November photo of the Nyssa---the dark green tree next to the large gold sugar maple. Even when all of the other trees are completely defoliated, the Nyssa leaves will be green and fully attached to the tree until at least December.

I agree with the late fall color. Mine does participate though and seems ahead of yours.

Pics from five minutes ago, 10/27.

For comparison, most of the maples in my yard are not to peak yet except for that dull yellow acer rubrum in the background. My scarlet oak is about 1/4 way there.one metasequoia is half way, my Ogon (not in the pic) looks like it did in July, the Kornus Floridas seem past peak, the ash and walnuts are done.

Replying to Ken, No my Nyssa Wildfire is not telephone poled. I don't do any fertilization or lawn chemicals in my backyard where this tree is planted in full sun (see photo in this thread). The root ball was balled and burlap when planted (as I recall) and the tree has grown significantly since I planted it ten years ago. Its growth appears to be robust. AJ Princeton in this thread noted that Michael Dirr had commented on Wildfire's disappointing fall color. I will say it despite the annoyance of having the leaves stay on the tree until after all other trees leaves are down and fall cleanup has been done, the dark green leaves remaining on Nyssa Sylvatica Wildfire beyond late autumn do make for a nice contrast in color setting off the other fall colors of deciduous trees.

For comparison: This is ’Autumn Cascade’, with Metasequoia in the background beginning to turn. pic taken a couple of days ago.

Northern Virginia in my neighborhood. Assuming this is black gum. Nothing else gets quite this red except a few maples and maybe dogwood, burning bush.

My green gable is looking great in its third fall! The first two years had me nervous because it wasn’t great. This is the first time it’s looked better than all the straight species in my neighborhood my neighborhood. As usual my wildfire is green lol. What you miss in the fall you gain in the spring and summer with the colors. I also planted a afterburner this summer because from all my nyssa reading it was said to have the best fall colors. I put a lot of effort into finding the afterburner, which was hard to come by in the Philadelphia area.

They look good Jim! Where did you find the Afterburner? I'm looking for 2-3 different Nyssa's and located in Montgomery County not far from you.

Thanks,

Will

Conestoga nursery in east earl will. I was looking for a Appalachian red redbud and they carried that as well as the afterburner. The owner told when I called that they wouldn’t be for sale until the fall or following spring. I found him when I went this summer and told him I’d pay whatever price to get it now. He had one out that looks like it will need pruning for the central leader and ended up being root-bound. Beggars can’t be choosers so I took it. It’s being doing great. Afterburner is also referred to as David Odom. I called all over for this tree and this was the only place that had it.

Thanks for the info Jim, I'll have to check them out. I guess by now that they are probably closed for the season until spring. Did they have many cultivars of Nyssa in smaller sizes,#5- #7 pots, and how is pricing?

Thanks again,

Will

Will I would have paid a lot of money for both those trees after the extensive search. So I didn’t pay too much attention but the place was reasonable. I talked to a landscaper from the main line who would drive out there for his trees and shrubs because it saved him money compared to local berserkers in Philadelphia. The nyssa was in a small pot and the redbud was balled and burlapped. They mainly had green gable in pots and maybe some wildfires.

Thanks Jim!

I'll most likely pay them a visit in the spring.

Will

I'll add a few words about my experiences out here in Oregon. I bought the plain species in Oct. of 2021. I chose this particular specimen because the foliage was completely red in its 3 gal pot at a local plant nursery, Dancing Oaks. Now in my garden in fall of 2022, it was a mix of yellow, orange and brown, leaves dropping as they turned, not very impressive. This fall we had a mild frost on Oct 30 (29.5F) which turned the top half of the tree sickly blackish-green. The bottom half colored up OK, with a mix of yellow & orange but the leaves dropped continuously as they colored, from the interior of the tree out to the tips. Again not very impressive. It has been growing incredibly fast, over 3 feet of growth this year, and it kept growing right up through late October. This probably has something to do with the poor fall color. The frost sensitivity is kind of a puzzler to me though.

