Tell your paint store to add 1 oz of white tint per gallon of chantilly lace. It doesnt change the color and covers much better. You csn even add 2 oz per. It makes it cover much better. Have done it for years!

Apparently you can ask for "the Chantilly special". They drop some black in it and it's not detectible but helps with hide.

Lengthy discussion about CL and whites that require many coats in a post in The Women in Paint Facebook Group.

All walls in my house are being painted in Chantilly Lace as I write. If I could do it again, I’d pick a different white, probably BM Oxford White. My painter says it’s going to take one coat of primer and three coats of Regal paint minimum, maybe four coats to cover.

Check if your painter is using enough paint. If they are using the appropriate amount of paint it should provide coverage with 1 coat of primer and 2 coats of any color paint that is using the white base including Chantilly Lace. The bulk of the opacity comes from the base not the added colorants.

Measure the square footage of a room, have the painter start with a fresh gallon of paint and see just how much they used to cover the room. I think it is 400 - 450 sf / gallon

@jenniferhogan Thank you!

When I painted my aunt’s house Chantilly Lace took primer and three coats of Regal Select for 100% coverage. Two coats looked passable but I convinced her to go with another coat after rolling a third coat on half of a wall. The third coat next to two was a noticeable difference.

I forgot to add, this was over a somewhat dark gray (Sherwin Williams Repose Gray). Lighter colors may get away with primer and two coats.

@ Mark - my test that I did was a black stripe on white drywall using just the base, no colorant added, measuring the appropriate amount of paint for the area being covered.

Lighter colors may get away with primer and two coats.

Odds are unlikely.

The reality of Chantilly Lace in actual application is bigger than just the fact that it has poor hide.

What we're seeing is noticeable color difference when mixed same product, different sheens. A solid color strategy is to use the same color matte/eg walls satin or semi trim. My advice is don't even think about it with CL.

There are SO MANY other color options. Chantilly Lace isn't worth the hassle or upcharge that most pro painters have learned (the hard way) to charge.

“@ Mark - my test that I did was a black stripe on white drywall using just the base, no colorant added, measuring the appropriate amount of paint for the area being covered.”

@Jennifer Hogan there’s a massive difference between getting coverage on a little black stripe and getting the same consistent amount of coverage on an entire wall. I could cover a little bitty stripe with two coats of Chantilly because the amount loaded on the roller/brush would be a lot thicker going on that small area than it would be if I were rolling an entire wall. Imagine taking a yellow highlighter and coloring a white post it note yellow. Now, imagine taking another highlighter and doing the same thing on a giant sheet of paper. Same principal.

Well. Lori will bust a gut laughing, and come back with all the reflective values...and why it doesn't work.

But my go to because of this? A formula created from two Ben Moore stock colors. Two thirds Decorator white, ONE third Linen White

It is fool proof for cabinet white, foolproof on walls. It's all the clear effect of Chantilly and none of the coverage hassle. Matters not matte, Regal Select . It virtually always covers in a primer and two coats. Over another white? It looks good after one coat, but I always do two, so a non issue.

Have learned the hard way in time and labor with a fanatic painter. At some point you need the painter OUT of the house.

Another laugh? When I want softer I reverse it. Two thirds linen, one third decorator.

Both became the two best selling whites at my old cabinet company...twenty eight years ago after I b$#@@$ that "this is too icy, and this damn thing is too yellow and this is just not riiiiight".

Chantilly and Simply white, especially on trim, is akin to taking a half cup of cake icing, adding a gallon of water and expecting a NY Times feature for your chocolate cake. Hope ya like tan, lol

@ Mark If I took an 8 1/2 x 11 piece of paper and drew 1" squares on the page and slowly and carefully highlighted each square I should get good coverage. If I just run the highlighter willy-nilly over the paper I am going to have streaks and thin spots and spots that were overly saturated.

When I paint a wall I am loading my roller and spreading the paint, covering a space no larger than 3' square before reloading the roller, making sure to reload before I need to apply additional pressure to the roller to get coverage.

I am a data scientist who measures health outcomes for Medicare Recipients. If I am testing something I wouldn't just fully load a roller to use on a 10x4 section of drywall. I wanted real results. I described my methodology when I posted my results.

"Okay, got tired of guessing, so I painted a piece of drywall.

Put a primer coat on

Taped off and painted a black stripe across then entire piece.

