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Corner lot subdivide - New custom home construction

3 years ago

Hello.

I have a dilemma with a corner lot that I have under contract.

It's 1.8 acre, but I intend to subvide it into 2 lots (approximately in half) and build my custom home in 1 lot and sell the other. This is a very quite neighborhood with 3 way STOP although the road going east/west has a pretty good traffic. I should be able to build the same house on both lots with pretty good size backyard. If I build it on the corner lot I should be able to sell the inner lot much easier than the corner lot. Which lot would you choose? Why and why not?

Thank you in advance.




Comments (69)

  • 3 years ago

    The OP needs to figure out where everything can go: house, driveway, septic, well. This can get very tricky. Our lake house is on a lot slightly smaller than these would be (in watershed) and they are very strict about how far septics and wells need to be from adjacent septics and wells.


    Then you have to calculate how large a house can be built based on perc test results. Add in that you don't want heavy vehicles (fuel trucks) driving over your septic line. And the gradient, which determines if you have to pump to the septic. Does this property include any wet areas?


    In the abstract, an acre sounds like a lot of land, but the details can get complicated.

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    If the one labeled STreet is the one with the traffic, and the one labeled ROAD s the one with little traffic - it really won't matter. Unless what is down ROAD looks lke it is primed for future development. With no sidewalks, this helps.

    You can always plant a hedge of shrubs on the ROAD side, and pick that one for you, and sell the other. Or just simply build your house in your preferred spot and you will still come out ahead.

    Subdividing ease depends on your community. I've recently gotten on our town's Planning Board - there's a fee here for subdividing, but it is not onerous. Check your own town's schedules and fees, and know that while you might save money with a GC and his subs working on two adjacent homes at the same time, that will still be close to double the fee than for building the one house. If you have the money or loans might be he way to go. Perc first before deciding.

    Also - is this community water or is water supplied by wells? Find out from neighbors how easy it was for them to find well-locations on their property. A larger potential drilling space gives your well-driller more options.

    If you do end up doing this, if you build two identical homes next to each other, as a potential buyer I'd find this a true turn-off, and would not purchase either. I know that makes the process of building cheaper yet - but at the very least make them mirror images and do different facades/ exterior paints / landscaping.

  • 3 years ago

    I would need to see your plan for the house, how it will sit, where the garage is what sort of landscaping you have a budget for. We've always had a corner lots. They just seem more spacious but privacy could be an issue depending on your specific house plan.

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    It seems like there are a lot of unknowns surrounding this property. You can either purchase it now and deal with the issues later, or get very specific as to setbacks, water, sewer, siting, etc. now and perhaps decide whether or not to purchase it. If that were me, I'd pass and find something else.

  • 3 years ago

    are the other homes in the neighborhood on the larger lots and will your 2 look out of place?


    As shown here - there are corner lot lovers and haters. YMMV on this aspect.

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    I think this needs a lot more thinking . We had 2 acres and by th time wefound water and putin the septic field there were only 2 places to build the house where we had the amount od sun we wanted and far enough away from the highway. There were no "rules" as to what to build but for sure common sense needed to be the first plan. HOAs or not there are still many rules that need to be heeded when developing raw land.

  • 3 years ago

    I am trying to wrap my head around living on a street with 8-12 cars per minute passing my house. (I get less than 20 per day passing in front of my house). 8-12 cars per minute would be a deal breaker for me.


    So if the interior lot is on the busier street I would choose the corner lot and face my home toward the less busy road. I would fence or plant trees or do what I could to limit the impact of the busy road on my back yard space


    If the interior lot is on the low traffic road I would choose the interior lot.


    If I were in your shoes I would pick the lot that worked best for me and sell the other lot.



  • 3 years ago

    Interesting because people love corner lots where I live. They aren’t at all less desirable

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    So, the town confirmed you can subdivide. Great! Now, make an appointment to see an engineer. She/he will be able to determine what can be built on the lots, per perk test and septic install. My town has specifics as to what can be built when the septic once the position is mapped out.

    You will be informed how many bedrooms you can have...two, three, four. If you can build only a two bedroom, you still will have install a 3 bedroom septic. In addition to the septic rule, you may encounter another hurdle. My town, you also need 10,000 sq feet of land for each bedroom.

    Why "exempted from sewer"? It's the septic size and its position that is driving the bus. If you can hook up to town sewer, do it.

  • 3 years ago

    So your question is "which lot would you choose"?

    With only the limited information you provided, the only reasonable answer is the "inner" lot.

    Why would anyone choose to build their "custom home" on a non-private corner lot with a 3-way stop sign?

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Here is a satellite view of the area.