I was back at Dancing Oaks last week and they had another unnamed seedling, a female, growing in their display gardens with the most incredibly glossy leaves that I've ever seen on a Nyssa. The fall color was a gorgeous mixture of bright, reddish orange and gold, and the tree was loaded with beautiful, bloomy, blue fruit. I wish they would name and propagate this tree, but nobody is interested in female Nyssa cultivars, most likely. My tree has very dull, non-glossy foliage, and the contrast is dramatic.

Based on the comments above and the dramatic differences observed among seedlings, I think a lot more progress could be made towards superior selections of this species.

Nov 14 in zone 6B, my swamp (Acer Rubrum) maple leaves are all down; my oak leaves mostly down; Honey locust leaves all down; Beech leaves hanging on as usual, and my Nyssa Sylvatica Wildfire is completely green (except a small amount of leaves from this season's new growth) with no leaf drop whatsoever. Consistent with prior years. Anyone else have a Nyssa "Wildfire" that is losing its leaves now? If so, what zone?

OK, I could only restrain myself for three days. I must comment - with information for @artinnaturez8b.

It would be great to see images of tree described above; I especially would love to see the "...incredibly glossy leaves...gorgeous mixture of bright, reddish orange and gold...loaded with beautiful, bloomy, blue fruit..."

That's Nyssa sylvatica Red Rage®, to a "T".

The fruit are tart and tasty, with a single smooth oblong seed inside.

I would posit that the nursery you visited planted a Red Rage® some time ago (it has been marketed for quite some time), and that it has matured into a fine plant, blooming, and setting its attractive fruit.

There many named selections of Nyssa sylvatica out in circulation; in Seneca Park in Louisville, we have planted a collection of (now) 30 distinct taxa. At least four (Afterburner®, Carolyn, Red Rage®, Winning Colors) are female.

J. Frank Schmidt Nursery has long tested promising individuals of this species, and have released their own named selections as well as producing other great plants from around the country. They list 6 or 7 taxa, with excellent pictures and descriptions of their traits.

Here are some additional Nyssa images from this weekend in Lexington KY.

Tough to find a bad one...

@ViburnumValley central KY Bluegrass z6, I have three images but the only way you're going to see them is if you provide your email or phone. I'm game if you are.

???

There is a messaging feature here at Houzz - if your intent is to not show them to anyone else - where you could send them to me.

Not sure what the game is...

No games, I'm unable to post pics here, but I am able to text or email them. I don't know anything about the messaging feature.

So yeah, we had a good freeze 2 or 3 weeks ago then mil weather.

Or maybe it heard me talkin bout it.

VV, interesting that Red Rage produces fruit at your location, I can't recall seeing any fruit on the small number of Red Rage we've planted here. The online references I've checked, including Schmidt and Dirr, say that RR is a male and seedless.

I do not disagree with your statement, @arbordave (SE MI), and I will happily amend/edit my list of fruiting selections. I'm aware of Dirr's, Schmidt's, AND

Oops. CONTINUED FROM ABOVE...

AND from the individual who discovered, selected, and named Red Rage. That same person identified this individual tree planted in his neighborhood (pictured in my first post) as Red Rage.

Now: that could be an ID error. That tree could be Afterburner. Alternatively, there might be some polygamo-dioecious-ness going on. More observations will likely, er, bear fruit.

"there might be some polygamo-dioecious-ness going on" sounds like a possibility. The tree you posted looks a lot like the RRs I've seen (aside from the fruit) in terms of general crown shape, branching, and foliage. Here's a photo I took last week (11/8/23) of one of our RRs

planted this Tupelo Tower Black Gum tree 6 years ago

Has grown about 2 feet per year. Photo taken October 30, 2023.

