality of the resulting product will vary widely--but it does start with compost.

I've always been puzzled by compost tea, in that the presumption is that nutrients are actually very soluble. At least in well-finished compost, it turns out they aren't very soluble. A lot of work has been done on this with regard to leaching potential of nutrients from compost. The best compost for gardening is actually that which doesn't leach well. If it leaches well, it may not retain the nutrient content. But if it doesn't leach well, your tea won't have a lot of nutrients.

I too don't use uncomposted manure, just because of the threat of disease, but once composted, just dig it in!

Ditto. I didn't bring that into the discussion as I'm...dubious at best...about compost tea. If you want the nutrients, feed it organically. If you want the biology, add the compost (or feed it organically and wait a bit; the biology will come along for the ride). If you want compost tea...water doesn't hold a lot of oxygen when warm, so what exactly good is it doing in summer (or late spring or much of fall for that matter)?

But if compost tea is somebody's bliss, far be it from me to criticize. I spray soap on everything and nobody...well, almost nobody screams at me about it. And at least that cleans leaves and kills aphids, spider mites, and removes a lot of minor fungal infections.

I'm also not a fan of digging in compost in any large amount unless I'm really sure it's absolutely ancient, but that's another story as well.

Well, Jerry is asking about manure tea rather than compost tea. To answer his question, I wouldn’t use fresh manure tea on tender young plants but on established plants it should be fine. Use on veggies would depend on what the veggies are. Is it worth the effort? It will dilute it some to prevent burning and will help to disperse it more evenly.

tj

I should elaborate a bit. First, about compost. The composting activity burns off most of the easily available nitrogen. What's left is buried in the lignins and cellulose. The nutrients in those are released gradually as they break down in the soil with bacterial and fungal action. You won't get much in the way of nutrients out of lignins and cellulose by having a tea party with them. Lots of argument about whether compost itself is actually a nutrient. The answer is ... sorta. Unlike chemical fertilizers, you don't get any "right now" nutrients from compost. But you do get some in the long run as the compost digests in the soil. As noted, the amount of nutrients in compost is small, but we always use a LOT of compost!

That being said, fresh manure DOES have a lot of soluble nutrients. Urea in particular, which is a powerful source of plant-available nitrogen. As noted, the nitrogen concentration of uncomposted manure is substantial, and applied to plants directly it will burn. I guess I'd have to say the same about tea made with it. So if you use it, do so carefully.

But fresh manure is not a very healthy thing to put on edible plants, and fresh manure tea is going to be that as well. Salmonella and Campylobacter are human-unfriendly bacteria that are regularly carried by healthy chickens, and chicken manure tea is going to be rich in them. Both are killed at modest composting temperatures.

Exactly. Flower gardens, lawns...fine, as long as one isn't neglecting hand-washing techniques and wants to go to the effort.

"Use on veggies would depend on what the veggies are. Is it worth the effort?"

Veggies? It really doesn't depend on what the veggies are at all. Never use any manure on anything you're going to eat without sterilizing it first.

"and applied to plants directly it will burn."

I'm going to take slight difference to this. :-) I use pure urea (46% N) in many places. You can...in small amounts (the lawn gets 2.2 pounds per thousand square feet). Similarly, manure, in small amounts, wouldn't burn (chicken manure at up to 100 pounds per thousand square feet would be fine). So if one dried it, pelletized it, and scattered it thinly, for instance, it would be fine.

Or, having some experience with the rear exit of a chicken, power-sprayed it at very high pressure through a rough sieve. That would be OK, too, if you get it fine enough. I'd rather the dry stuff as it wouldn't stick to the lawn and cause a potential burn there, but it would probably be fine if irrigated or rained off shortly thereafter.

Slop it on the way I slop on soybean meal (7-1-2) and you're more likely to have a problem, though. My soy doesn't have anything in terms of fast nitrogen.

“Veggies? It really doesn't depend on what the veggies are at all. Never use any manure on anything you're going to eat without sterilizing it first.”

A bit extreme, I’d say. We’re not talking about dousing the plants, just applying to the soil. Corn would gobble that N up...or would that be turkey manure. ;-)

tj

Worth adding that "aged" manure is not the same as composted manure. Aged manure is where you just pile it up for a few months and let it sit. That will get rid of the urea that can burn plants (and also the soluble nutrients), but it is not safe to assume that pathogens in an aged manure pile have been destroyed. Real composting is where the pile is kept moist and turned so all of the material is exposed to heat.

"A bit extreme, I’d say."

I wouldn't. But best of luck to you and those who appreciate that comment. You'll probably need that luck, unfortunately. We're discussing disease bacteria, not N.

No arguments there, although I've always been slightly dubious about the risk minimization after some months; composting manure for months doesn't eliminate all disease bacteria, so I don't assume that populations zero in the dirt after several months either. It doesn't take a lot of salmonella bacteria to make a person severely ill, so "minimization" is a real issue.

Given all the salmonella outbreaks just with basic salad mix, well...

This is not about proof (which any of us can find easily online as I did after a two second search). This is the point where I discontinue that part of the conversation because it's fallen far outside of science and into a simple personality conflict that I don't choose to bother with.

