provide the name of both Carrier and AmStd models models....straight AC or HPs? this could be the difference....if straight AC, are you replacing furnace?

TD

tigerdunes, it's a split system to include a new gas furnace. Please see info in attached photos. We were told by the company bidding the American Standard that it could be up to 3 months (no guarantee) to get it. The company bidding the Carrier said 7 days for his. The bid for the AS system is $10,700 which includes dismantling and putting the pantry shelves back together after install. The bid for the Carrier is $8,500 not including the pantry stuff involved. The Carrier proposal is far less detailed, but the bid includes complete install, also. Both bids include craning in the new unit. I see that the Carrier furnace offers more BTU's, but we're in the Phoenix area so we don't think that's a big deal.

Phoenix is a brutal climate, I doubt there would be little difference in brands.

All the brands have their issues, some may be marginally better here and there but fail over there. Other brands do better over there, but not so much here and there.

You're in a hot climate. Hot -hot... what destroys units and cause breakage? heat. Neglect fits in there somewhere. (improper installation fits in there too, you need confidence in who is doing the work. You're not buying a toaster (unless it's a package unit).

Equipment availability is quite the challenge circa 2021. If you need it, want it, it's available you better snag it before someone leaves you hot and sweaty.

I've been hearing some of these kinks may not get worked out until December or later.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

For OP

i would like to see the model numbers for the Carrier quote but I don’t see them in your hard to read post...maybe you could list them...however i don’t know about the pantry shelving and that particular cost. and the AmStd deluvery is ridiculous. if you writevdown and list the Carrier Mdl numbers, i will take a look and provide an opinion.

TD

If you click the second picture, you can zoom in and read the item/model numbers. Carrier's condensor model number is IN4A660GKB. The coil is IENH4X61L24A. The furnace is IN80ESL1102120A.

American Standard, which is the same equipment as Trane, and Carrier are about the same in terms of reliability. The efficiency of the equipment is based on the model you choose within each brand. Higher efficiency equipment costs more.

The model numbers you have posted are is made by International Comfort Products. It is part of the Carrier subsidiary of United Technologies. The focus of ICP is lower end equipment marketed under various brand names. Some of this equipment is very similar to Carrier's lower end products like the Comfort series. The build quality is not as good as Carrier's better lines such as the Performance and Infinity series. It can be a good value in some applications.

Did you get the second quote from a Carrier dealer, or someone who says the equipment is Carrier brand? Quoting a 110K BTU house in Phoenix is ridiculous in my opinion. I get the feeling you are being quoted equipment that is sitting at the distributor warehouse and can be installed quickly. The price and lead time are attractive, but it is not the same equipment as the American Standard nor do I get the sense the installer would be as good.

The American Standard quote is complete along with the the AHRI number. You can plug in the number on the AHRI Directory listing. If the lead time is a problem, then ask if there are other models more readily available.

Mike_home, yours is exactly the kind of information and advice I was hoping for. Thank you! I was already favoring the company that gave us the American Standard bid. Are you able to tell by the AS model number whether or not this is their top of the line?

The Carrier quote appears to be for Airquest equipment. This is pretty much bottom of the line - made by the same company as Carrier but very basic in every respect. Can't read the American standard quote so cant comment on that.

Cost-wise, I'd say that, without the kitchen work, they are on the high side. Don't know what's involved in the kitchen work though.

EDIT: Just took a stab at reading the AS system numbers. If I was correct then this is what they are installing: A4A7A7060A1000B, 2 stage, 16 SEER, 5 ton system. This is vastly superior to the Airquest equipment and might be worth the cost.

