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shacute

Large Tree Landscape

5 years ago

Hi I have a beautiful large Evergreen that feels empty underneath and around it. Removing the tree is not an option but I have no idea what to do with it. I’ve considered large rocks and annuals. Hydrangeas growing underneath slowly. Im in zone 5.

Comments (33)

  • 5 years ago

    P. Allen Smith just had a YouTube video about shade loving perennials. You might check it out to get some ideas, but he is in Zone 8a I believe. Other Utubers may have ideas more appropriate for your area and your dense shade. Maybe gardengal will show up here; she's good at this!

    shacute thanked decoenthusiaste
  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago
    shacute thanked everdebz
  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    "flowering ground covers, a good filler. Also, to choke out weeds, a ground cover must be vigorous. ... Consider Hosta, better-known as a foliage plant, with the H. Plantaginea variety thatbears nice flowers. Popular choice is sweet woodruff (Galium odoratum), which has white flowers and fragrant foliage."

    https://www.thespruce.com/what-plants-will-grow-under-evergreen-trees-2132655

  • 5 years ago

    That sort of shade is very hard to garden under. Not only is it pretty deep shade but it is also very dry shade as well, due to the conifer's canopy blocking rainfall and the dense root network soaking up any available soil moisture. You really need to focus on groundcover plants well suited to dry shade - epimediums, Geranium macrorrhizum, English ivy (if not invasive there), fernleaf bleeding heart, some ferns.

    I would not choose anything that prefers a moist soil to do well. And that would include hostas, hydrangeas and sweet woodruff.

    ps. The Spruce is a terrible source!! It is filled with all manner of horticultural inaccuracies.

    shacute thanked gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Hosta would look nice, but bunnies and deer find them VERY tasty. Japanese garden juniper can tolerate some shade and would look good year-round. I's tidy and less aggressive than many other creeping junipers. Cranesbill (perennial geranium) would fill in relatively fast and provide some flowers. I love periwinkle, and there's always lily of the valley. Not sure if your hydrangeas will be happy so far underneath the tree.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    gardengal, I didn't realize that, about TheSpruce... I noticed they seemed to refer to hostas as ground cover though...

    what about this other? "bulbs that will live a long time / dig among the tree's roots only once to have a spring show for years to come... crocuses, Siberian squill (Scilla siberica), glory of the snow (Chionodoxa forbesii), snowdrops (Galanthus nivalis) or tiny early irises such as Iris reticulata or I. danfordiae. Plant plenty of them.

    Though most kinds of spring-blooming bulbs prefer full sun, a few, such as Siberian squill, striped squill (Puschkinia scilloides var. libanotica), checkered fritillary (Fritillaria meleagris) and Spanish bluebells (Hyacinthoides hispanica) can tolerate partial shade. Some early-flowering varieties of daffodils also can do well under trees.

    Bulbs need well-drained soil. Plant the bulbs with the pointed (stem) end up and the flat (root) end down. If you can't tell, set the bulb on its side; the plant will find its way to the surface."

    shacute thanked everdebz
  • 5 years ago

    All those spring bulbs want sun when they come up and bloom. The shade under that spruce is the worst kind of deep shade. You could plant some bulbs at the perimeter along the tree's drip line, maybe go a bit under it on the south facing side. Deciduous trees and bulbs are another matter.

    shacute thanked Christopher CNC
  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Low branching conifers like yours don't have anything growing beneath them in the first place because the situation is just not suitable for companion plants - you are in for a struggle if you try to create and maintain a full and lush looking planting there. If it were me I would spread some attractive organic mulch - or even some other covering like cobbles - beneath the tree and leave it at that.

