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kimberly_barker63

Surprise garage stairs

2 years ago

Our plans show only 1 stair to enter the house from the garage; however, the garage pad was poured recently and it is obvious that at least 4 stairs will be needed to get into the house. We have already paid extra for additional grading to prep the lot to reduce the front porch and back porch stairs, but we were not told of any changes to the plans for the garage entry.

Should we not have been told about this before it was completed? Who is responsible to pay for these stairs or ramp? The plan shows a 32" crawl space and it is over 4' almost the entire area of the house. Shouldn't it have started to lower as it approached the garage in order to make the garage pad higher, which would decrease the need for so many stairs to enter?

We are trying to understand how this happened especially there will only be room for 1 car and it will be a nuisance to go up and down the stairs as we get older. Any explanations appreciated so we can fairly and reasonably work with our builder through this issue.

Comments (40)

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    Only your builder has the knowledge to respond to your concerns and questions.

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    As above. Was there ever a new set of construction plans, showing the change? Go to the builder.

    I am not talking about the floor plan - the actual construction pages - full set, every elevation, window schedule et al

    Kimberly Barker thanked JAN MOYER
  • PRO
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Was the house designed for you and your specific site or is it a tract house?

    Your answer to you concern might be found in your contract with the builder.

    Kimberly Barker thanked Mark Bischak, Architect
  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    When we've built for buyers, we can't guarantee the number of steps into the house or garage. That's a typical clause in sub-division agreements of purchase and sale too.

    A couple of builds ago, the surveyor gave us the wrong cut (too shallow) which we didn't realize till we were ready to frame. It would have left us with a basement ceiling of six feet. So we added two blocks to the foundation. That meant, yes, more steps in the garage and on the front and rear porches. We also had to reduce the roof height to meet zoning restrictions.

  • 2 years ago

    The house was designed specifically for us. We chose a basic plan and an architect worked with us to adapt it to our likes.

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Thank you, Worthy. Our house is much taller than we expected too. It will be interesting to see how the upcoming inspection goes. We are not in a subdivision and no "foundation" clauses in our contract, but certainly understand how the foundation changes based on the slope of the land. We considered that when we surveyed the land and that is how we determined that extra dirt was needed to eliminate some steps; so, we were shocked by the height in the garage when we made such a big deal about grading to get the house "shorter." Oh well, we will figure it out--just don't like that we are expected to pay more for a landing and steps that weren't planned and that take away from the 2 car garage that the plans say--only 1 car now.

  • 2 years ago

    I'd stop things and address this with the builder now. A change of grade is one thing, but losing a car's worth of garage is a pretty big change!

    Kimberly Barker thanked acm
  • 2 years ago

    We have talked to the builder, and so far, we aren't getting an explanation except the slope of our yard was complicated. He offered today for the concrete contractor to raise the garage pad to lessen the steps at our expenses. I'm waiting for him to explain exactly how that will work especially since the garage is now framed and that would make the driveway slope up to the garage. Another builder looked a pictures and said it looks like the pad was poured before the garage area was backfilled with dirt because the cinder block wall shows in the garage.

    And, we have a full set of plans/blue prints, simply put, it shows one step from the house into the garage and 2 cars fit!

  • 2 years ago

    SouSounds liklike yoyou neeneed to have a meeting with a CONSTRUCTION lawyer to help you work out a good solution with the builder

  • 2 years ago

    This would make me just sick. Your dream home made for you but now…

    I wonder if instead of four stairs, which takes up four feet(?) almost, it would be better to have a landing at the top, turn sideways, then a ramp to the garage floor.

    Then see if the garage can be widened. That seems easier than changing the grade and pouring more concrete.

    Kimberly Barker thanked kl23
  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Look at the solutions then figure the costs. One is to break out the concrete and properly fill and compact the ground in the garage area. 24 inches of compacted fill plus more outside. Your 'builder' didn't properly set the level of the build. He's an idiot in this segment of the build. Hopefully he has some skill in other areas. Otherwise, you're in for problems throughout the build. Halt construction until this is solved and settled with responsibility for the cost accepted in writing by the builder. Be prepared to double check everything going forward for your own good.

    Kimberly Barker thanked dan1888
  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    "Your 'builder' didn't properly set the level of the build. He's an idiot in this segment of the build."

    I am very impressed Dan that you can properly and so thoroughly dissect the situation so well with the limited info provided. Especially to refer to someone as an idiot.

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    In our area, a site development plan is required to be submitted at permit application. The site development plan would show the property boundaries and set-backs, the location of the home on the lot, the garage floor elevation, the 1st floor elevation, the walks and driveway and the proposed grading strategy. The difference in garage and 1st floor elevations would determine the number of steps required before the first shovel of dirt. That said, things don't always work out the same in the field as on paper. Minor adjustments are made in the field. There may be a way to alter the location of the steps or 1st floor plan so the garage can still accommodate two cars.