Interesting thread. I came here trying to learn why this year my Wildfires were so terrible, when last year the fall color was other-worldly. If there is such a thing as neon red, that was last year's color. This year, oddly, one of my wildfires had *one* leaf turn that color, early in the season, then the rest of the foliage proceeded to stay on well into November and turn ugly brown. I assumed it was due to some weather problem, or maybe because my soil is poor and the tree finally figured it out (i.e. depleted the nursery ball soil...if that's a thing that happens). I would love to know how to get the color back - it's amazing! FWIW the spring color was quite beautiful this year, a lovely glossy reddish green (bot nothing like the neon fall). - EDIT I am in coastal CT, zone 6b/7a and was able to attach a photo of my single red Wildfire leaf from October 5th, it was followed 6 weeks later by becoming a brown tree. But last year the entire tree was this color.

Thanks Jim for the Philadelphia Area Afterburner tip! Looks like I missed it for this spring but they will probably have them again in the Fall at Conestoga Nursery.

My black gum (wildfire) story is just about identical to yours - planted about 5 years ago, beautiful shape and size, full sun… new leaves coming in both in spring and all summer are red. In the fall leaves stay on until December, eventally turn brown and fall off. I’m disappointed we dont get the expected fall color - but it is a really nice tree.

We are in Wisconsin, zone 5B, and just purchased a Wildfire Tupelo yesterday from a local nursery. They had Green Gable last week but sold out by the time we went. I am really wanting fall color and am questioning whether I should return the Wildfire. I believe if I can if I do so soon. Unless I missed something, I did not see any of the comments in this thread that were zone five. Would being in a colder area mean I may see more color or should I return the tree?

Green gable gets great fall color. It’s a solid red. Afterburner had some lighter and darker tones of red. To be honest the straight species may still have the best fall color. They have orange, red, and yellow tones. One plus to the cultivars is they have a good growth habitat. The straight species in my neighborhood tend to be narrow and lanky. Don’t expect much fall color with wildfire.

What wildfire lacks in fall color is made up for in spring color. Also has the fastest growth rate of mine. Easily double that of green gable which was planted at the same time. I’d keep it and add another !

I had an AstroFire (only produced for a limited time) and it’s fall color came and went by the time that Afterburner’s color peaked. They are planted right beside each other - Afterburner is aptly named. Both have great color, at least as young trees.

Thank you for the reply's! I appreciate the info. The Green Gable variety is sold out at our local nursery and I have yet to find them anywhere else near me. I like the idea of keeping the Wildfire and adding the Green Gable next year, assuming I can still get it. A few more questions. First, how much room should I plan to dedicate if I want to include both trees near one another in a bed and far apart should I space them? For those that have Wildfire, when you say that the leaves emerge red and stay through June, I'm assuming that giving up the Fall color in exchange for Spring/Summer color seems a fair trade. Are the reddish/green leaves worth it? Does anyone have a photo of their Wildfire in the Summer months before the leaves are solid green?

Wild fire always has a reddish tint on the new growth even in summer. It doesn’t stand out too much but it’s nice.really depends on how big the bed is how much room you have in your yard. Whether or not it’s a fair trade is up to you. I also like wildfires growth rate and denser branching.

We just purchased an Afterburner Tupelo to add to our yard. It will be planted near the Wildfire Tupelo we just planted. My husband will not be happy if I change my mind about having two Tupelos next to one another. Are the two varieties I chose different enough in size and shape to give somewhat of a contrast? It doesn't have to be a huge difference but I would like enough to add a little more interest.

Afterburner should be more upright and probably faster growing than the Wildfire. At your location (WI), Wildfire will probably have some tip dieback after severe winters. Afterburner is relatively new, so it may be too early to say much about its long-term performance and hardiness in more northern areas. I believe it was introduced by JF Schmidt (OR), but it may have originated in TN.

Laura, something interesting to me about having two different cultivars next to each other was the different fall color times. Afterburner turned after all the leaves had changed and dropped from our Astrofire (only released for a short time so we couldn't get another). We moved before the first spring with both, but I’m still curious if they ended up blooming at the same time to have berries on the Afterburner.

