how frustrating! if im understanding the previous layout correctly, why did they chose to place the new cooktop opening on the right side? why not line it up on the left side? do they claim their ”policy” actually says they align on the right side in cases where the old and new cooktops are not the same size?

Oh lord. Maybe you should have specified but 99% of cutouts for sinks and appliances are centered on the cabinet below. When they aren’t there are lots of big arrows involved (I did a bath with two sinks where they are off center of the door below to allow for larger drawers, I think I signed the template)

On the one hand, what they did makes absolutely no sense at all and they should have initiated a conversation about the placement.

On the other hand were the measurements for the cutout written down on the on the template you signed with it in the incorrect location and did you check the measurement yourself? Because if you signed it, you may not have much recourse --you "approved" what they said they were going to do.

If they don't make this right, I would be posting pics of the installation everywhere I could think of

@A G they say they lined up the center of the new cooktop with where the center of the old one was (not right or left edge)

@palimpsest the template we signed was very general, with only the badic measurements. it gave the length of the counter but did not spec the length from end of counter to end of cooktop. In the diagram, it looks correct. in reality, what they did was closer to centering it on that back length (98“).

Is that what you were shown? Do over- no centerlines marked nor the dimension of the cutout. This is how they learn.

This is completely on them, have your attorney write a demand letter that they make corrections or you will send them the bill (net) from the person you hire to correct it. This installation is so unreasonable that I would advise a business to get a specific disclaimer on this were you to actual want it installed that way. There are a dozen different ways this could and should bite them in the rear.

Honestly, I would give you specific details but it is a waste. Their position is so far from reasonable that it is indefensible. I don't care what their normal procedure is, they have to produce typical results and have a duty to warn you when they can't. That is all...

I don't have anything helpful to add regarding the placement of your cooktop. Just chiming in to say I love your floors and cabinets and the shelving with the reeded glass! Hope you reach some resolution with the countertop installer!

Hi larahale- I know you don't like it, but other than the visuals of it, why does it have to be centered? It doesn't affect the function whatsoever.

I don't know who is in the right here.

If everyone says you are in the right, maybe they can give you a credit on something else you would like done.

It seems like every time I open the kitchen forum, the first page has a similar story of a so-called professional making crazy dumb mistakes like this. I mean come on! How do these people stay in business? They never take responsibility and it is always the customer‘s fault too. I would not pay them a dime more unless they completely redo it right. If they refuse to fix it, I would them tell them to return your money and take their ridiculous counters and…. well you can word that however you see fit.

On a positive note, it is wonderful to hear that you are restoring the original mcm kitchen!

It sounds like you’ve come to an impasse. If you prefer to handle this yourself rather than hiring an attorney - tell the fabricator in writing (email & hardcopy) that they must correct their goof by a certain date. And if they fail to do so, you will hire another fabricator to redo the counter and deduct this cost from the balance owed. Then do it.

I hope the amount withheld will cover it and you don’t take a loss. What happened to you is exactly why balances are paid once the job is complete and the customer is satisfied.

It is on them, exactly as per Hallett. above

However. before you re do? Please get a kd. I am sure you have your reasons for the "rise/shelf/cubby area behind. I see only a grease issue, .......clinging to wood stain. Show the entire kitchen please?

This isn't the first top the've eaten from a mis-centered appliance/sink and I doubt it will be the last. Their "policy" is gibbeish. Tell them to make it right, or bring your down payment in cash and take their tops away. Give them another week or two.

The mistake and correction are theirs after seeing that template, which does not have adequate information on it, in my opinion.

Honestly, even if the template had the placement of the cutout on it, I would still take this to small claims court and believe it has a fair shot at winning. I would argue that this placement is so atypical that it meets the requirements for conspicuous notification. Counters are goods governed by the UCC and there are several protections for conformity and quality built into the UCC, any disclaimer that removes those protections is required to be conspicuous and a simple measurement that doesn't show the top in relation to the cabinets would probably fail that requirement.

@larahale - The problem in these situations is not being right, it is always getting the other party to agree that you are right without spending so much money that the entire endeavor is pointless. So, in my opinion, the demand letter is the spot where you need an attorney most of all. That is your best chance at spending $200 - $300 to make this thing end quickly, as it shifts the power dynamic in the negotiation. Having said that, every company is different, some people want to fight and will not back down before going to small claims court on something like this.

Good luck

@JAN MOYER Thanks: I do have a reason for the cabinet behind the cooktop: it’s original and I like it. that reeded glass slider was one of the little features that made me fall in love with this house. Im not interested in changing the cabinetry, just wanted a new countertop. there are no signs there has ever been a grease issue to the glass or wood. thanks for the advice though.

Following for the resolution. OP, I would be livid as well.

Verbo posted on the wrong dilemma. Ignore it.

Verbo posted...Ignore it.

I fixed it...

Here is your argument that can not be denied. From the layout drawing they centred it on the back 98 instead of on the front 94. Fabrication problem-no doubt and no argument in my opinion their drawing is proof. To make sure I am correct double check it in reality.

@Lorraine Leroux you are correct and ive pointed that out to them, only to be told the drawing was just a guide for my reference and not a technical document. So why have me sign it? They are just trying to wheedle out of it in any way they can think of.