When that was dry I painted the whole piece with another coat of primer and taped off evenly spaced sections. 10"x4"

I measured and applied 2.5 ml of paint prior to rolling with a saturated but rolled off foam roller to ensure that I was applying the appropriate amount of paint to each section for each coat.

Did some test runs weighing the roller before and after painting to make sure I wasn't adding or removing paint with the roller. (Chose foam due to the ability to have a more controlled saturation level)

(2.5 ml/40 sq inches= 9ml per sq ft = 415 sq ft per 3.736 liters/ 1 gallon)"

@ Mark - the reason I tested this was because the idea that a specific white wouldn't cover failed logic.

The titanium dioxide in the base is the most opaque colorant there is. Any colorant you add to the base will make it less opaque.

So why would those paint colors with the least amount of colorant added need more paint to cover than something with more colorant and lower opacity?

Try painting white paint over bright red paint and then bright red over white paint. The white will cover much better than the red. The white is far more opaque than the red.

BenM, BEHR, SW, Dunn-Edwards, all of them have a slightly different Tio2 profile.

Tio2 is not equal across brands sometimes it's not equal across tiers within the same brand. And it's somewhat fluid. When there's an alteration in Tio2, Safety Data Sheets change also.

BenM and BEHR are -typically - whiter than SW or DE. SW is yellower. DE grayer.

That's the main reason (second is colorant set) why some colors cross brands more gracefully than others. e.g. Getting a clean BenM white from DE is futile but it's also (partly) why DE can market 10 High Hide Whites.

Stars have to align for Chantilly to be passable after 2 or even 3 coats: Ideal substrate, higher solids top tier like Aura or Regal, 3/8 or 3/16 roller because CL is so thin 3/4 stipples and leaves holidays almost like a faux finish and lastly application by an experienced painter.

Call any Independently owned Benjamín Moore store - literally anywhere in the country - and ask for their advice about Chantilly Lace.

Not a single one will tell you to count on it hiding in two coats.

@Lori A. Sawaya thank you. I’m not sure why people who are beginner/novice painters at best are going against professionals that have literally been painting their entire life as their craft that state Chantilly is horrible for coverage. Chantilly Lace is extremely popular in the Chicago area where I’m at. Every single professional painter I’ve dealt with here will tell you how bad this color is to work with and to expect to be charged for at least an extra coat minimum. I’ll go with the anecdotal evidence from my experience, professionals I dealt with in real life, and from thousands of professional painters on forums and Facebook groups on this one.

Why indeed, Mark. Because some people think that they are experts in everything, and have no problem proclaiming it for all the world to see.

Some people think because they get paid to do a job that makes them an expert.

Just because I don't get paid doesn't stop the local paint stores and local real estate agents from giving out my phone number to people who need assistance with selecting interior colors.

I may not paint homes for a living, but I have a collection of over 500 8 1/2 x 11 paint samples that I have collected from the people I have helped pick colors. I have been a hobby artist working with oils and acrylics and alcohol markers and pastels and other mediums for 50+ years, went to cosmetology school and learned about skin tones and hair colors; studied color psychology when working in behavioral health and have studied color science because I enjoy color and love math and became fascinated with how our minds find color combinations pleasurable when they follow geometric patterns. But I am simply a hobbyist and have no real knowledge because I am not paid to roll paint on a wall.

But wait a minute: Faron79 makes his living in the paint industry and what did he have to say below?

"Oh Boy.....

* There are obviously 1,812,473 Colors that are tinted into "White-Bases". ;-)

* It is BEYOND RIDICULOUS that a handful of those "White Colors" could MAGICALLY change a VERY OPAQUE Tint-Base into one needing 4 coats!!!

* It SIMPLY ISN'T POSSIBLE.

* "People are being told....". >>>> Wow.....that sounds like "Proof" right there! (EXTREME Sarcasm here btw!) . . . "

Ive been painting pro for 14 year CL is a nightmare colour and flagged at most stores becaue the coverage is horrible. we can talk tips and tricks all day long. the surface of the wall, the primer, the paint, the amount of paint being used. (if a customer questioned me about how much paint i was using i would consider them crazy)

best case scenario. walls are already a flat. i would use something slightly higher in the lrv . id would tint the deadest flatest ceiling paint for my primer. some primers dont cover at all and the finish isnt flat. then i woule cross my fingers with 2 coats of a good matte.

i never promise a client number of coats with CL and ask them if they really love it because i could cost them

for me. the best colour is always one that covers in 2 coats. i want all my jobs to go as planned so i can not be delayed or have to push my next project.