    I felt like the corner lot would work better since it has 2 streets if the house faces toward the Rd the side setback can be at min of 10ft, therefore the house can sit further away from both street and still have plenty of private backyard (40ft setback). The St side is one with very little car traffic and the Rd side is with more traffic. However, if I choose the inner lot and have the house face North (toward the Rd) because I like to have my backyard face South the rear setback which would be backyard from the St side would have to be 40 ft making the house sit closer to St side. I feel like with plenty of privacy trees on the Rd side the corner lot would still be a good choice.

    P.S. There are plenty of 2M plus custom homes on corner lot.

    Thank you all for your input.


    The lot is located more than 200ft from the closest sewer so it's exempted. It would cost significant amount of money to connect to sewer.

  • 3 years ago

    The corner lot house is positioned in such a way that most of your usable yard is in the front & side (along the roads), while being close to the neighboring lot lines, affording you little space or privacy. From your back patio, you'll have the neighbor's long driveway to your immediate left and you'll be staring at the side of the future house on lot #2. I think both houses would be better if they were located on the quieter street.


    That said, I see some issues with the postioning of the "inner" house on Short St. There is a steep elevation change from the sidewalk to your property and you have some low power lines hanging across that entire stretch of road. How would you deal with these two issues?

  • 3 years ago

    I drew up a rough sketch to show the generaal idea of putting house further away from the corner and are not drawn in scale.

  • 3 years ago

    My point still stands. And one reason I don't like corner lots.

    You're trying to get the house further from the corner, at the expense of the most important backyard space. Putting the house close to your neighbor's driveway, closer to the side of the future house, with lots of largely wasted front/side yard space.

  • 3 years ago

    What about positioning the house so it faces the intersection. This would maximize the privacy of your backyard, maximize the distance to neighboring lots, and minimize the amount of land 'wasted' to front/side yard space.


  • 3 years ago

    One more thing to investigate, especially for the corner lot, is where you'll be allowed/required to put the driveway (i.e. property access). There are strict regulations about driveways including distance from intersections and traffic control devices, and required sight distance. These will dictate how you can orient structures and could help you make a decision.

  • 3 years ago

    @Loudermilk - I chose my homes based on a large, usable, back yard. I love being outside, working in my gardens, playing with my dog and privacy is very important to me.


    That seems to be important to you and to me, but it is not everyone's ideal. I know plenty of people who want the showcase home with an impressive front yard, some that want no yard work, many who never spend any time in the back yard.



  • 3 years ago

    Agreed Jennifer. When we were deciding to build vs buy one of the issues was a the homes we looked at didn’t have the backyards we wanted but had homes bigger than we needed. So we chose to build smaller than allowed and have an amazing yard. But from what I see around us we aren’t the norm in our area.

  • 3 years ago

    @Loudermilk - I want my backyard face south and get the maximum benefit of daylight which is the reason why I have the front of the house face North in both lot scenarios. Angled house would have the backyard face southwest. I definitely want a large private backyard away from both streets ( I may have positioned the house too much in the corner). If I choose the inner lot the backyard will be the space south of the house since the house will face North.

  • 3 years ago

    Our previous house was on a curve, so the house faced SW. I loved that orientation! The dining room opened to a deck facing SE, so it was completely shaded in the afternoon, for delightful dinners outside without the hot sun. In the winter, we got great sun in the SE patio door and large living room windows facing SW, but we didn't get a lot of direct sunlight in the summer (so it was easier to cool). The bedrooms faced NE.


    Given a choice, I would choose that kind of orientation every time.

  • 3 years ago

    First, this lot is HEAVILY wooded with large 30'+ trees (so are the neighboring lots). Are you planning on cutting most of these trees down? If not, I don't think it's really possible to "get the maximum benefit of daylight", regardless of how the houses are positioned.

    Secondly, how is it possible for the "inner lot" house to face north? So the front of the house, and the front door, will not be facing the street? The front door is in the pink in my attached pic?


  • 3 years ago

    I was thinking about cutting most of the trees down. The orientation of the front door you pictured is correct (facing north to make the backyard face south). I already confirmed this orientation with the city and received confirmation that it's allowed as long as the setbacks are followed. I know what you are thinking about the orientation of the front door not facing the street. Even though I want the back of the house face south I think it might be somewhat awkward to have the front of the house not face the street, hence the dilemma.

  • 3 years ago

    I think it might be somewhat awkward to have the front of the house not face the street.

    That might be the understatement of the year on this forum. Orienting the house as you're proposing would be completely bizarre. It will also likely make it incredibly difficult to sell the house in the future.

    I think you are way too hung up on having the yards face exactly due South.