    By the way in the second shot I can see the tree is being made bare inside by spruce aphids or one of the other problems that causes premature death and dropping of Colorado spruce needles outside of their native area and places with similar climates. This may in fact be why the bottom layer of the spruce was otherwise unfortunately cut off in the first place - it had become thin and shabby looking.


    shacute thanked Embothrium
  • 5 years ago

    It is very expensive to have a tree removed, but eventually this will need to happen, especially if diseased. Also the disease may spread to other trees nearby. Removal and starting a new tree allows for re-evaluating your landscape.

  • 5 years ago

    Anyone else think the soil or mulch is piled too high round the trunk?

  • PRO
    5 years ago

    What kind of tree is that. Some palnts do not like cedars for instance I love perriwinkle for a ground cover but it can be invasive . Hostas are usually a good choice and multiply quickly in your zone and so many different ones to make that space interesting . IMO the tree is too close to the house and must block a huge amount of light. BTW instead of all those little pots taking up space on the porch why not get to work on landscaping out from the porch . Hydrangeas need sun so not a good choice . I honestly would have that tree removed


    shacute thanked Patricia Colwell Consulting
  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    give your soil around a year to balance the pH before planting anything.

    fairly well under evergreen trees include Azaleas , Woodland Sunflowers , Hostas , Jacob’s Ladder , Lily of the Valley , and Ivory Sedge .??

    I don't understand shrubs though, whether azalea, or hydrangea.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    ? The bronze color of its emerging “fiddle heads” and young fronds gives this rugged fern its common name. Autumn Fern is a tough woodland plant that withstands dry conditions and deep shade. Zones: 4 to 9

    shacute thanked everdebz
  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Here's a list of native plants to various areas that grow under conifers. I love ferns under conifers--that's where you see them in a forest. But it depends on your soil and climate.

    https://nativeplantherald.prairienursery.com/2013/04/native-plants-that-grow-under-pines/

    Driveway Entry Planting · More Info


    And there's this (or some pretty bench)



    Contemporary Deck · More Info


    shacute thanked housegal200
  • 5 years ago

    Lots of inaccuracies in this thread :-) As stated several times upthread, not much of anything will grow successfully directly under the canopy of a large conifer - no azaleas, no hydrangeas, no woodland sunflowers, no lily of the valley. Not even vinca (periwinkle) or hostas will thrive in that location, nor many bulbous plants. All want evenly moist soil and some sun to encourage flowering. What exists there is dry shade and pretty heavy shade at that and you need plants that will tolerate that growing condition and that's a rather short list.

    Also the needlecast that affects blue spruces (the tree in question) so badly is encouraged by poor climatic factors that exist outside of their primary natural range. They just do not do well in most parts of the country. And like most plant diseases, the needlecast is pretty host-specific so very unlikely to affect any other trees in the garden.

    And I don't understand the intent of this statement: "give your soil around a year to balance the pH before planting anything". An explanation would be helpful as pH has not entered the discussion previously

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    In addition to the homeliness produced by the scalping of the bottom of the spruce it is also leaning away from the house in an unattractive manner - cutting the tree down and starting over with completely new plantings would present your house in a very much better fashion than retaining the tree does.

  • 5 years ago

    I think the tree should be removed.

  • 5 years ago

    It will be expensive to remove that tree. However, it might make a nice Christmas tree for your community, and if you donate it, they might come and remove it for you before the holidays.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    it might make a nice Christmas tree for your community

    Not with the bareness visible in the second picture


  • 5 years ago

    It's a fine looking tree. Let it be. And as stated at the beginning, "Removing the tree is not an option." Instead of thinking of planting under the spruce, plant in front of and around it. That will give you more viable options with some height to hide the nekkid underneath.

    If it should become a town Christmas tree, they can just cut off the bottom three feet of trunk and all will be well. The branches will reach the ground no problem.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    I’m in Zone 5B. I have a pine and a maple growing side by side and I have Hosta, sweet woodruff and Solomon Seal growing under the pine tree. I actually had to split up the hosta last week.🤷‍♀️

  • 5 years ago

    Think about ground cover to surround your existing plants--wild ginger might be good. Check online and with a nursery for great ground covers for your conditions--zone, soil, under a conifer.