So why do we have them template?? Are homeowners and dealers supposed to double check each and every dimension? I think certain things we must sign off on: for instance; sink cutout and reveals; cooktop cutouts; overhang amounts; color of material; edge profile; radius or beveled corners...etc. But they are there for the dimensions to make sure it fits. What they are telling you is ludicrous! Don't pay the balance...ask for it to fixed or uninstalled with full refund.

when I say cutouts....I mean verify the sink and cooktop model numbers and cutout SIZE...not the location.

I agree that the fabricators are just coming up with excuses, probably because they didn't even think about recentering, they probable just measured to the right hand side of the existing hole and added 30" instead of 36", and now they are trying to cover up for it.

That said I check and recheck everyone else's measurements, because I think mistake making has gotten more and more common as no one does anything completely by hand or mechanically anymore. And no one is involved from start to finish at some of these shops: the salesman comes out, you discuss the issues with him, he doesn't report them to anybody and you never see him again. Someone comes out and templates, and it may not even be the same people who come out and install. And instead of acting like a team, none of them communicate with each other at all.

I am working with a national manufacture of a specific type of door jamb assembly, and they have recently added milled doors to their catalog. They use concealed hinges and you used to have to buy the door slabs separately and set up jigs and such and it was tedious.

Anyway, so I am doing a full height door. The first quote came back with a hinge size and number that they do not recommend in their own literature. The second quote came back with the hinge size corrected but a jamb size that did not correlate with the door they are selling me in thickness. So I could have gotten a door assembly with hinges not strong enough to support the door, or I could have gotten a door assembly with properly sized hinges plus a door that was too thick to fit in the jamb.

And all of these things are little numbers in little boxes and this was just one door, I can't imagine if I was doing the whole house and there had been mistakes like this on every door. It took weeks to sort out. And if I had signed off on it I would have eaten it, because I already had to take a jamb with mis-sized hinges from them already (luckily too big rather than too small), and it was because I missed it and signed the quote.

And the culprit of that mistake was really the computer. You can accidentally change something on the menu without realizing it, and since nothing is written by hand anymore it gets missed.

You hold the power. If they want the rest of the $, they have no other choice but fix it to your satisfaction.

Worst case, they refuse to fix it and refuse to refund your deposit by the reasonable time frame, you keep the material installed in your home.

Fortunately, it looks like a solid white quartz. The botched side probably can be replaced with the exact quartz by another fabricator and still match up with the rest of the countertops that seem to be installed ok. Hard to imagine the remaining balance would not cover it, but you could sue for whatever you are out.

Even if they do end up fixing it perfectly, because they were such jerks about it, causing you stress and time, I’d still blast the pictures and reviews all over the web!

This is totally on them. I just had a situation for a job I just completed in which a shower ledge was being fabricated out of marble, just like the counter top. I even went down to the stoneyard to approve the taped out template on the stone. And somehow, despite the approval, the ledge was fabricated and installed using the quartz we were using in the other bathrooms. I called them on it and they immediately de-installed and re-fabricated using the correct material. On their dime. It's OK to make mistakes. What's not OK is not owning up to them and making it right.

I am a fabricator. If the document you signed shows the cooktop where they put it then you have little recourse. That is why fabricators give customers the drawings to approve. However, if the actual part is different from their drawing then it's a redo for the fabricator. If the drawing supplied was ambiguous, which seems to be the case, then it's on them. Additionally, the centerlines for sinks and cooktops are very important dimensions so their drawing is also deficient for not having it.

"the centerlines for sinks and cooktops are very important dimensions so their drawing is also deficient for not having it."

Agreed. This is a major fail. Could have been an oversite or could have been you had an inexperienced template measurer. Expanding businesses have to be careful. Measure 2x, then the boss measures and checks.

Even were the center line marked I would still take this to small claims court and give it a shot. I suspect at worst it is closer to 50/50.

Countertops are a fabricated good and therefore governed by the Uniform Commercial Code. The UCC has several implied warranties that might come into play here. The implied warranty of merchantability says that goods will be of typical quality, craftsmanship, and design. The implied warranty of fitness for a specific purpose says that if a specific purpose is known the goods must be suitable for that purpose. Any disclaimer of these statutory warranties must be conspicuous and can't simply appear among the normal details of the contract.

In small claims court, I would argue that these tops don't conform to the typical design standard nor do measurements without any reference to the cabinets meet the requirement for conspicuous. I would also argue that if the OP actually told the contractor that they were ordering the "proper size cooktop for the cabinet," then they knew the specific purpose and the onus is on them to ensure their fabrication meets that requirement. Finally, I would argue they had a duty to double check this, a professional should have realized that a cooktop, capable of fitting into a single cabinet, should be in a single cabinet.

I would walk into court with testimonials from a dozen counter manufacturers that all say they would absolutely double check this layout before fabrication. Provide the judge with their contact information and let the judge call. I am not sure I would win, that is just the way small claims court goes, but it is a solid and winnable argument.

ETA: Services are not governed by the UCC so experiences in small claims court that don't involve manufactured goods or merchandise may not be applicable here.