  • 3 years ago

    I agree with you that I may be too hung up on the orientation because it's important to me, but I also know there are many homes that do not necessarily face the closest street as long as the house is well covered by fencing or privacy trees.

  • 3 years ago

    Lots of people utilize side yards or mostly side and a bit of back. I don’t think this is a huge dealbreaker.

  • 3 years ago

    What exactly are your specific reasons for having the house align perfectly due South?

    Even if you turn your beautiful lot into a barren wasteland by "cutting down most of the trees", your neighbors have really large trees you can't remove.

  • 3 years ago

    It doesn't matter what anyone suggests for house placement, the topography of the land will take care of that.

    If you've already had the excavator come out and agree to where you want it - then cool!

  • 3 years ago

    @loudermilk there are tons of trees on these pots. They could easily take down three quarters of them and absolutely not have a barren wasteland. Look at the pictures of some of the homes nearby. Some have taken all out, some left many, some strategically made spaces and left trees in certain spots. There is a balance to be had and it can be done. Easily

  • 3 years ago

    I don't have to slign the house perfectly due South, but the lot is currently orientated North to South. I like the backyard face South because the backyard always has light during the day all year round. A lot of natural light due to large windows on the back end of a house. I appreciate you pointing out the fact that the neighbors' trees will block some of the sun exposure that I can't do anything about.

  • 3 years ago

    The OP's stated reasons for removing "most" of the trees, and positioning a house so it faces the side of a neighboring property instead of the street, is to "get the maximum benefit of daylight".

    I'm not exactly sure what that means, but these seems like big tradeoffs for potentially little gain.

  • 3 years ago

    I like the backyard face South because the backyard always has light during the day all year round.

    The backyard will get the exact same amount of light, regardless of whether the house faces the street or the corner lot.

    A lot of natural light due to large windows on the back end of a house.

    This is certainly a consideration, but you can't cut down your neighbors really tall trees, so this will limit "maximum" light. And you can build an L-shaped house with a wing facing south, if needed.

  • 3 years ago

    It is very doable to still get light when neighbours have large trees or you keep some too. There are at least 20 trees in my south east facing yard and it’s filled with light.

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    It would be a good idea to get the local architect that will be designing your house involved in this site selection process so your decision can be based upon facts and not assumptions.

  • 3 years ago

    I would hope anyone who gets advice on this forum has the common sense to realize they need to check in locally to get correct and usable information.

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    I would too, but here they have to weed out the incorrect and unusable information. Some people get certain ideas in their head and it is difficult to change their mind.


    I had a client that was told by a friend he should clear half the trees off his lot to make it easier for the builder. So the homeowner cleared half the number of trees on his lots. Both the builder and I knew the Home Owner Association and Zoning do not allow more than 20% of the trees to be removed from the site and permission had to be obtained in writing. This is a pending case and they have not mentioned any trees cut down, yet.


    Let's hope common sense prevails.

  • 3 years ago

    Just a bit of my experience of living 21 years on a big corner lot. Most of it is more public because of "front" set backs on two sides. Even though we are in the middle of a decent neighborhood we have had our side yard fence crashed by a car. There is more to edging and trash from others to pick up. Don't get me started on the dog walkers who think it is ok to leave bagged poop in side yard hedges. The code officials cite corner lots more the minute a tree branch or hedge droops over the side yard side walk. ( Our neighbors on all the adjacent corners have the same complaints.) Our fence replacement was much more than interior lots, but you only have one neighbor to share fence line.

    It is more convenient for getting in and out of the alley and easy for guest to locate with more street parking. So I would probably opt for the interior lot and make it the larger one to have more contiguous backyard.

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Kathleen, OP said there are no sidewalks.

    JC:: As Mark said, get in an architect or other related professional, consult with septic designers, and look at all the detailed code pages for your town/region of town fo find out what you can and cannot do.

    Subdivide if you wish - but after you verify both lots are truly buildable (see former paragraph) then just sell the other lot off as raw land. Less aggravation on your part both in building and if/when something goes wrong on the house you sold to a future next-door neighbor.

    Pick your preferred lot - as you can see from this thread, some prefer corners, some prefer interior lots, and some don't really care if the topography etc. works anyway.

    I do see the point of a south back exposure - passive solar is useful - but I bought my land with that in mind when I selected it.

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    The whole topic reminds me of a lot we have a second home on. When we bought, there were 2 identical neighboring lots with identical orientation (and topography/shared septic field) at the same price and we had to decide. Lot #2 had a walking access through the yard and Lot #1 had an empty lot (not for sale) to the other side. So it seemed like a no brainer - buy lot #1 and you have an empty lot on one side and you don't have an access. Of course, no idea what the empty lot would do but nothing currently planned. These are .3 acre lots so an empty lot really meant something.