The shape of that looks just like wildfire to me, but sounds like the color will turn later! They are great native trees the more the merrier :-) I am very interested in some of the narrow cultivars I am reading about, Tupelo Tower and Firestarter. I may have underestimated the spread of my wildfire and it will be brushing up on my house....

In recent years I have planted six cultivars of Nyssa in my New Jersey Zone 7A yard: Wildfire, Penwood Weeper,, Green Gable, Northern Splendor, Tupelo Tower, and Forest Fire. Penwood Weeper gives best and most reliable fall color. Wildfire is the most unreliable. Green Gable has the best narrow habitat. Northern Splendor is earliest to change color. Now, Wildfire does give spring interest with the orange tips on its new leaves. And it’s most vigorous of all. I have had no issues with any die back. But I don’t like the fact wildfire is a Nyssa and you can’t count on its fall color. Unfortunately I planted five of these wildfires. If I had to go back, I would not plant any wildfire. I would plant more Penwood Weeper instead.. The tree however which beats the Nyssa in terms of fall color is the Sourwood (Oxydendron arboreum) - however that’s very finicky tree to grow.

My wildfire with orange tips (largely faded now) on 29th June 2025.

@AJ Princeton NJ z6b that's interesting to hear and consistent with my wildfire experience. The first year the color was good, not great. The 2nd year I got ONE LEAF that turned the famous neon red, then the whole tree turned brown (we had a drought though). Last year the color was really good. It is a mystery to me but am trying to learn what will help it pop. I love the red tipped foliage. Interesting that GG is narrow, I did not know that. I have a very tall Nyssa in my yard that is either native/wild or was planted in 1977 when the house was built. Easily 50 feet tall, but I've never noticed special fall color with it.

AJ I would love to see pics of the penwood. I did find a local supplier and while it sounded interesting I couldn’t find any first hand accounts of people who had it at the time. My grab gable lost its central leader a few weeks ago which I am bummed about. I think it will recover though. My 4ish year old sourwood snapped at the base in the same storm. Nothing beats a sourwood in the fall

Hi James- the picture above is that of one of my penwood weepers from today. I don’t have a fall picture. Will share this fall if you remind me then. I have two penwoods. The one in the front yard has green fruit at this time. Plenty. But the one in the back has no fruit. Its fascinating why is that. Penwood is a female Nyssa. My hypothesis is that the front yard Penwood- has fruit because its close to my green gable row. And Green Gable is a confirmed male nyssa. My Penwood in the backyard (picture above) has no fruit because its quite far from the Green Gable. Interestingly, its closer to the Wildfire- and that makes me wonder if Wildfire is sterile. I have never seen fruit on wildfire. That made me wonder if its male. If its male- then why is it not helping the female penwood bear fruit..

Wildfire is a male clone. Not sure why it wouldn't be able to pollinate your Penwood Weeper.

The owner should observe and record bloom times of each tree. With selections from all over Nyssa sylvatica native range, it's distinctly possible that some selections bloom too early or too late for their potential partners.

This deep dive into Nyssa sylvatica cultivars is fun. I want to add Nyssa sinensis to the conversation. I planted a tree for a client in the Seattle area many years ago and it has developed into a spectacular tree. The fall color was excellent red for the two years that I was in the area. I think I'll check in with this client regarding fall color this year.

I went way back in my phones gallery and found these photos from 2023. This is the seedling tree at Dancing Oaks. I had a discussion with Fred Weisensee about the tree, and it turns out it's a very old specimen but was only around 12 feet tall. It never develops an upright leader and all branches grow out and then downward. So basically a huge shrub with spectacular fall foliage and abundant fruit. I still think it should be named and introduced!

^^

I would buy it!

Hi James,

I was wondering if you can give an update on the Afterburner. I am deciding on which variety of Black Gum to choose. I am located in central Bucks County, not far from you.

How tall was yours when you got it? How tall is it now? Trying to figure out how much growth I can expect per year. How is the fall color? How is the tree doing overall? Any relevant information is much appreciated.

I don't have one on my lot, but there's one right across the road along neighbor's driveway w/typically shiny leaves.