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jlew1960

Mini Split Brands - which one to select?

5 years ago

I'm in the process of building out my walk out basement for an airbnb and am planning on either a 3 or 4 head mini split system. I have determined to use the ceiling cassettes because of the slim line look, air throw capacity and range and minimal reframing needed to ceiling joists. So I'm looking at Mitsubishi, LG, Daikin, Gree and Fujitsu. I can accommodate the height of each as they do vary but leaning towards Gree - 36k btu condenser, 12k btu x4 cassettes.

My rooms are; bedroom - 183 sf, kitchen/greatroom - 545 sf (17' x 27'), bathroom - 110 sf. My plan is to use 2 cassettes for the kitchen /greatroom due to the limited throw of a 18k btu unit if mounted dead center.

So here is the question - which brand based on longevity, performance, etc?

Comments (30)

  • 5 years ago

    Here is a comparison of mini splits. The author may be biased, but it is interesting.

    Gree is made in China and for that reason I would avoid it. Mitsubishi and Fujitsu seem to be dominant suppliers.

  • 5 years ago

    Find HVAC contractors in your area with the best references, credible ratings, and who are too busy to do the work in the immediate future. Get bids, pick among them, and use whatever brand the one you choose recommends.

  • 5 years ago

    Of course Daikin, they offer 10 warranty years for their products.

    https://www.minisplitheat.com/


  • PRO
    5 years ago

    Find HVAC contractors in your area with the best references, credible ratings, and who are too busy to do the work in the immediate future.


    Yeah because when a cold snap or heat wave hits your HVAC system breaks down you then get to enjoy the heat wave or cold wave thoroughly because the contractor you bought from is always busy? The question is why they are busy? call backs?


    Mr. Fudd lives in California. Most of the time California climate isn't like the rest of the nation.


    Ah the humanity.... gotta love how some people think. Seriously?


    I service the Katy, Texas area.

  • 5 years ago

    Are these minisplits for AC only, or for heating also? If the latter, then what is your coldest temperature, and how well will they work at that temperature?

  • PRO
    5 years ago

    Basement applications don't usually represent much heating or cooling load. In our (coastal VA) area, I find that a dehumidifier is an essential component of any basement HVAC system. A dehumidifier really shines when the dewpoint is high, but the indoor temperature is still below that which would call for air conditioning. It improves comfort and reduces the potential for mold and mildew.


    If you go the ductless mini-split route, the challenge will be humidity control in compartmentalized spaces. I suggest you invest in professional HVAC system design before you select any equipment.

  • 5 years ago

    For both heat and ac, I’m in Knoxville, TN and we can get into low teens. I’m thinking Daikin because of their warranty but height on ceiling cassette is a tad too tall but I can make it work. Gree height is perfect, Fitjitsu doesn’t seem to make the ceiling cassette and Mitsubishi is way over priced.

  • 5 years ago

    If this is going to be your only source of heat, you must address the minimum temperature for a heat pump, and plan to have electric resistance supplemental heat. I guess electric rates in Knoxville are pretty low, because it's TVA region!

  • 5 years ago

    Did you see this note on the website I provided:


    *NOTE: 12-Year parts and compressor warranty require units are installed and registered by select manufacturer approved contractors. If installed by non-approved contractor warranty reverts to 5- year parts, 7-years compressor.


    If the warranty is your main criteria, then understand the conditions thoroughly.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Austin, if I read correctly, the person's need was not for an emergency call but for a construction project.

    In the two geographic areas I know best because of my own periodic need for tradesmen, urgent calls can usually be accommodated promptly but the best contractors/tradesmen in all building trades are booked-out for non-emergency work. Name the trade - generals/builders, plumbing, HVAC, electrical, roofing, carpentry, painting, etc, all have a backlog. For some it varies somewhat with the season but the most highly sought after ones are always busy. Why are they busy - they're in high demand for their reputations for quality work and often also for their integrity. They have far more work available to do than time and manpower to handle right away. Word of mouth marketing, satisfied customers tell people they know and it snowballs.

    If a homeowner has a project they want started in a few days or next week, the contractors with lesser reputations have plenty of time available. Cause and effect, there's no puzzle as to why.

    You say you're available immediately?

  • PRO
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Well Mr. Fudd that might be the way it works in mostly mild California.

    We've got similar so called always busy contractor's here that are known for shutting their phones off when the work load is too heavy. (30 day 100+ heat wave)

    Air conditioner's mostly break when it's hot. It's a numbers game... there aren't enough techs to squash that demand when it's 100 degrees outside.

    How exactly do you think I exist? I'll give you a hint... it's called service.

    In a service business? yeah the irony is like off the charts crazy.

    I service the Katy, Texas area --- it's an in person business... no way around that. What does comfort mean to you? That's the question you need to ask yourself.

    All HVAC brands have low scores when you look to review boards that aren't censored in some form --- most rank under 2 out of 5 stars. Why do you think that is?


    This situation isn't going to be getting better? Because watch the video below...