    We took #1. When they built #2 and we went over to their house, they had a really lovely sunset view because there was on old ranch next to them and they could see over that house since they built much taller.

    Well - we weren't going to build inverted like they did so would not have the sunset view except in a bedroom (that wasn't primary), that lot is still empty 12 years later, and their neighbor house (the old ranch) is a short term rental that isn't very picky about tenants. So in the end, we did way better for us because privacy was most important.

    Both lots have neighbors - have you met them?

    I agree with what a poster said about building on the second lot. I would to that completely anonymously if you could. You don't want the owner knocking on your door when there is a problem - or otherwise blaming you.

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    Build a house on each lot, live in the one that turns out the best and sell the other.

  • 3 years ago

    Kathleen, OP said there are no sidewalks.

    For whatever reason, the OP was not forthcoming about this issue.

    There is, in fact, a sidewalk that run the entire length of the property.



  • 3 years ago

    @Loudermilk - I am amazed you knew the exact location. I erased the name of the streets so I can obtain objective feedback. Never in a million years I thought somebody would be talented enough to figure out the exact location with a small clip of the area, but I thought wrong. Anyhow, I admit that it's my fault when I said there is no sidewalk. That street with sidewalk is the St side with almost no car or foot traffic. Maybe you will spot 1 person walking on that side of the street all day.


    I considered the corner lot over the inner lot for my home because the topo allows for the same house to be built and be able to orient the house with backyard facing south and have to option to build the driveway enter from the street with almost no traffic. If I can shield the more busier Rd (no sidewalk on my side of the lot) with privacy trees maybe it's not so bad compared to building the same house in the inner lot with the front of the house face the Rd (still facing North so backyard is facing South) even with privacy trees.

  • 3 years ago

    Never in a million years I thought somebody would be talented enough to figure out the exact location with a small clip of the area, but I thought wrong.

    What got you was the the home-based business showing in your initial image. A 5-second google search for that business pulled up your exact location. But I've been mindful to remove any identifying info in the images I've posted.


    I considered the corner lot over the inner lot ...and be able to orient the house with backyard facing south ...maybe it's not so bad compared to the inner lot with the front of the house face the Rd.

    If orientation is such a priority, then you absolutely should build on the corner not, as it is the only option that allows a normal house orientation facing the Road. Forget about a north/south house orientation for the inner lot. That is a non-starter. Don't waste your time with this option.

  • 3 years ago

    ++ When you deleted your first name and put in your initials you must have deleted the telephone number of the builder in your ideabook.

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    Think outside the box. The front door does not have to be seen from the street. Houses face east, north, west, and south. Houses should respond to the site and not be plopped upon them. Each site is unique.

    A competent local architect should be able to assist you in the evaluation of the lot(s).

    "Frank Lloyd Wright often told his clients to find property no one wanted, with the idea that such a plot would have some interesting natural feature with which Wright’s organic architecture could interact."

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I'm as much a fan of Frank Lloyd Wright as any layperson, but this quote is illustrative of why so many "pros" here are detached from reality.

    People can't search near and far for a lot "no one wanted" just because it has an "interesting natural feature" that an architect can "interact" with.

    They have a finite pool of lots to choose from, based primarily on being close to family/ friends/ work, in a good school district, close to important activities/ amenities, priced affordably, ect.

    In the real world, people don't have the luxury of finding an idyllic property in rural PA, spend 5+ years on design/construction, exceed their budget by 500%, and spend over $3 million in today's dollars on a house with critical design flaws.

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    I was speaking to those with a glass half full.

    "There is something bigger and better and more worthwhile than the things we see about us, the things we live by and strive for. There is an Undiscovered Beauty, a Divine Excellence just beyond us. Let us stand on tiptoe, forgetting the meaner things, and grasp of it what we may." - Bernard Maybeck

  • 3 years ago

    I think the FLW quote is still and will always be relevant because the reason he gives will almost always produce a much better home. Even if the lot is not idyllic. It is almost always the lot left unsold today when a buyer is looking because nobody wanted it and bought it already. Plucking a generic house design on this unwanted lot just leaves you at the bottom of the pile. You do a tailored build to bring it up.

  • 3 years ago

    because the reason he gives will almost always produce a much better home

    Yes, of course it does. But at what cost? That is the critical part being overlooked. The vast majority of home buyers live in a world of finite resources...time/money/knowledge/energy/ect. Which precludes the ability to do what FLW suggests.

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    All of Wrights clients lived in a world of finite resources. Many of them built their own homes that Wright designed.

  • 3 years ago

    I would avoid the lot with the stop sign just because cars stopping and going again could get annoying

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