Kristine, thank you for sharing your story. I am so sorry. Holding space for you and your daughter and her kids in my heart. I really want to see our state succeed in investing in services and providing true help. I'd like to see the Sacklers truly make amends too, but that's unlikely.

I also agree that alcohol abuse is a big problem, too.

I got curious about "gateway drugs", and yes, weed can be the 1st step toward harder drugs. And addiction to nicotine also leads to other addictions.

Understanding the Common Gateway Drug Paths (fherehab.com)

"The International Journal of Drug Policy found that nearly 45 percent of regular marijuana users also used other illicit drugs later in life. These drugs include heroin.

According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), marijuana users are three times more likely than non-users to abuse the illicit drug heroin.

The research found that more than 90 percent of adults using cocaine said they consumed nicotine by smoking cigarettes before they went on to use the illicit drug cocaine.

The CDC noted that opioid users are 40 times more likely to abuse heroin than non-users. Why do users of prescription opioids make the switch to heroin? Many say it’s cheaper, while others admit they can no longer get a prescription for their opiate drugs."

I suggest researching weed and the real reason on how it became a schedule 1 drug like HEROINE. More specifically who (William Randolph Hearst) was behind that and why (hemp). I’m also curious about the lack of alcohol being a gateway drug and also would like to see some numbers on the car accidents caused by drunk drivers.. Or if any of these marijuana DUIs, gang shooters etc..were using alcohol as well. The only “research” I would believe about weed is weight gain from the munchies and lack of physical activity. Never seen someone high on weed being black out high running around the streets stealing and damaging property. It just doesn’t make sense. Its not a physical impairment either like driving drunk. If anything the person smoking weed while driving is probably the most cautious person on the road lol.

@Kristine LeGault 8a pnw I’m so sorry to hear about your daughter. I hope she gets the help she needs..I can’t imagine what that’s like for you and your family. I know if she gets picked up here she can go to jail or get treatment at no cost. Think they are on probation for a period of time as long as they complete the program. Same for someone with a mental problem. The Sacklers deserve a special place in hell for what they’ve done.

I think a lot of what’s on this thread is correlation vs causation.

Weed doesn’t cause more car crashes or even fatal ones. The states with the most car fatalities per capita—no legal weed. The leading cause of car accidents in those states? Cell phones and alcohol.

States with legal weed do have people who were using marijuana at the time of the accident but you cannot say that is what caused the accident—are those drivers suddenly immune to cell phone distractions and drunk driving like those in South Carolina, which leads the country in fatal car accidents? No.

Again, causation vs correlation.

Calling weed a gateway drug is fair, if only applied to all other substances that are in the same category—which includes alcohol and is, by far and away, the leading gateway drug. Nobody calls it that tho when you give your 16 year old a beer.

In fact many in the medical community want to call sugar a gateway drug as it possesses the same dopamine effects in children as other gateway drugs, and that is how gateway drugs are measured—on 8-12 year olds. Give a kid a beer or weed consistently when he’s 10, and he could use harder substances later in life. But then again, give a ten year old a Coke every day and you end up in the same boat, but nobody will say Coke is a gateway drug (well, not that Coke).

The STATISTICS are from the CDC & AAA auto & motor1 and many reputable sources. Any debate & arguments should be done with those official sources. I present facts, and NOT opinions. Opinions are fleeting, but facts remain forever.

Life in Chicago was much safer before the legalization of marijuana on Jan 1, 2020, for the state of Illinois. In 2019, there were 603 car-jacking incidents in the city of Chicago. It jumped to 1,416 incidents in 2020, an increase of 135%. Note that mask wearing for Covid started late March 2020. At first people blamed it on Covid and criminals wearing masks. Then the car-jacking rate kept increasing after Covid was over (and no more masks), up to 1,800 in 2021.

There's more than 2,000 car-jackings in 2022 for the city of Chicago alone, an increase of 44% from the previous year. The rate jumped up more in 2023. I get tired of hearing how cops & car-owners got shot during catalytic converter thefts, and daily reports of carjacking.

