Pale Yellow Sweetheart-type Rose ID Inquiry

3 years ago

Hi All,

There is a really thrifty rose growing untended in the alley behind my house -- not only does it get no care, it also survives regular applications of herbicide by the city (or maybe it is the power company) that sends trucks to spray weeds in the alleys every summer. It is large and vigorous. It has prickles on old and new growth, including tiny hooked prickles on the undersides of the leaf stems (see pics below). The leaves are dark green and glossy, and the aspect of the bloom reminds me a lot of Cecile Brunner. It is butter yellow in shade, quickly fading to cream in sun. The fragrance is, to my nose, fruity tea (my first impression was honey). The blooms don't seem to be in panicles like I'd expect of a polyantha. I thought it might be some sort of noisette? But the leaves look pretty modern? It occurred to me that it might be Ralph Moore's Yellow Sweetheart Cl, but that is not supposed to be as thorny as this (and blooms in clusters). What do you all think? I wondered if it could be Alister Stella Gray, but the buds look all wrong. Anyone recognize this? I almost never see anything here besides New Dawn and Drift or Knockout roses, so maybe it is some sort of oddly fragrant landscape rose that turned into a climber? It is lounging on the ground, but clearly would prefer to be growing over the building that it is planted next to.

Thanks for any guesses! I'll try to get more photos soon.

User

3 years ago

'Alberic Barbier' is a VERY full flower. The 9-16 petals is incorrect - I doubt I have ever seen a bloom on it that had less than 35 petals. Perhaps the HMF listing is referencing the original description for the variety (which suggests the rose we currently have by this name is not the original cultivar)?

"The original descriptions of 'Albéric Barbier' are for a semi-double, medium size bloom on almost prickless canes. This does not fit with the plant with large, full blooms on prickly canes sold today."

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Comments (17)

K S 7a Yakima
Original Author
3 years ago
K S 7a Yakima
Original Author
3 years ago

Buds and flowers are butter yellow when not bleached out by the sun:
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roseseek
3 years ago
Cl Yellow Sweetheart is thornless. If that isn't, it can't be that. Plus, Cl YS has much larger flowers and is a stiffer grower.
K S 7a Yakima thanked roseseek
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
3 years ago
Danae looks similar to me. I have Yellow Sweetheart,cl too and that is more upright. My Danae is smaller in poor soil.
K S 7a Yakima thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
Melissa Northern Italy zone 8
3 years ago
That's an AWESOME rose. I hope you plan on taking cuttings!

Sorry, can't venture a guess as to identity.
K S 7a Yakima thanked Melissa Northern Italy zone 8
User
3 years ago
Possibly Alberic Barbier.

Definitely not Climbing Yellow Sweetheart
K S 7a Yakima thanked User
K S 7a Yakima
Original Author
3 years ago
Thanks everyone! Sheila, it DOES look a bit like the pictures of Danae, but it doesn't seem to want to open and show off its stamens so maybe not. Paul, I think it could be Alberic Barbier -- but it seems like there is some confusion as to whether Alberic Barbier has prickles? This rose definitely does!
K S 7a Yakima
Original Author
3 years ago
P.S. Melissa, I do plan on taking a cutting or two and passing this rose around since it is so happy here. :)
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
I have Alberic Barbier too and the blooms are similar to your rose, KS. It is very prickly.

Below is another Danae

Here is La Perle which is another possibility.
K S 7a Yakima thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
K S 7a Yakima
Original Author
3 years ago
Sheila if your Alberic Barbier is very prickly, then I'm guessing that is what this is! In your picture the stems are quite red (which is the same for this mytery rose) and the leaves are very glossy (as are the leaves on the rose here). It does look a bit like La Perle too, however... I'll pluck a bloom later and count petals to see if I can get closer to confirming or denying the ID of Alberic Barbier. Thanks!
Formerly RBEHS Z10A/S17
3 years ago
For a while, I was trying to grow both La Perle and François Foucard to see if I could tell any difference between them, but they both got so huge and thorny I gave up on the experiment. But I think either could have been a match for your mystery rose.
K S 7a Yakima thanked Formerly RBEHS Z10A/S17
jerijen
3 years ago
Whatever it is, I'd grow it in a second.
K S 7a Yakima thanked jerijen
User
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
'Alberic Barbier' has vicious flesh-ripper thorns. Not an excessive amount of them, but they are sharp and hooked and dangerous to handle. The plant is a classic Wichurana style Rambler with very Tea-like blooms, averaging 3-3.5 inches, occasionally larger. Lax canes that will just travel on the ground if not supported, up to 15 feet long. Rebloom is sparse. A very healthy rose that will grow under the most difficult conditions.

I'm fairly confident that what you have there is 'Alberic Barbier'. Plenty of photos on HMF that illustrate the variety very well. There is some similarity between 'Alberic Barbier' and 'François Foucard', but 'Alberic Barbier' is much more common, so it seems a likely candidate.
K S 7a Yakima thanked User
jacqueline9CA
3 years ago
Having looked at Alberic Barbier and La Perle on HMF, I am another definite vote that your rose is Alberic Barbier. Personally, I would take Paul's opinion as conclusive, but I looked at the photos on HMF, and both the leaves (shape of the leaflets, 7 leaflets on AB - not a "modern" characteristic), and the growth habit of your mystery appear to me to be identical to AB, as well as its ability to survive with no care and even attacks from the utility!

Congratulations! That is a super duper rose, and I hope you get it spread around, and keep one for your own garden.

Jackie
K S 7a Yakima thanked jacqueline9CA
K S 7a Yakima
Original Author
3 years ago
I'm also persuaded by the fact that HMF mentions the notably shiny leaves on Alberic Barbier -- this rose has very glossy foliage. Thanks for the ID Paul! Thanks to all of you for helping me out with this question. If a rose can survive here with no care it is really a good rose. I'm trying to puzzle out where I'll put one in my own yard and how many friends I can gift one to.

By the way it has a ton of petals. More than 50 -- I lost count when I got to the really little ones. Is there a rule about rose petal counting? Do you count the really little ones? I'm assuming that the HMF petal count for Alberic Barbier of 9-16 petals is wrong based on the pictures of rose on the site, so I'm not taking that seriously.
Melissa Northern Italy zone 8
3 years ago
AB is a full rose, lots of petals. 9-16 petals sounds totally wrong.
K S 7a Yakima thanked Melissa Northern Italy zone 8