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Beautifully renovated kitchen is freezing

3 years ago

Our 1920’s stone home was gutted and converted to HVAC in the mid-2000’s. At this time, the kitchen was renovated beautifully and expanded to include a breakfast area over a vented crawl space.
A few owners later, the house is now our forever home and we’ve discovered that in winter here in the NE, the kitchen gets bitter cold. We know we need to encapsulate the crawl space, but it’s small and crowded, and insulation venders don’t seem eager for the project.
We know the very-reputable architect of that 00’s renovation specified radiant hydronic heated floors in the kitchen, but don’t know why that wasn’t done.
Multiple contractors have pushed full kitchen renovation, but with small children abusing it, and a baby on the way, we’re not ready for another 5-10 years.
So we’re considering:

  1. Install electric baseboard heater in breakfast room and spray foam crawl space as best as possible from below. Multiple vendors required- need to remove HVAC ducts temporarily and remove some plywood so insulation vendor can access. Contractors hate the idea of baseboard heaters - are they functionally bad or just cheap/ugly? ($)
  2. Install radiant hydronic floor heat in breakfast room, requiring new flooring, but I assume enabling better access down into crawl space for insulating. Maybe include capacity for other rooms in future?? Bare feet in winter sounds like a dream but is it worth it? ($$)

We have ample budget but want to be cost-effective. What would you choose?

Comments (11)

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    If your "very-reputable" architect designed a home with a vented crawl space in Nebraska, I'd suggest they're not so reputable in the building science category.

    With proper insulation and conditioning of the crawl space, you may find you don't need to modify your heating system. Depending on how the foundation of the crawl space is constructed, you may be able to add insulation to the exterior and eliminate the need to find really, really skinny trade contractors.

  • 3 years ago

    A few owners later, the house is now our forever home and we’ve discovered that in winter here in the NE, the kitchen gets bitter cold.


    Not sure if she is in Nebraska(NE)? She says 'here in the NE' - or North EAST

  • PRO
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Ah, that's where punctuation comes in. New England would be abbreviated as N.E., N. Eng., N. England... North east would be abbreviated as N.E. In either case, a vented crawl space in a cold climate zone is not appropriate, in my opinion.

  • 3 years ago

    Right! As long as folks are using the correct punctuation and spelling. We know that this is not the case on Houzz- even with PROS(not you - just thinking of one in particular).


    I agree about the vented crawl space.

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    A sad commentary on the quality of high school English.

  • 3 years ago

    Sorry for the confusion, folks. I meant North East :)
    But yes, vented crawl space was supposedly code at the time but definitely not a good idea.

  • 3 years ago

    Thanks for your help, Charlie Ross! I’m very hopeful for insulation to be enough.
    I’m told it’s ideal to install wiring for baseboard before spray foam installed, to avoid drilling holes into the barrier, but maybe it wouldn’t be so terrible to do after if necessary? Exterior is stone, so we will install insulation from inside.

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    If insulating the exterior isn't an option, I'd pre-wire for whatever you want while you're doing the retrofit and then insulate it.

  • 3 years ago

    Not a continuation of the grammar and punctuation sidenote, but some verbage in the OP to me could be interpreted differently: is only the Breakfast Room the addition over a crawl space, but the Kitchen next to it is unbearably cold, or does the Kitchen extend into this crawl space addition? And, could this crawl space be an original part of the house, say a porch with stone piers, and they captured the space? Or, is it a newer CMU addition next to the old stone basement foundation?

    Also, your description of "remove HVAC ducts and plywood for insulators" might say something: I'm picturing your ductwork is hanging below the floor joists in a vented crawlspace, and probably uninsulated duct? Only 1 or two ducts for both rooms, and were the runs taken off an existing furnace? Is the bottom of floor joists covered in plywood for some reason?

    If it were my house, I would first understand the construction and areas of improvement for insulation and air sealing, then review HVAC. If the entire house is forced air, including the Kitchen and Breakfast, I certainly would not introduce baseboard heating of any sort. Nor electric radiant for such a large area (keep it confined to bathroom tile in a forced air house).

    And, if it were a forever home of high market value, I would review whether I could dig the crawlspace a bit deeper (your description is "small and crowded" but if contractors don't like it that would say to me there is no headroom) and simulataneously work on a mud slab/radon/encapsulation all at once.

    FWIW: HVAC is any method of Heating Ventilating Air Conditioning, you have forced air. And vented crawlspaces have been and are still to code - that is the cheaper route than an "unvented" and conditioned crawlspace.

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Trust me, in the NE, the last thing you want is resistance electric baseboard heating! Insulate, insulate, insulate, first. Get the crawlspace sorted, then insulate the walls (and ceiling/attic if appropriate) and then figure out what, if any, supplemental heating you need.

    Resistance electric baseboard heating will empty your wallet REAL fast!

  • 3 years ago

    If you have an ample budget, hire a contractor to build or rebuild to solve the issue.