Can't blame that on Covid, since the problem gets worse even after Covid is over. Can't blame the increase from population growth, since people are moving out of Chicago. From the web: "Illinois saw the largest departure of state residents in the nation during 2021, with 68% of Illinoisans who moved saying goodbye and heading for more affordable locales, a new study found.

The annual migration report from Allied Van Lines and Zillow found this trend was reflected in the state’s largest city, Chicago, which reported the most outbound moves of any metropolitan area in the nation. The 2021 report marks a record-setting 8th consecutive population decline for Illinois."

In Jan. 2021, carjacking occurred only 13 min. from me. A woman sat in the parking lot of Wendy eating her hamburger. Two men forced her out. They made her lie face down on the pavement, then shot her. She's paralyzed for life. My daughter's school district advised students how to cope with carjacking, for the first time ever. Note that IL legalizes weed on Jan 1, 2020.

Naperville (15 min. from me) was voted as #1 safest city in America in recent years by Wallethub rating. Naperville annual income is $127,648. Naperville is NOT in the crime-infested city of Chicago, it's 1 hour away.

I have lived here for 30+ years and I never heard about carjacking in Naperville until recently. Consider that the price of weed in IL is $351 per ounce as of 2023, and Covid economic hardship & mask-wearing is over.

I listen to Chicago news daily, and I never heard about car-crash involving kids using marijuana until recent years (2021-23). I look up the statistics out of curiosity. I heard the same warning on the news about the effect of weed on accidents BEFORE Illinois legalized weed on Jan 1, 2020. So, it's old news.

"Calling weed a gateway drug is fair, if only applied to all other substances that are in the same category—which includes alcohol and is, by far and away, the leading gateway drug. Nobody calls it that tho when you give your 16 year old a beer."

Bingo!

Booze is by far the most insidious drug we use/abuse, mainly because it's regarded as "benign", with terms like "social lubricant" applied to its use.

I know a lot of lifelong weed users who have never touched another drug. Most of 'em regard alcohol as an unacceptable substance for its destructive properties.

In Maryland, weed will be legal on July 1st. I'm more interested in being able to legally grow 2 plants. I'm curious if I can grow a decent plant. If I did, I'm not sure what I would do with it. I still have kids at home. Wonder if growing and then destroying would send a better message than never growing.

Straw, did you read the full articles that you just linked? The motor1 and iihs articles?

Yes, I read both of them, and I hope others read them too. Alcohol is cheaper than weed & drugs. I don't know of anyone carjacking for a glass of wine.

Checking on the price of weed for 2023, from the web: "The average cost of an ounce of weed in the U.S. is $280. Do not be surprised however if you get it for as high as $420 or as low as $252 in some places."

I never drink nor smoke. Never use weed nor drugs. I am allergic to sulfites in wine. Cheese & bread is addictive for me, but it's dirt-cheap .. no need to rob anyone for a slice of pizza.

I am curious, then, to know why you chose those two articles to post when talking about how you feel like legalization and marijuana are making places unsafe? Some different quotes that I've pulled from your links suggest that using marijuana does not actually make the road less safe, and that the increase in crashes are from people who are reportedly combining weed and alcohol together before driving, not people who used weed alone, which has not been shown to increase crash rates.

"Crash rates spiked with the legalization of recreational marijuana use and retail sales in California, Colorado, Nevada, Oregon and Washington, a new study by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) and another by the affiliated Highway Loss Data Institute (HLDI) show.

However, the preliminary results of a separate IIHS study of injured drivers who visited emergency rooms in California, Colorado and Oregon showed that drivers who used marijuana alone were no more likely to be involved in crashes than drivers who hadn’t used the drug. That is consistent with a 2015 study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that found that a positive test for marijuana was not associated with increased risk of being involved in a police-reported crash."

"Despite those increases in crash rates, studies of whether marijuana itself makes drivers more likely to crash have been inconsistent. The latest one from IIHS — which used data collected from injured drivers in three emergency rooms in Denver, Colorado; Portland, Oregon; and Sacramento, California — showed no increased crash risk associated with the drug, except when combined with alcohol.