Brad lcal -

if a customer questioned me about how much paint i was using i would consider them crazy.

Why? Are you sure you are coating to specification? Do you ever estimate the number of gallons needed and have left over paint at the end of the job? I have measured, calculated and specified the number of gallons to get appropriate coverage and had clients hire a painter to do the work. When the painter is done there are gallons of left over, never been opened paint. That tells me that they didn't use enough paint.

i would use something slightly higher in the lrv .

For what? The primer/ceiling paint? What ceiling paint are you getting that has a higher LRV than Chantilly Lace?

id would tint the deadest flatest ceiling paint for my primer.

Wait - didn't you want the highest LRV? Won't tinting lower the LRV? What color are you using to tint the ceiling paint?

Why Ceiling paint? Do you have an advanced degree in chemistry and have determined that from that vast knowledge base that ceiling paint seals as well, blocks stains and odors and provides the same adherence as primer.

some primers dont cover at all and the finish isnt flat.

You are correct that some primers don't cover at all. I am using Gardz on old plaster walls that had 70 year old wallpaper and nicotine stains. It is clear and dries to a glossy coat, but the yellow stains won't penetrate through the surface and cause problems with my top coats.

I have some trim that I am painting that have tannin bleed. I am using BIN. Ceiling paint wouldn't do anything for tannin bleed.

For non-problematic walls I use 123.

Bin and 123 have great hide.

But, you are a 14 year veteran in the painting profession - I should trust your judgement over science based evidence.

Spread rate of the paint can differ depending on the surface its going on. most new houses are sprayed second coat rolled but they use flat paint super dry takes new paint very well. absorbs more. you use more paint

painting over a semi gloss will be the opposite.

lets take lvr out. certian tints help coverage. like black. yellows and deep golds do not.

applying paint to me seems easy . you want a smooth finish. applying to much can cause some slight texture.

i love bin. its now to expensive snd to harsh for most home owners. paint stucks very well and bonds instantly. i would never recomend it for this type of application though. we are talking for colour change. im saying ceiling paint bevause its flat and hides better.

do i have a degree in chemistry? no but i do know how to talk to people and read. so again we are talking about its ability for a colour change. good luck to you and in your research please get some people skills

"But.......I've heard >>> statement X <<< from many people over the years, so I assume it's 'Fact'".

There's a million "Parrots" out there.

Faron

Brad Ical, don’t bother. Apparently her anecdotal “scientific test” trumps your 14 years of being a professional painter lol. The pros that use Chantilly Lace and comment on how horrible the coverage is are wrong and she’s right (sarcasm).

Not sure why she is here if she knows everything lol end up painting for people like this sometimes. always a pain

I am answering here because there are people like you who are passing on information that has no scientific basis and doesn't make any sense.

Why would the same base 1 (opaque white) paint cover better or worse based on a particular formula of tint being added to that base.

A can of Regal Select Base 1 paint has 126 oz of paint. I don't have a can with the formula for CL, but it most likely has less than 1/2 an oz of tint. That means that it is minimally 99.6% base paint and 0.4% tint. (This is like adding a tablespoon of water to a gallon of milk).

This little bit of tint in the particular combination that makes the color Chantilly Lace destroys the covering power of the base 1 base paint. Any other combination of tint works just fine, but not the combination that creates CL.

Yes Jennifer......

Apparently there's something about the very minute formula for CL, that "POOF" ..... destroys the ability of the 1X Tint-base to maintain its opacity!!!

Maybe it's "Evil"?! 😂😈

HUNDREDS of Colors go into that base!!!!! Yet.........the mysterious "CL" color is "The Devil's Work". Something cursed results from this particular combination of colorants. It's "Black Magic" I tell you!!!

PRAY for those who choose &/or apply this color!!!! Better yet......RUN FOR THE HILLS! SAVE YOURSELVES from this dreaded color!!!!! Maybe this formula makes TI02 disappear?!