  • 5 years ago

    There are several cities in California where the summer design temperature is 110 degrees. If you compare all the data between California and Texas, California has more 100+ degree urban areas.

    There is a shortage of qualified HVAC techs. If there were available they would be hired and making a good living.

  • 5 years ago

    Ray, I watched your video and reversed my opinion about you to slightly impressed.




  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    kevin, you comment triggered my curiosity and I looked at parts of the video. People can see for themselves but I didn't find it to be interesting or useful. Mostly misinformed.

  • 5 years ago

    I'm a commercial HVAC company guy and if it was my house it would be Daikin followed closely by Mitsubishi. I have installed ton's (pun) of Daikin and its solid equipment with good tech support and replacement parts are readily available. Daikin and Mits have better than most low ambient operational temp's without losing capacity. Beware some of the others will say they can heat down to 0 degrees but will lose capacity below freezing. Daikin also has a baseboard style unit that we have installed and its pretty slick for spaces without ceiling height. We Installed about 30 of those in a historic church sanctuary and it turned out great.

  • 5 years ago

    Golly Elmer, do you have the mental capacity to follow a complicated scenario of events involving a phaseout of Hydrofluorocarbon refrigerants? Seems some HFC's are 1430 times more damaging to the climate than carbon dioxide by unit of mass they say, but only contribute 1% to globe warming now but will grow 10 to 15% per year. So they want to nip it in the bud, but the oddity here is nothing has been identified to replace the HFC's, and has become a political clusterfudge with a little capitalism thrown in for a topping.

    So it goes like this, a Kigali Amendment was added to the Montreal Protocol which originally phased out HCFC's to save the ozone. Good deal, right? Well a court ruled that the Fed's could control ozone depleting gases through the protocol but not global warming gases. So a bill or legislation or something is needed to let the fed's mandate the phaseout of HFC's also but has yet to happen. Ok, here is where it gets good.

    So a few individual states started adopting the Kingali amendment which started the phase out in 2019 and one is your state. hahaha.....can't help it hahaha.... But there isn't a replacement and it starts a slow ban of certain new equipment using the old HFC. Industry won't address new innovation unless the entire country adopts the agreement then they get to sell new equipment, but again California is up a creek without a paddle, and I do believe we have a catch 22 here.

    Ray wasn't misinformed, or giving misinformation and everything he said was easy to verify and give him credit to bring awareness to the issue. Again your state has created a problem for it's residents putting them behind a political agenda without a solution. So phaseout or not, I don't care, but I found one candidate to replace R410a is R744. It's an old refrigerant and was replaced by R22. OK, I'm laughing hard now but R744 is liquid carbon dioxide or if frozen dry ice. The deadly gas California fears the most, so will they allow the stuff in? You can't make these things up and now people are praising R744 as the gas that will save the environment. How can you NOT find this topic interesting?




  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    I appreciate your concern. I don't tend to seek news nor political advice from tradesmen and when I saw the whining that was involved, I lost interest.

    People aren't going to stop using air conditioning nor will the industry go away. I don't have interest or concern about the details and if I did, I'm one of those "fools" who knows the difference between real information and baseless propaganda aimed at people who are often, sadly, too dumb to know better. I'm not name calling or saying who is what. I get my news and analysis from pros who are trained to do that for a living.

  • PRO
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Ray, I watched your video and reversed my opinion about you to slightly impressed.

    Kevin thanks for that, thanks for watching. But as you know impression doesn't serve much. You highlighted the reason why and that is to bring attention to a topic that is going to be a hot button issue in a short time. Most will be unaware until the time comes, a ticking time bomb if you ask me. No matter what side of the political aisle you are on.

    Why is everything so political? because politics is in charge of rule and law setting. I am a legal business that follows all rules and laws, building codes etc. Everything involved with that scope is decided by: politicians. It's political by nature. When laws are passed, I am forced to follow them.

    Build Back Better? what they are choosing as a replacement refrigerant is only "marginally" better than R410a. It's not R744 for home air conditioning at least not yet. It's critical temperature is too low. Pressures are too high. To use R744 for air conditioning application I doubt I will see it in my life time if that tells you anything. (over 50 now, tick tock)

    I'll get further into what refrigerant choices there are as of 2021 in the next video topic likely part 2 or part 3 to the series. There is a really, really good refrigerant... for central air conditioning but it has problems with serious implications. I'll be discussing that too.

    Thanks for watching, the goal in this video series is good information... the what, how, why, when, where as how we got to this point. With obviously my opinion thrown in. You don't have to like my opinion, I have it for good reason. So keep that in mind and you'll have a much more clearer picture why as the upcoming parts hit my youtube channel.

  • 5 years ago

    I think I'm beginning to understand why he's so scornful and dismissive about hearing of contractors of all types who are busy and booked weeks in advance. He seems to have plenty of available time.

  • PRO
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    LOL, it's off season for me. Sure there's a good cold snap going on now... which can be interpreted a multitude of ways for someone like me and my company.

    1. I am so good, that the problems my customers have are minimal at best. Hard to imagine for a one man business huh?

    In about a weeks time, my climate for the area in which I serve (Katy, Texas) will be back in and around the 50's for lows and highs in the mid 70's or so.