  • 5 years ago

    I have a few large blue spruces in my yard. One has Vinca Minor growing underneath. The flowers are beautiful, but iI think it can be considered invasive in some areas. Under one other spruce I have Coral Bells that are doing beautifully and a few Hostas.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    The soil level around the trunk does seem too high in the photos, although that could be just a build-up of many years of mulch applications. Addressing that volcano effect might improve the general appearance under the tree. I also think the limestone edging draws attention to the bareness under the tree. Although it's nice for mowing and helps keep the grass from encroaching, you might consider removing it and just using trench edging to keep the mulch contained.

  • 5 years ago

    Thank you everyone very much. When we bought the house, it was surrounded by overgrown evergreens against the siding, and we removed all of them. I will never understand why people plant like that.

    Based on your feedback, I transplanted the hydrangeas to our back garden that's fenced and safe from deer and sometimes rabbits :). petula67 and floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK, I raked the needles to uncover why it looked like mulch was heaped against it and found soil, and surface roots. I think the previous owner may have added soil to cover the roots for curb appeal sale. Christopher C Nc and decoenthusiaste, our neighbor told us that the previous owners used to decorate the tree for Christmas, and the kids on our block loved it. Embothrium, the leaning bothers me. Patricia Colwell Consulting, I want the tree removed, but arborist said it was fine so my husband is very reluctant to remove it.

    Based on all of your feedback, I've concluded that a combination of rocks and (maybe) autumn ferns are the best options until the tree can be removed. Thank you for your expertise gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9).

  • 5 years ago

    I was thinking, like the White House tree, they might cut it down for you and take it to the town center to be decorated for the holiday. Then all you'd have to pay for would be the stump grinding. Afterwards they can drop the tree in a local lake or river to provide habitat.

  • 5 years ago

    decoenthusiaste that's a great idea...thanks.

  • 5 years ago

    Fwiw, I think it's a pretty yard and were it me, I think I'd put some chairs under that tree and enjoy the shade. (Although of course safety should come first - if your tree is not doing well.) Great place to drink a nice cuppa.

    shacute thanked Need2SeeGreen 10 (SoCal)
  • 5 years ago

    Here's another, with quotation marks...

    shacute: how did you come to planting hydrangea? I'm curious since they mention it.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "All is not lost. There are a range of acid-loving plants that will thrive. As a rule of thumb, the farther out from the trunk you get, the 'better': rhododendrons, blueberries, bergenias, hostas, lungwort, lily-of-the-valley, and any juniper or other conifer,

    HYDRANGEA will thrive just outside the drip line, and the acidity will actually turn their flowers bluer ...

    If you don’t want to deal with the parched, acidic soil, try pots of colour. Impatiens, begonias, etc.

    submerge pots in the ground and fill with annuals. You would get the same advantage over acidic soil and water/ nitrogen depletion as you do with the above ground pots, but the illusion would be that – somehow- you’ve made Impatiens and Begonias thrive under a spruce tree!"

    ???

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Beautiful looking tree, but statistically speaking, this tree is a disaster waiting to happen if you get lots of lightnings in your area, since it is very close to the house. Yes it looks beautiful but safety was not considered when planting it. Sorry but you will need to consider safety too. Otherwise God forbid, we know for a fact that high trees attract lightnings and if that happens you will have a disaster. Also we have seen how roots of large trees can and have damaged pipes leading to the house.

    shacute thanked United Outdoor Services, LLC
  • 5 years ago

    This is not a landmark tree that sticks way up to draw lightning. In fact it is not even a large tree using any practical system of size category designation. Such as one that would call a large tree one more than 60 ft. tall.

  • 5 years ago

    My daughter has a beautiful bed of native perennial geranium under a very similar tree, also in zone 5. It competed out the wild ginger that she also planted.

    shacute thanked Yvonne Martin