Thorns and cane colors are variable and coming on to the cane thickness,it will get thicker with age so your new plant might as well be an older ebb tide.

Bart, if you could show us some photos, I know we could be of more help. I don't recall my three Ebb Tide plants having any burgundy colored canes, but I could be wrong. Ebb Tide does have thorns, but is not excessively thorny, like say, Munstead Wood. The canes on my Ebb Tide plants are of moderate thickness, but are not wimpy or floppy. Here are some more pics of my Ebb Tide plants. I know you've seen a few already on another thread. Good luck. Diane

Thank you so much, Diane. Sadly I have no camera,so can't show pics. The plant in question is thorny on it's thick canes, but it has a smaller branch that is less so. The thorns seem to be curving downward, as if it were a climber, yet when I went out to look at my last year's ET (just planted out this fall,and definitely the correct variety), I was rather surpeised to see that it, too, has some down-ward-curving thorns,but the colour of the canes is definitely green, not burgundy-ish like those of the new rose. It is very confusing, because it seems to me that colour of canes of many roses can vary according to atmospheric conditions and other factors. Likewise the amount of thorns can vary on the same plant-for example, older wood can be thornier than younger growth. So though on the third photo of your first group I can glimpse a bit of cane and thorn , I'm not sure that this can prove or disprove the possible identity of my plant.

Maybe I can get my DS to take a picture of my plant and hopefully I'd be able to figure out how to post it, because I think SOMEBODY out there that is more familiar with ET than I am might be able to recognize the identification as right or wrong...

My Ebb Tide has very few thorns, neither on the old canes or the young ones. Sorry, forgot to check if they were pointed downward. And the canes are green. It also doesn't tend to make super-thick canes.

Yeah, at this point I'm not very optimistic that my plant was correctly labeled. What a shame, and what a waste of money. Why can't I learn????

But re-reading Jay's comment,a spark of hope alights within me...I DO have the impression that colour of canes and thorniness can sometimes vary ...

Well, today I compared my 2 Twilight Zone plants. The older one I had planted out in my garden, but it was struggling, so I potted it up; it is now going own root. My new TZ , from Barni, is grafted. This new one has at least one thick cane, and it is a lot thornier than the thinner canes-especially the thin ones on my older, own-rooting plant. If nothing else, this does seem to confirm the validity of Jay's comment.

Oh, Bart, I hope you love your latest Twilight Zone; it's my favorite purple, and I think, or have a hunch, that most dark purples need to be grafted. Diane

While I agree with what Diane said in general, I will say that I have had an own-root Midnight Blue for >10 years (cutting from. friend) that does fine. And OMG Diane on your Twilight Zone! It's been on and off my list for years, but never quite made it. Probably need to re-think that!

Yes, Diane,I know what you mean: these roses ARE kind of special. Most roses of these intense, dark colour are only once bloomers. Note that both of my "wimpy" older potted plants of ETide and TZ started out as grafted, but I planted them out too young and then, seeing them struggle,potted them up. I have too many pots and can't/don't care for them very well, plus, often when plants in my garden "struggle" it's because they have started going own-root , so by now these two formerly grafted roses are young own-root plants.

Bart, I wouldn't know if any of my purples have gone own root. I've grown Ebb Tide (three) since 2006, and the only change I've noticed on these very healthy roses is that they no longer change to magenta in our dry heat, but instead just fade. Twilight Zone keeps its color nicely--in the hottest part of the summer it might be a little lighter, but never magenta. I've grown it for years. They reliably rebloom well. How would one know, without digging up the rose, that it had gone own root over the years? I had an Evelyn go own root, plus start a second Evelyn nearby, but I only figured that out after digging them up. I've never grown a rose in a pot, and don't think I'd like it at all, especially if I had to trundle it into our crowded garage during winter. Good luck with those Ebb Tides. Diane