    Easy for a scornful 'mostly mild' Californian to understand? Right Mr. Fudd?

    My HVAC company is 13 years old this year. If I can make it 13 years on my own... well do the math.


    But I thought you said 26 years? yes, total time in HVAC industry. You don't just wake up one morning and say: 'I'm going to be a licensed HVAC Contractor today.'


    He seems to have plenty of available time.

    Yeah, the moniker of great fast HVAC service. You have to have the time to provide it. Choose carefully, my fellow ice cubes.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    "baseless propaganda"? There wasn't a single item stated to warrant such an irresponsible response. Dismissing a truthful message and then attacking the messenger in such a patronizing manner is a common protocol for one living as a cartoon character elitist in a faux fairyland euphoria so it wasn't offensive and expected.

    You're right, people aren't going to stop using air conditioning but at some point many will lose the entitlement to use it. Some prefer to stay ignorant to a lot of things while they sit in front of the air conditioner with total complacency, unaware their entitlement is on the chopping block. It's all by design so Lets jump back 10 years,

    California seeks control of thermostats and then three years ago Let PGE control your thermostat and last year. PGE time of use plan. In this case the past has given a picture of the future, and 82 degrees will be the setting because they swallowed the propaganda from their masters, but the funny thing is California told everyone what they're going to do 10 years ago but the free cool-aide was so sweet it was missed.

    By the way 18,000 businesses have left California over the last 10 years and Oracle and Hewitt Packard are in the process of moving out. HP was the first Tech corner stone in silicon valley and will be a sad day for California but those 2400 good HP jobs aren't needed in the state, right?. Close eyes, click heals together 3 times.

    Jim Lewis thanked outpaientzero
  • 5 years ago

    Well gentlemen, like any good conversation, when politics is inserted, things go south real quick...or folks leave Californis real fast. And if I said that I'm the great grandson of Thomas Migley Jr. - son of Satan some would say, I would get booted from CA which I gladly left in 06'. Anyway I digress, I'm looking at Senville equip., any feedback? And forgive me I don't recall who mentioned about me nor having a "rule of thumb" contrator size the heads - thanks! The more I research this stuff, the more I'm looking for a knowledgeable person to consider all the factors beyond the size of the rooms - hitting a wall on this one!

  • 5 years ago

    Unless you have a good set of blueprints on the structure with all the schedules and detail drawings it would be hard for anyone to help you here with a high degree of accuracy . If you did provide all the data needed maybe someone with a good software program can help but doubt you'll find one here willing to work for free. I don't have one and I honestly don't feel up to doing on a manual input to a J manual worksheet even if I had the data.

    Long shot but but maybe Ray Austin of Austin's air conditioning, who services in the Katy Texas area may be willing to help, but his time is valuable. I mention him because it's his off season as he said and may have the time, so give him a call. The number is in his video inserted in this thread.





  • 5 years ago

    "California seeks control of thermostats and then three years ago Let PGE control your thermostat and last year. PGE time of use plan."


    Awesome analysis and search results!. If you look again or read it with better comprehension, you'll see that the article is about Portland General Electric, in Oregon. And is an optional program sponsored by the utility itself. This comment shows as much misunderstanding as in your other comments. Sorry but you're very misinformed.

    California's economy, the largest in the nation, is strong, continues strong, and things are fine. When companies move their "HQs" to other states, it's usually done for tax reasons and rarely involves much in the way of job relocations.

  • PRO
    5 years ago

    From what I've gathered from Austin Aire Companie's posts over the past couple of years, they are a HVAC service company. I don't think they do new construction installations. Accordingly, they won't be a good resource for design. The OP will be better served to find a HVAC designer with experience designing for their climate zone.

  • 5 years ago

    Respectfully, Mr Fudd, your input is duly noted and I would appreciate that you no longer comment on this thread. You are commenting on topics that are beyond the initial intent of the question put forth. Thank you!

  • 5 years ago

    Hey Kevin 9408,

    By no means would I expect anyone to assist me for free. I need to employ someone who knows their sh#*! so I can move forward. I have no need for the hvac contractor who kinda sorta knows what to do - they are a waste of time and money.

  • 5 years ago

    I've had my say. Good luck to you.

  • 5 years ago

    You will get no compare and contrast from me, but only a comment on one company. I am impressed with how much trouble-shooting information Mitsubishi puts out there, documents and videos. I've been able to get parts pretty readily as well. This is all important if you want to do some work yourself.


    I am probably going on ten years with the Mitsu system that I have (7 in 3 out). I've replaced an indoor blower motor and the same one of three boards in the two 24k compressor units. I've been able to take care of all that myself although it was a fairly demanding learning process. (I am a lab scientist so I am used to figuring out how stuff works, both nature and equipment.) That board is obviously a weak link since both failed. (The third unit is larger capacity and takes three connections rather than two and the boards are different.) The second time around, I took the board to to repair guy that has experience in VFDs and he fixed it for half the cost of the new one.