🤓😜😂😈🤣

Faron

Apparently I am the only one here with a good experience with Chantilly Lace, I don’t know what my painter did, my whole interiors are CL (walls, ceilings, and trims), I’ve been in my house a little over a year and I haven’t seen any problem with the color, people actually always make comment about how can it look so pristine white. My french doors are iron ore and I remember there was a lot of iron ore sprayed around in the wall too, it is all well covered with CL. I am glad I didn’t read this before, because I would be afraid to use this beautiful color. I am more convinced now my painter is amazing.

Here's how to reach out to Benjamin Moore directly if you have concerns about choosing Chantilly Lace for your project.

Do not call the 1-800 number.

Best bet - contact an Independent Benjamin Moore Store. Make sure you select "Authorized Plus". https://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/store-locator?q=85323 Like this:

If you're a color pro reach out to your rep: Painters or Architects & Designers

Reps can refer you to a Field Representative. Some Field Reps are actual chemists and/or have coatings certifications; my experience has been most go above and beyond to answer questions, provide documentation or just advice.

I almost hate to bring up the fact that there's 4 different formula's for CL. It depends on which BM product you're going into......Ben, Regal, AURA, Advance, 1/2-pint samples, etc. Each one has a different "Last revised" date too! This is straight from my COLORx Software, & tinted with my big COROB D600 Tinter!

Faron

The only time you'll ever see $35,000 worth of 2 COROB's side-by-side!!! You MAY be able to tell which one is 15 years old..... ;-) We got the new Tinter when Ben-Moore products came into ACE Stores. We could'a converted the old girl, but some of the 16 pumps were getting hard to keep in calibration.

The new "Baby" of mine has 4 all Stainless-Steel pumps with Ceramic coating inside. I think it was an additional $500 per pump. The "Oxide Colorants" need a more durable pump.

Why am I bringing this up??!?!??!

I don't play around with Paint, OR my equipment. And....I DO have some idea about what I'm talking about after 22+ years.

A little further back, with the initial set of BM when it came into our store....about when covid started:

Faron

Or you can just make a formula of two stock colors, 2/3 Decorator white, and 1/3 Linen white, and have none of the issues of coverage, and a nice bright clean white on walls, cabinets and in whatever Ben product and finish you desire.

You really don't need the oh so magical "Chantilly".

I've used that for about 33 years.........My Ace named it: ) can't remember what .

When I want something a bit creamier? I reverse it. Lori just passed out - I'll have to rip out about two thousand miles of cabinetry lol and correct the error of my ways.

No I didn't.

Because I can respect the fact that I'm not the only one on the entire planet with decades of experience in architectural coatings.

You do you.

Hi Fun-C!!!

In spite of our rare difference on this one issue, I hope you're doing well professionally, & are busy!

Thought I'd say Hi 🥰 !!

I hope Jan M. & everyone realize that, in the case she just brought up, that the formulas & blending of colors........are only teeny drops of Colorant different.

These colors all go into the same VERY OPAQUE White 1X tintbase. As you "move down" the 2X thru 4X bases, each one is LESS FULL.....AND has less TI02 proportionally.

If I put the formula for CL into the 4X base >>> THEN <<< everyone would (correctly) be screaming about the coverage/opacity!!! You could apply 7 coats & not be happy.......

Critical-thinking people.......apply critical thinking!!

Faron

But Faron, they say it is true, we must believe!

@Fa Knapps could you find out which brand and grade your painter used? (Ben Moore, aura, regal, Ben, ultra spec???)

Did you paint chantilly lace and was it fine? My hardware store said it’s the most sold colour they have so surprisednto read this

Ohhhhh...this is why I've hated the whole white paint thing for at least 20 years of comparing the shades and undertones. When we finally started some major renovations with all new windows that needed painting (including muntins), I had to panic pick a color that was way before I knew what my kitchen design. I picked BM Chantilly Lace to be "safe" and neutral (much of house faces west). I then begrudgingly defaulted to the same color for cabinets and all-house trim. Now, I'm worried as the trim is about to be done. My painter wants to use SW "CHP" on the ceilings instead of BM Chantilly formula. Not sure I should agree to this, but if CL has such bad coverage, maybe that is okay? Or, he offered CL in the "Ben" matte formula for twice the cost. I'm so lost. Wish I had gone with my first pick, BM White Dove for windows, cabinets, and trim, but at the time, it looked dingy and yellow-ish, especially in the afternoon western light.

If what you have already works for you, and you like it, I would use the same paint.

@yalemichmom - I know too many people who used White Dove and found that it felt dingy and ended up re-painting.

