FWIW, I grew both here in the PNW Zone 8b. Both were killed in the 2014 Polar Vortex freeze. I got the impression both were equally tender varieties. From a strictly vigor/performance perspective, 'Lamarque' grew better for me than 'Devoiniensis'.

Paul and RoseSeek--I appreciate your replies. I planted a Lamarque and a Cl. Devoniensis at the southeast end of the garden on the southside of a building in 2004. Both grew large and performed well. Devoniensis climbed onto the peacock house and from there into a nearby oak. I was thinking I would have to restrain it in another year, but a cold winter (I don't recall which) killed both to the ground. They survived, but are small now and do not bloom well because they don't get as much sun as they did in the early years after I planted them. Devoniensis still has the aspect of a climber while Lamarque looks more like a medium-size shrub.

I did have another Lamarque about ten years ago in the center of the garden on the pump house, but it died-- I assumed from cold weather, but voles are a possibility, too.

I don't need to add a new rose. There aren't enough good sunny places for the roses I have now, but since I have them, I thought the sunny place on the split-rail would be good if a tender rose could survive there. I admit I'm doubtful just from my own experience and Paul's experience only adds to my doubt.

Lindsey

@lplantagenet7AVA

My 'Devoniensis' actually survived the 2014 freeze, but came back as just a tiny twig the following two years, and then by the third, it was gone. I suspect that many of these large Tea types are fatally injured after a bad freeze, and they never recover. My experiences with Teas have led me to decide not to attempt them here again.

@User

Now that you mention it, many of my Teas have declined over time and eventually died. I may be at fault for some of the losses--putting them out too soon or keeping them in pots too long, but the climate is surely a factor--and most of my roses get less sun than they need. Exceptions are the spring bloomers which have plenty of sun as they break dormancy and begin to form buds because the trees have only small leaves at that time or no leaves at all.

My best performer this year was the Belle Isis I rescued from voles several years ago; it has canes 5 to 6 feet tall, was covered in big, beautiful flowers, and was the last to stop blooming.

If I were starting over, I think I would look to the hardier Europeans/European hybrids for repeat bloom.

Lindsey

What you described, Paul, happened often in Alaska. Some roses would outright die, but others got the dwindles and grew backward over time and petered out. Here, I wasn't sure how Teas would do since I am not in California.

So far so good, but I got here the year after that Polar weather event and there were temps down to 0 F for a week here by report from that Polar Vortex. If that happened again my Teas could be in trouble. Or, it could get so hot, like Ingrid's area in So California, that it is too hot and dry for them too.

I would not have expected to hear of problems with Teas in Zone 8. Was the 2014 polar vortex in the Pacific NW the exception or have others in Zone 8 had similar experiences? For Zone 7A, the lower limit is 0 to 5, although several years before I started growing roses we had -12.

I have heard that rapid changes in temperature are as damaging or more damaging than actual lows. It is not unusual for temperatures here to drop 40 or 50 degrees in 24 hours.

Lindsey

I am in zone 7a (almost in 6b). My Lamarque is growing on a front porch column that faces southeast, mostly in full sun but gets dappled shade at various points during the day from hardwoods growing in the front yard. I have had it for four or five years, but so far have not detected any impact from colder temperatures (only occasionally below 20 degrees and lasting less than 24 hours). It is vulnerable to the winds coming to the side of the house from the northeast because the columns are on the edge of the porch, but is protected from north/northwest winds. I don't have any experience with Devoniensis.

Your experience is encouraging, although the past few winters have been less severe than normal for 7A--and a winter when temperatures drop to zero or below for several nights and don't rise above 10 in the day would probably produce very different results. I suppose the question then is whether to take the risk that winters will continue to be mild enough to enjoy the beauty of a rose like Lamarque in an exposed location. Lamarque is one of my favorites with China ancestry--I think the only contender for my #1 choice (among those I've had or seen in that category) would be Devoniensis.

Lindsey

@lplantagenet7AVA "I would not have expected to hear of problems with Teas in Zone 8. Was the 2014 polar vortex in the Pacific NW the exception"

Yes, the 2014 freeze was an exception. Its FAR from typical to have 8 days in a row where temps do not go above zero F. Nights got down to MINUS 14F for that entire time. Many tender plants of all sorts of species died that week, all up and down the Valley.

However, even before the 2014 event, I found that nearly ALL of the heirloom Teas I planted here underperformed quite badly unless they were planted in one of the open ended greenhouses. We have cool summer nights here, always. Night temps never stay above 60F (with VERY rare exceptions) and I suspect the Teas simply found it consistently too cool here. 'Mrs. B. R Cant eventually got to 6 x 6 feet, as did Mons. Tillier, but those were the only two. All others grew to maybe 18" or so, and then grew backwards and died. Even in the greenhouses, HUGE Teas like E. Veyrat Hermanos perished in the freeze. It was 18 feet across when it froze.

So I think its very hard to say what you should expect. Our climate differences are significant. Relying on the USDA Zone system to determine climate-worthiness is far too blunt a tool, IMO.

@Paul Barden

I can remember prolonged periods of extreme cold here but nothing quite so extreme as you describe in 2014, but all of our extremes predated my rose garden.

It sounds as if the greater differences between your climate and mine occur in summer which is hot and humid in central Virginia, and that includes night-time temperatures in the upper 60s and 70s. Most roses here do little in high summer when Japanese beetles are also a problem. By mid-August they begin to set buds again and fall bloom can rival spring.

Lindsey