Researchers conducted surveys for more than a year, interviewing and drug-testing more than 1,200 patients in total. The results showed that the crash-involved drivers weren’t any more likely to self-report or test positive for marijuana alone than other drivers who weren’t involved in a crash and were at the emergency room for reasons other than an injury."

And from the other article, two sentences after the single sentence you quoted, it states "It should be noted that the study doesn’t attempt to say marijuana was the cause of these crashes. It merely indicates the increase of drivers testing positive for THC after the crash". Without this part of the paragraph, the quote you pulled seems a bit misleading.

My purpose of posting is NOT to mislead, but to alarm folks of the dangers in any drug. I am grateful to God for being spared of an accident which happened 2 min. from my house. I was delayed by a phone call, and missed the accident by 30 min. A teenager was on weed and not alcohol, he stole a car, then ran the red traffic light, and severely injured someone else. It happened at 4 pm on Sunday. I read about that on the news afterwards.

Weed relaxes and emboldens kids to do foolish things. Here's the big pic. presented by Forbes, dated July 21, 2021. Any debate or argument should be done with the below sources:

Crash Rates Spike After Recreational Marijuana Is Legalized, New Studies Show (forbes.com)

" Injury and fatal crash rates jumped 6% and 4%, respectively, in California, Colorado, Nevada, Oregon and Washington following relaxation of marijuana laws compared with other Western states where recreational marijuana use was illegal. Insurance records showed a similar increase in collision claims after marijuana became legal.

Those are the main findings of two new studies released on Thursday by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, a nonprofit financed by the insurance industry.

“Our latest research makes it clear that legalizing marijuana for recreational use does increase overall crash rates,” David Harkey, president of the Insurance Institute and its affiliate, the Highway Loss Data Institute, said in a statement."

I’ve been reading this discussion on substance abuse with interest and sadness. Probably it has touched every one of our lives in some way or another and brought pain and frustration. We could all share stories of how it has impacted our lives, I’m guessing. Kristine, my heart bleeds for you, knowing how much a mothers heart yearns for her children… and knowing we are unable to make choices for them. I will keep her and you in my prayers.

I’m no expert on the subject for sure and don’t pretend to be, but I believe there is a legitimate use for every substance on the planet; and a way to abuse every one of those substances. In a perfect world, everyone would use wisdom and self control. Obviously, we live in a very broken world. Alcohol and marijuana and many other substances DO impair judgement and there will be bad choices and accidents from those under the influence. We could endlessly discuss which of the many substances are worse, and whether or not such substances should be legalized or criminalized. I’m afraid I’m going to sound simplistic here, but is it really the governments fault if we have a drug problem? Making a drug illegal simply means that law-abiding citizens will refrain and law-breakers will abuse; and that was the problem in the first place. (I don’t want to be venture into politics.) I think their job is to protect good behavior and punish wrong behavior. It is our responsibility as citizens to live responsibly. Obviously, there will always be those who make poor choices and make life difficult for themselves and innocent children as well as others. It is our job to come alongside those people and try to steer them in the right direction…too few will take advantage of the help offered them, but some will! As our society becomes more self centered and self focused, conditions will degenerate. It is the cycle of the nations in the history of the world. But there IS Hope for everyone who reaches for it, I’m convinced. Otherwise, we might as well all self-destruct.

Straw, that Forbes article is almost an exact copy/paste of the iihs article in many places. The quote you just pulled is soon followed by "However, despite crash increases, research has been inconsistent regarding whether marijuana itself makes drivers more likely to crash. The latest Insurance Institute study, for example, which used data collected from more than 1,200 injured drivers in three emergency rooms in Denver, Colorado; Portland, Oregon; and Sacramento, California, showed no increased crash risk associated with the drug, except when combined with alcohol."

My literal job is a Data Analyst. I can tell you for a fact I can pull data from sources and broaden certain points and eliminate others and report them as facts because they are. If I was the CDC or FDA or AAA or any other alphabet agency, private or public, then I can report factually on something I purposefully manipulated for my own interest. Just saying. Sometimes people just want to hold onto some belief so badly that they can’t see the forrest through the trees.

