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Latent Defect in New Home

3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago

We built a house almost three years ago and have been happy with it for the most part. The toilet in our guest bathroom on the basement level plugged up this fall, and we ended up calling a plumber after our plunging and snaking efforts failed. He cleared it but also used a camera to see the plumbing run all the way to the street. He showed us that there was a "belly" in the run and said it was a contractor error on the build.

We contacted the builder who sent us to their plumbing sub and also pointed out that we were past our warranty. We looked online and found a state law that gives us six years to resolve any latent defects in our construction.

Long story short, we had the subcontracting plumber and a sewer company here (at the sub's request and cost). They have now determined the piping has no pitch and thus has standing water from the toilet to the backwater valve. We are being told the fix will involve removing the concrete from the toilet outward, thus requiring digging up the floor, toilet and possibly the vanity and bathtub in that bathroom.

Has anyone heard of this? Is there no easier way to repair it? And even if they pay for the fix, do we have any recourse for the giant mess they are about to make in our (finished) lower level?

Comments (20)

  • 3 years ago

    That is going to be tough to answer without having been to the site and more. They have the info and would know better than anyone on the internet.

    Just Me (Zone 6a) thanked millworkman
  • PRO
    3 years ago

    Waste lines need to be pitched in order to function properly (if stuff is going to flow downhill driven by gravity, there needs to be at least a small hill.) The required pitch in our state's plumbing code is 1/4" per lineal foot for horizontal drains 2 1/2" or less in diameter, and 1/8" per lineal foot for horizontal drains 3" to 6" in diameter. The OP should check to ensure the work complies with whatever code is applicable in their area.

    Just Me (Zone 6a) thanked Charles Ross Homes
  • 3 years ago

    Fair. I am just wondering how common this level of fiasco is in home building.

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    "Has anyone heard of this?"

    No, but it is completely believeable.


    "Is there no easier way to repair it?"


    Not that I can think of.


    "And even if they pay for the fix, do we have any recourse for the giant mess they are about to make in our (finished) lower level?"


    If you get them to do the repairs without a lawsuit, you're doing well. Tell them if they do and get inspection to approve, you'll eat the cost of the reassembly and cosmetics.

    Just Me (Zone 6a) thanked Joseph Corlett, LLC
  • PRO
    3 years ago

    See if a mudjacker could pump out the belly.

  • 3 years ago

    @Joseph Corlett, LLC We have photos of the plumbing and sewer lines being laid before the concrete was poured in the basement floor. It's clear from the photos that the line has no pitch and the guys who were here acknowledged as much. It's not just a belly in one spot, -- there is standing water in the pipe from the toilet to the backwater valve, so they can't really say it isn't their fault...it's not like one spot has sunk with compacting soil. So I don't see why we should pay for any of this. Frankly, they looked a little sick to the stomach when they saw the situation.


    That said, we have contacted a lawyer in case we need him.

  • 3 years ago

    Whatever they take apart, they have to put back in the finished condition it started in. The plumber may have to pay for another sub to do anything out of his area of expertise. Line all that up before the work begins. That's just logic. Your builder may be able to use the original guys who did the wotk 3 years ago. Everything should be spelled out as part of the complete job.

    Just Me (Zone 6a) thanked dan1888
  • 3 years ago

    Before the drain installers backfill in our builds, the municipal inspector does a simple test--they drop a ball of paper and water equivalent to a w.c. flush and check that it comes out the other end purposefully. I'm always on hand for that one. Guess someone forgot to undertake such a "complicated" procedure for your home.


    If it's a tract build, the builder will hold the drain installers liable--if they ever want another contract from them! Glad to hear your jurisdiction makes the responsibility for latent defect legislatively clear.

    Just Me (Zone 6a) thanked worthy
  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    "If you get them to do the repairs without a lawsuit, you're doing well. Tell them if they do and get inspection to approve, you'll eat the cost of the reassembly and cosmetics. "


    I disagree a bit:

    Most warranties exclude "consequential damages" - but they are indeed getting off cheap if there aren't attorneys involved. I would be inclined to negotiate a flat fee for the reassembly and cosmetics. No contractor wants to sign a potentially blank check - but if you can say, $15k, or whatever is reasonable - and get talked down a little so they feel like they negotiated some. That's still cheaper than if the suits get involved, for everyone. It may not cover all your expenses, but it's something.

    Just Me (Zone 6a) thanked Jake The Wonderdog
  • 3 years ago

    @dan1888 That is my expectation. Time will tell. We're waiting for the plumber to come back to us with what the repair will entail and what they are willing to do.

  • 3 years ago

    @worthy Seems like that should be basic construction/plumbing 101. This is in a tract development that is still building out, so I will be curious to see if any other neighbors have similar issues. I do know one home that was built in 2017-2018 has had plumbing problems, but not the same ones. Grrr.

  • 3 years ago

    basic construction/plumbing 101


    About as basic as you can get: water runs downhill!


    When licensed, we never built more than two infill houses at once, so there was a level of oversight tract builders don't provide. Used to be a ratio of one super per every 50 houses around here.

  • 3 years ago

    @worthy We thought we had a great construction manager, and my husband was on site pretty much daily calling out anything we saw that wasn't right. I guess we assumed too much in expecting the water to run downhill. 🤣

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    daily calling out anything we saw that wasn't right.

    Like watching surgery on TV. You don't know what you don't know.

    We had a client who dropped by most every morning. An errant drop of paint was a catastrophe. But an un-reinforced foundation corner. Uh? (Fortunately, we spotted and corrected it.)

  • 3 years ago

    Like watching surgery on TV. You don't know what you don't know.


    Haha. So true. We weren't that picky, but we did catch some crazy things that needed to be caught.

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    My 2 cents… This is likely negligence and thus the disclaimer for consequential damages probably doesn’t apply.

    I would be more concerned about contractors passing the buck. The plumbers should have known better but they can’t create a slope where one doesn’t exist. If the basement was poured with no slope to the sewer hookup then one isn’t going to magically appear. They certainly should have stopped work and notified the contractor but that is something the contractor would need to address. I would honestly talk to an attorney. You don’t have to sue anyone just to have a consult, but I suspect you could spread some of the cost around and get close to being made whole.

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    @bry911 We contacted the builder and their first response was to tell us our warranty had expired. If my husband hadn't done his research and found out our state has a six year period for latent defects, they would have just shut us down. Of course, their next step was to point fingers at the plumbers. I hope we don't need a lawyer, but we have one lined up.


    It's also obvious (in retrospect) that the slope of the plumbing run (before the basement floor was poured) is not sloping much if at all.

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    The plumbers should have known better but they can’t create a slope where one doesn’t exist.

    When I build, I check the sewer main line depth in advance. On one build, the municipality initially told me the line was only 7' deep. So I left a hole in the poured foundation wall, figuring the drains would run under the first floor and any basement drains would use a sewage pump. Turns out the line was an exceptional 12' below street level.

    In our area, at least for new builds, drainage and plumbing contractors are separate specialities.

    *****

    This is like one of those minor repairs in a vehicle. But it's the getting to it and out that's the real work.

  • 3 years ago

    This is like one of those minor repairs in a vehicle. But it's the getting to it and out that's the real work.


    That pretty much sums up the facial expressions of the plumbing and sewer guys. They spray painted the spots on the floor that need to be open and it's going to be a hot mess.

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