    Kimberly Barker thanked Charles Ross Homes
  • 2 years ago

    As CRH just wrote above, you need to look at the site development plan and see what it says. Somebody needs to determine the new grades and the floor elevations ahead of time, not the guy on the bull dozer when he's shoving dirt around. And your architect, if he/she had the existing topo info, should have done a concept plan for that to give to the engineer so he could do the site development plan. Here's examples of that (my concept plan on left, site development plan on right).


    So, what does your site development plan say?


    And as CRH also noted, you may be able to push the stairs into the house. That may involve some redesign and probably won't reduce the steps but at least you get a functioning garage.

  • 2 years ago

    Thank you all for your suggestions and explanations. We did not get a "new" set of plans. Our original plans were not modified. They were designed for us and we paid considerably for the set of blueprints and even paid extra at one point for a couple changes before we even "signed" to begin building.

    My husband and I are considering a landing that goes toward the back of the garage so that the stairs, or maybe even a ramp, can be situated against the back wall of the garage, but we still will have 3-4 ft for the landing.

    We plan to cordially address the issues with the builder with hopes that he will clearly explain what happened and come up with a solution. So far, it's very vague with the texts and emails, but the in-person on the property chat will hopefully clarify what's happening.

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    What is your architect's solution?

  • 2 years ago

    Agreed - this needed to be addressed at grading and the site plan should have had final floor elevations for both the HOUSE and the garage. If they are both not noted, then you end up with variance that is just a result of putting the garage at the level where they hit undisturbed earth, and then the house, "whereever"

  • 2 years ago

    This guy isn't 8" off. He's 24" off. Even an idiot can notice that amount of dimensional problem. So, he's worse than an idiot. More of a bovine idiot.

  • 2 years ago

    Could a solution be to widen the garage? It would not be cheap, and might not elimate the steps, but as you suggested then you could add a ”landing”. I lived in two houses with a raised portion around the side (and back) that was a good place to store items away from the dripping rain and snow and leaves of the garage floor. When our parents started using canes and walkers, it was a good transition area.

    Kimberly Barker thanked bpath
  • PRO
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Great!! Now I have the word "idiot" stuck in my head the rest of the day.

  • 2 years ago

    Having plans customized for you does not automatically mean that they were customized for the site. That has not been said otherwise so far. So a huge point to consider when in frustration about the extra costs for fill or regrading. Unless directed otherwise, a builder will typically set the elevation of the garage floor based on a minimal slope of the driveway to the existing street/apron/existing sidewalk.

  • 2 years ago

    " We chose a basic plan and an architect worked with us to adapt it to our likes. "


    Have you spoken with the architect about a solution? Are we certain the error is not on the architect? Maybe the way he drew it was not possible with the site conditions? I am inclined to believe it was the builders error but were going off of primitive incomplete info, so I am not inclined to call out anyone as an idiot just yet,

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Because my family are starting to build a house very soon, I brought up your issue to our architect, to ask about grading (on the type of lot where you need many caissons and soils/engineering/geology etc are needed and expensive) and whether there is a possibility of something like this happening, and he gave me a funny look and said, Nooooooo, that is why you have a team of engineers, a great builder and his (the architect's) input and consultation during the build. He couldn't even imagine such a mistake.

    I'm with Mr. Bischak: what does your architect say? Are you paying to have the architect supervise the build? If not, you ought to.

    Another thing I'm going to add is that you seem to be one of those over-board-ly submissive type of person. You keep referencing words like "fairly and reasonably" and that you plan to be "cordial". You know, I start every day treating everyone around me fairly and reasonably, and cordially. But if someone is ripping me off, taking advantage of me, charging me money for an egregious, critical mistake that was THEIR FAULT, then I would know I needed another attitude. If you can't muster the attitude necessary (not saying you won't be fair and reasonable, but the compromise here better result in a 2nd space for a car inside your garage with fewer stairs, and NOT at your expense!), then you need to employ the ol' good-cop/bad-cop routine with your significant other and also hire a construction attorney as you have been advised. Someone needs to step in and insist on your rights, so that you can continue to see yourself as a fair and reasonable person.

    Kimberly Barker thanked Mrs. S
  • 2 years ago

    Again, thank you for more for good advice! I too think it's an error; I mainly wanted to figure who is at fault. If I sound "submissive" so be it, I will expect and "demand" (if necessary) that what should be or should have been done; however, I needed confirmation that I did not want ot assume it was a mistake if it couldn't have been helped due to the slope of the lot. No doubt, there was miscommunication, but a mistake has bigger consequences in my opinion. That's what I was trying to get feedback from this forum to determine what my expectations should be.