Sorry about your ceramic pots. I am not sure if security cameras would help in the future. In my previous college town ( crowded suburb), I have seen stolen car, stolen package stories often on Next Door app. We moved to a far suburb on acres a couple years ago, the nearby neighborhood have had stolen cars also. Last summer from security cameras I saw a stranger drove slowly passed our gates into private driveway looking around, we has security cameras installed on the property as soon as we moved in, he left without getting out of car. Same thing happened at our weekend place in PA. For a while no one lived there during the week, we saw strangers drove into our circular driveway checking out the place. We put security camera sign out at the entrance to stop them, that worked well. You can get those signs on Amazon, put one out for now even you don't have security cameras.

@AllSass_CA10b "Sometimes people just want to hold onto some belief so badly that they can’t see the forrest through the trees."

If all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

Sautes mom,

Security cameras do help in areas one may have problems. I am truly sorry. It isn’t right. I am sure your pots were beautiful. With cameras out , I am sure it will better protect your yard decorations. A security camera sign is good, too.

Hi Kitty

Thanks! I don't have the money right now for a security system, (it is definitely on the list) but after my little trash can was stolen off my porch last night, today I bought a driveway alarm on Amazon. It will go off if someone walks by it, so at least I'll know if they're crawling around in my driveway at night!

Carla

I don't want to get into an argument, so I'll just post this and leave it at that. :)

Driving: People who drive under the influence of marijuana can experience dangerous effects: slower reactions, lane weaving, decreased coordination, and difficulty reacting to signals and sounds on the road.

Carla - I think that's a great idea. :)

I think motion detector lights might help too.

I don't know if marijuana causes car accidents but I think it can impair judgement and for some people it can cause paranoia and confusion. Not what young people need in addition to their hormones .

There is a lot of correlation between violence and taking adderall. And some anti-depressants have a warning on them that they may increase suicidal thoughts. I would not in a million years suggest that the only cause of crime is chemical agents.

To me the justification of crime is more ruinous. Not only do I want less crime I would like to see better manners!

These two trail cameras are on sale for $24.98, and $34.98 at Dick's Sporting Goods.

https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p/wildgame-innovations-kicker-trail-camera-package-16mp-21wgiukckr16mplcmtch/21wgiukckr16mplcmtch

https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p/wildgame-innovations-terra-extreme-trail-camera-16mp-22wgiutrrxtrm16mptch/22wgiutrrxtrm16mptch

I got it today, next day Amazon. I put it under my mailbox.

 $20, and it's 20 feet away and LOUD!!

Well see tonight!

Carla

Excellent, Carla! That'll scare the bejeezus out of anyone. :) :)

Hi Rosecanadian

No, the sound comes out of the remote ringer, inside.

 And apparently the sensor goes off when plants around it move, scaring the bejeezus out of ME all night.

LOL

So today's mission is to find a new location for the sensor.

Carla

Oh, I get it!! LOL

Carla,

I think you should console yourself at Green Acres, where they have huge, beautifully grown bud and bloom bushes on sale! Patents are $20, unpatented $17! I bought Golden Opportunity for me, and Sheila’s Perfume for my mom.

Those are amazing prices!

@BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14) I'm looking forward to seeing how Golden Opportunity does for you. I bought it but then chickened out and swapped it for something else at the last minute.

Ben, amazing prices for good quality potted roses!

Ben is that Elk Grove?

Carla,

The list of all their roses is Online here , so if I don’t find a variety at one location, I may try another

The sale is at all the Green Acres locations, but my picture is at Folsom. I was told each location has its own buyer that chooses plants independently, so I visit multiple locations. They’re all good, but I think Folsom is the best, followed by Elk Grove. For all the talk of poor quality plants this year, they have got some really gorgeous fat cheap rosebushes!