Did the painter say SW CHP or CHB? I don't know what CHP stands for but CHB is Cheap paint that you don't want anywhere other than your ceiling and I wouldn't even use on my ceilings.

https://discover.hubpages.com/living/Sherwin-Williams-CHB-Paint-Review

Chantilly Lace does not have bad coverage, but it does need to be mixed in a BM paint. Ben isn't terrible, but it also isn't the top of the line.

SW offers bigger discounts than BM to paint contractors. SW has some nice whites. but the ones that are brighter white, like Chantilly lace are only available in the Emerald Line.

I wouldn't go cheap on the paint - just means you have to get it repainted that much sooner.

Thanks so much, Jennifer Hogan—sorry my appreciation is late. I mistakenly typed a “P” instead of a “B” for “CHB.”’ I agree and am passing on the SW CHB. Painter did a test board of it and BM Waterborne Ceiling paint in CL—we like it a tad better. I know all white ceilings will look a little grayish blue (typically for a ceiling white), but the SW CHB looks a tad more gray to my eyes. And, I am surprised my very talented painter even suggested flat BM “Ben” for the ceilings as an upgrade. It’s a big job, and I’m sure I’ll cringe at the up charge for better paint, but I hope to not have to paint again.

Paint colors are such chameleons. I have White Dove in a sunroom--south, east and west exposures. It's warm and lovely, not dingy or gray at all. But when I tested it in my north/northeast facing dining room, it was cold and stark. Go figure.

There are no "best" any color paints. The truth is any color needs to be tested in the room with the light that exists, there are no shortcuts.

I would rather spend more on the paint and have it what I want than go cheap and regret it.

If I am going through the trouble of a larger project I would much rather go with the best ingredients/materials. I just bought yarn for an afghan. There were less expensive yarns available, but if I am putting in the hours of labor to make the afghan, I am not going to try to save a few dollars on the yarn. Same when I am baking. Why bother to spend the time baking a filled pastry and use a cheap pre-made filling?

Ben Moore flat on the ceiling......Decorator White or Chantilly works 99% of the time.

I would sell a child I don't have, before I'd use "ceiling paint"

Looks the color of that awful cheap toilet paper from recycled whatever! ..........like dirt blown over a white car.

"I would sell a child I don't have, before I'd use "ceiling paint" "

@JAN MOYER - thank you for starting my day with a good laugh! You do have a way with words!

Lmao!! Glad I brightened the day with a laugh, but honestly,.... ceiling paint IS the same grungy white as that horrid T.P!

Oh…. there are days I’d sell my “adulting” kids for far less (Joking! Good thing they don’t follow Houzz, yet. They’re too busy spending their recently earned money on lattes and chais to afford a home!)

Jan Moyer, you made my night. We decided we would, minimally, insist on a flat Benjamin Moore paint for the ceiling tinted to Chantilly Lace, but when you suggest “Ben Moore flat,” would you push for the newer (think it’s newer) “Waterborne Ceiling Ultra-flat” or just the lowest level they offer: “Ben” flat wall paint? “Ben” grade/formula was his alternate offer. The Waterborne is more expensive, it has a slower dry time, some special additive called, “Genex,” and splatters less. Interestingly, he sampled BM Waterborne Ceiling Paint (not Ben).

I agree the SW CHB sample looks like cheap TP.

The Chantilly Lace was noticeably a bit warmer in certain light, which my husband and I preferred.

Thank you, Jennifer Hogan, too. I like your baking and afghan yarn analogies in regard to quality materials. I do have an excellent painter this round, but I think he wanted to save me some money. I had a past painters
who would color-match my BM selections. Never worked out as he said it would. Another tried to pass a match off as BM! Always wanted to paint when we were out-of-town. The last round, I told him I wanted to see brand new BM cans from our local store. I stuck around and monitored to make sure all cans used were indeed BM Aura Bath & Spa (for Master Bath) as specified. Sad to have to do that, but I felt forced.

Painters don't switch your Ben to SW to save you money. They switch to SW to make more money. For themselves. You want an accurate quote? Get one for time and materials. Not one for the "job" with "I use Sherwin Williams".

I have not used Waterborne so I can't tell how good it is, but for ceilings it doesn't have to be super durable/washable but does need to be flat so you don't see seams and things that are on our ceilings. Most ceilings are not perfect and any gloss will enhance the defects. Waterborne is supposed to be really flat.