    Once we signed off on the plans, we have not been in touch with the architect--so we are not paying her to supervise our build--we were trusting that the builder and his team would follow through with the design.

    Now, that I understand more, thanks to many of you, I can more boldly confront the situation and expect this problem to be corrected.

  • PRO
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    The house was designed specifically for us. We chose a basic plan and an architect worked with us to adapt it to our likes.

    I'm curious. Did your architect visit the site? Did she understand the topography?

    Do the plans have notes stating the importance of minimizing number of steps?

    Did you, your architect and builder meet to discuss the build and work through potential problems?

    I suspect the answer to all of the above is no, rather than yes.

    You expected the architect to create construction documents that the builder could follow exactly, and that's a perfectly valid expectation. I can understand your frustration that things have not gone according to plan.

    If your architect is an architect and not simply a designer/drafter then she should be interested in these problems and offering her input on how best to resolve -- she should be your advocate.

    Maybe time to bring everyone together to find a solution. And by together, I mean at the jobsite.

    Kimberly Barker thanked PPF.
  • 2 years ago

    If you are worrying about aging in place and the stairs, you could possibly design the staircase to accomodate a lift being added later. That is how we dealt with our one story home which had to have the first floor elevated due to flood code. Our architect did have the stairs as an integral part of the design and he was pretty close on the number of steps required but we live in Florida with a relatively flat topography.

  • 2 years ago

    Are you talking about steps or staircases (multiple steps)?

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    "The house was designed specifically for us. We chose a basic plan and an architect worked with us to adapt it to our likes."

    It would be more accurately stated. "The house was altered specifically for us. We chose a basic plan and an architect worked with us to adapt it to our likes."

  • 2 years ago

    Seems like this is more on the architect than the builder. The plans should have taken the topography into account and specified a solution, be it fill, grading, or steps to fit the house to the shape of the land. I know our architect wanted detailed elevations of the site and spent quite a bit of time worrying about even the subtle grade on our lot. If the builder didn't follow the plans that's a whole other discussion.

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    OP's first sentence: "Our plans show only 1 stair to enter the house from the garage"

  • 2 years ago

    Has grading been done and construction started?

  • 2 years ago

    The "garage pad has been poured". Which is very very late in the process.

  • 2 years ago

    OK, has framing started?

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    "I'm waiting for him to explain exactly how that will work especially since the garage is now framed and that would make the driveway slope up to the garage."

    Kimberly Barker thanked barncatz
  • 2 years ago

    The house is a custom build meaning, but we ignorantly did not include the architect in the grading process when it was done. We purchased the land 3 years ago and had the plans drawn up before we even confirmed who we would hire to build. We have built before, on property like a terraced-like hill and had none of these situations come up and we lived there 18 years with no issues.

    The house is now framed, for the most part.

    Not sure Mr. Cary, why you suggest the garage was poured late in the process--when do you recommend this step be done?

    We have an on-site meeting with builder, his foreman & other team members, the grader, the concrete contractor, and the foundation contractor scheduled for the end of this week. Not sure if we will be completely content with the final solution, but we expect accountability, answers, and the most reasonable action. Overall, the house looks great so far; we just do not like and did not expect the tall foundation and so many stairs to enter.


  • 2 years ago

    What would be a reasonable fix in your opinion?

  • 2 months ago

    Same thing is currently happening at my house, one level, .Garage construction has finished, rafters are in place, no concrete pour yet. We are retired, this is our retirement home. Like you, 5 steps will also affect parking a car on one side of garage. Hired an attorney to get out of contract. I would love to have a solution for a fix. Any suggestions?

  • 2 months ago

    ...picking up another hanging chad, so to speak.


    On our current build for ourselves, the excavation was one foot higher than planned. Rather than risk hitting running water, I let it go.


    So the first floor was one foot higher than planned. That meant that the garage-to- house entrance--which is at the front of the garage--was also one foot higher than planned. So the resulting landing and steps (or steps alone) from the garage to house now intrude into one of the garage door openings.


    If we had realized that, the oversized double garage door could have been narrowed by one foot. Oh well.

  • 2 months ago

    Our contractor chose to use pre built trusses, the plan called for stick trusses. This made our roof pitch off and not line up with house roof as planned. The fix was to make the bonus room ceiling lower, 8.5’ and garage ceiling higher 11’ to fix roof pitch. This error made our steps into the house 5 steps instead of 1-2 steps. I can live with bonus room and garage height, but steps up to house is a major issue to me, one side of garage you will not be able to park a car.? I just want a fix to this solution.
    So frustrating.