Condenser: A4A7A7060A1000B American Standard Gold series 2-stage

Coil: 4TXCC009DSH3HA America Standard 5 ton coil

Furnace: S8X1C080M5PSAB American Standard 80K BTU furnace 80% efficiency single stage

The condenser I believe is a mid-range model. It is 2-stage which is nice for the 5-ton size. In the low stage it will run at about 3.5 tons of capacity. The coil is American Standard and sized properly. I am not sure about the furnace. It is a single stage which is fine for heating, but I am not sure how it will work with the 2-stage condenser. In the low stage the blower speed should be reduced. Ask the installer how this will work. Perhaps in cooling mode the blower can be set to low and high blower speeds. The 80% efficiency is the low end of efficiency. This is fine for Phoenix, no need to spend the money on a 95% efficiency furnace.

I don't see a thermostat on the quote sheet. You need a 2-stage thermostat to control the AC. You don't want the stages controlled off a timer from the furnace.

Will the existing line set be cleaned and reused or replaced. Both boxes are checked off. I don't think you need to spend $795 to clean the duct work. The $10,400 price seems reasonable if a crane has to be brought in and additional installation work needs to be done.

My apologies. I posted the wrong estimate for the Americam Standard unit. The screenshots of this estimate is for the one stage and was bid $300 higher than the 2-stage. If you have trouble reading these model numbers, please let me know and I'll type them out.

I don't understand why the single stage AC would be $300 more and why would it paired with the AUD2C080 2-stage furnace. You need to ask about this. The single stage 4A7A606 condenser has a 13 EER rating compared to the 12.5 for the 2-stage. Not a big enough difference to go with the single stage condenser in my opinion.

mike_home, thank you for the info. I'll ask these questions and see what I can find out. We're planning to request an estimate from another company for the American Standard system. We'll see what they come up with.

They might have been careless with the model numbers on the estimates. The 2 stage furnace was probably meant to go with the 2 stage condenser and the single stage furnace with the single stage condenser. Be sure to confirm this, though.

May I ask what you might suggest for a mcm home 1952 not insulated in Southern California where temperatures are rising? We have about a 1,200 square foot home. Air vents are on the floor a few in the wall.. those farther away from outside A/C less air is thrown.. Looking for something powerful yet not going to cost an arm and a leg. Are American Standard and Carrier the best? We have an old Carrier that we bought in 1998 and it's now time to change it up. thank you...

Looking for something powerful yet not going to cost an arm and a leg. Are American Standard and Carrier the best? May I ask what you might suggest for a mcm home 1952 not insulated in Southern California where temperatures are rising?

You're gonna pay in California more ways than one. You're gonna have to insulate the house. This house wasn't built to be air conditioned. 1952 was before AC.

You're on a buget. You want the best. These are all factors that will determine how successful you may be.

What is the best? a name on the side of the unit OR what the unit will do for you?

Example: what do you pay for electric in good old California these days? 23 cents per KWH or is that too low? At these higher electric rates you're looking to spend some coin either way. Choose a less efficient unit an pay more for electric to run it OR pay for a more efficient unit that cost more.

Refrigerant: California has rules on R410a a refrigerant that is used by all AC equipment being sold right now. The rule? no more R410a refrigerant sales after Jan. 1, 2025.

So if these rules stand and your shiny new AC springs a refrigerant leak it won't matter how good or not so good the AC is. (Every brand is capable of springing a refrigerant leak)

If R410a can't be bought, you can't recharge or repair a machine that uses it. You will have to buy a new machine. There are additional rules coming that will change the nature of how R410a is sold in the future using recycleable cylinders that can be tracked. So if you think this is a Red Herring... just blindly continue on as you have. (courtessy of the VA Builder)

click to enlarge...

The above info came out BEFORE the release of my videos on the subject. The below video is a starting point as to what, why and how. Essentially it's because you voted or didn't vote and should have.

As always your mileage will vary... even more so if you live in California and on a budget.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

Hi, Adriane,

Sorry you got the usual California bashing from the aspiring cartoonist above.

For your climate zone, provided the duct work is in good shape, I'd consider a ducted mini-split heat pump. That would provide both heating and cooling, a high level of efficiency, and the turndown capability required when the outdoor temperature is only a little different from the desired indoor temperature. I've used the Mitsubishi ducted mini-split with good results.