That's a fair point. Even well-turned compost piles usually have some pieces that never got completely turned in. I'm always somewhat hesitant about using composted manure. In fact, the compost I make is entirely leaf compost. I don't use it much, but the bio-solid (e.g. sewage sludge) soil amendment marketed around here by the city (we call it "Dillo Dirt") at least is tested up the kazoo for pathogens.

Ditto with Milorganite and OceanGro, the national and relatively-local equivalents. They're listed as fine for vegetable gardens, and they're not something I'd worry about. I might still be a little squicked out, but it wouldn't bother me overmuch. :-)

Generally, in the flower gardens, Milo and soybean meal are both the order of the day. The iron gives good color, and the soy is a good overall feed to begin with.

Honestly, if I were inclined to want "manure," I'd probably go with Milo.

(How's that for a severely roundabout conversation?) At 5-2-0, it's a great feeding, pathogen-free after being kilned half to death, listed as fine for vegetable gardens (and recommended by the touchiest sources even around here).

Realizing the chicken manure here is probably free and Milo is not, but...

Better that than three days of illness from salmonella and three days of leftovers. Or up to and including death from some of the others.

Or more than that if you find out you have an immunodeficiency or background condition along the way. And yeah, death isn't the worst thing that can happen to you... :-)

Really? What's worse than death?

I have a suppressed immune system caused by Lupus and then again by the treatment, Hydroxycloroquine which is always referred to as Plaquenil. I use well aged and composted horse manure in my veggie garden. Lots of it. I dig in 3 inches to raw clay and add some each year. But I do it with a little thought.

It's old, The pile I'm working I've been working for a couple years and nothing has been added. It's maybe 20 feet high.... on an angle. I grow root crops in soil that I prepared the year before. 6 months before I plant in it. Same with low growing plants. Lettuce and Spinach. I wouldn't eat fresh lettuce with splashed manure. But then again my corn is up 2 to 3 feet so I don't worry about it there.

I don't worry about drugs in the manure as I just don't think they use them many times in a year. And I've been led to believe that leaving the manure in the sun will minimize that problem, but I wouldn't argue that point. I've never had problems with seed germination or growing problems, quite the contrary I get lush plants with great crops.

As far as manure tea I figure the manure in the soil will make it's own tea, but I'd let the chicken manure age and compost at least till spring. My 3 x3 x3 foot pile of part horse manure part mushroom manure has been cooking this month it's January and it's cooking in PA.

"Really? What's worse than death?"

Passive-aggressive people.

"My 3 x3 x3 foot pile of part horse manure part mushroom manure has been cooking this month it's January and it's cooking in PA."

I can believe it. :-) Do you measure pile temperatures or just let it go? Will it continue to cook in next week's expected near-zero temps or take some time off?

Personally, I still wouldn't use it even with a completely normal immune system, but...you're composting it fully, letting it age...you're taking a lot of care and seeing your doctor regularly, obviously. It's not something I could do here. So no manure. :-)

"Do you measure pile temperatures or just let it go? Will it continue to cook in next week's expected near-zero temps or take some time off?"

The last time I dug into the pile I could see the black manure with white pieces of what might be broken chopped straw. And it was steaming. I never measure temps, just judge it by the appearance. Don't know if it'll continue in lower temps, but I don't think it'll take a trip south. I would think that a similar sized pile of fresh manure, any kind, will cook much faster.

If it's steaming, it's hot enough. Current temperature is 22° out there in my neck of the woods, so that's plenty warm enough if there isn't a Tonton to cut into to keep warm. (Yeah, a Star Wars joke, whaddaya gonna do about it)?

My current compost pile is frozen solid, but it was the fall garden stuff. It finished primary composting in early November.

"As far as manure tea I figure the manure in the soil will make it's own tea"

Precisely. Same with compost in soil. When it rains, you get tea. No work required. As noted, fresh manure tea probably has leachable urea, which is a powerful source of nitrogen. Less so with composted manure, and very little from composted plant material. Some people swear that compost tea seeds soil with useful bacteria. To the extent it does so, then why brew tea? Just dig the compost in or heave it on top.

Do you have chickens, Jerry? I have a favorite way of dealing with the manure if you do. I employ the deep litter method in the house. I start with a clean house each spring with about three inches of shavings. If the manure starts to build up, or smell, I cover with a couple inches of fresh shavings through the summer. I like to fork it over, but it's not necessary. In the fall, the coop becomes a compost bin of sorts. I use bags of chipped leaves along with the bedding and the chickens get copious amounts of apples and pumpkins to scratch around in all winter. I might also use shavings, if necessary---again for odor. The depth of this bedding can get to be almost two feet, and sometimes it heats up.

In the spring, I clean out the coop and at least half of the material is used on ornamentals as mulch. The other half is kept in a bin outdoors until I put it in a new bin in the fall mixed with other ingredients. That bin gets cooking and is used on vegetables the following year. The chicken manure is at least 1 year then, and has been run through two compost systems, one hot, one not.

Aged manure is probably more effective.