I have Ring Cameras set up around my house. We call them the wild life cameras. I have the battery operated ones, but there are solar and wired ones as well. They work well, the only issue is that the wifi signal is poor at times. The spotlight cam might work for you. It has a motion light, an alarm and a 2 way mic. I didn’t get the wired ones because I wasn’t sure I’d like them and didn’t want the solar since you also have to get the little panel. The battery ones need to be changed about every ten days but i have mine set to very sensitive so that drains them quickly. .I wanted them for the creatures lurking in my garden. They've been worth every penny. My daughter says I need a you tube channel for them lol. If it wasn’t for the cameras nobody would’ve believed me when i said bobcats were cruising through the neighborhood! If anything it has helped me to know when i can let the dogs out or if I need to keep the cats inside.

Well they came back for my last Evelyn today. I took a picture of it yesterday because it already had a little bud. I put it in the sun on my driveway at noon, and when I came back out at 1:00, it was gone along with a couple other plants.

I spent the rest of the afternoon trying to make a fence out of some trellises I have, and taking my most vulnerable plants into the backyard.

If I actually ran into whoever is doing this (****things I can't put online)

Carla

I'm so sorry, I think I'd cry if it were me.

That’s awful, Carla. Somebody must be aware of what you’re growing and targeting your yard. They are taking some real special plants, it’s not like they’re cheap and easily replaceable annuals (which would still be very wrong).

I am so sorry, Carla. Ben is right.

I did cry Magpie.

Rage crying, and grief for the loss of my love of sharing my beautiful flowers with my neighborhood. 

Carla

Once is horrible and frustrating. Repeat theft is rage inducing.

I am so sorry that happened to our friend.

I am so sorry, Carla!

Oh my God. That is so effen ridiculous. I’m irate on your behalf.

I am thinking these are not being stolen to sell. Somebody wants the plants.

Sorry to hear that. Can you keep your potted plants in the backyard? Or buy a trail camera for security? Ask your neighbors, they may have security cameras that captured the activities on your driveway.

OMG again?? Sautesmom that's awful. 

I have no idea of the layout of your neighborhood or how busy it is. Is there a lot of foot traffic in front of your house at noon? It's such a small window for the rose to be gone just an hour after you put it out front. It makes me wonder if whoever stole it might live very close by, and possibly has a view onto your driveway from their house/apartment.

Put another potted plant out there with an Apple Air Tag buried in the pot. You'll find out real quick who the perp is.

Paul,

I think that’s the best idea yet. Carla could then decide how she’d want to address it, I bet it’s just one person. I put an air tag in my moving box so I could see my movers were on track. I have one on my dog, too, it works terrific except I feel guilty when my phone tells me that ’Elon has been left behind!’.

Carla, this is awful, I'm so sorry.

This is really terrible. Carla, I think this is a "neighbor" or someone who walks the area everyday. I bet you aren't the only one who has had things stolen. They are brazen to do it in broad daylight. Talk to some people next to you and across the street and see if their cameras have picked up anyone stopping by your driveway. I would post photos of the roses stolen on your Next Door App/site. There were a lot of "Porch Pirates" in my old neighborhood and people started posting videos of them stealing things and they eventually got caught by police. Tge most famous one was the Butt Scratching Bandit! 😅

You could put out a trail cam if you dont have a camera that goes out that far. They are pretty cheap at walmart etc. You would have to disguise it and point it so it only picks up the plant and not traffic etc. I would set up that camera and some "bait" lol.

I saw the news interview on you tube with Dr Manners and the stolen rose clippings. That's so disgusting. So many possibilities there but whoever it was, knew what they were doing!

If you catch the person maybe you could get your plants back. Maybe the police could help if you contact them. The air tag idea is good. If you catch them and confront them there's a bit of risk so maybe police could help.

I hope you pursue the Air Tag approach, but as others have said, do not confront the thief yourself - give that job to the Police. If it were me, I would let the Police know what you were going to do, so they have a heads up about what's happening.

You can be sure its the same person repeating the theft, and you can expect it to happen again, so take advantage of the opportunity to Tag and ID the perp.

Carla, sorry to hear your loss. I agree it might be a person who is interested in your plants. This is really awful. Maybe move the precious plants to the backyard for now until the issue is resolved