You probably know that you can't price things like this.

I can probably buy a 2 ton a/c system parts (meaning compressor/condenser/air handler) for $3k but it costs $15k to have it installed in a new house.

You also can't call labor and other materials an "upcharge".

You can call the HVAC people charging your GC $8k and you getting charged $10k - a $2k upcharge.

Labor (and materials) is not an upcharge.

$10k sounds about right for heated makeup air.

- extra circuit 240V

- control wiring

- duct work

- labor

- registers/dampers

- GC upcharge

There is a reason most people don't install proper makeup air despite it being a code requirement rather frequently.

You probably need a 20 kw model. This will cost about $3 per hour to run. It will be the biggest load in your house by far. It may push you into a bigger electric panel.

I'm in MN and I was told $5,000 (it might have been for a smaller system though, we don't need that much).

I guess it depends on what they are specifying. If it's a full blown ERV (heat and humidity recovery) then that may be the going rate. If it's just an air replacement system , that's way too high.

The bigger the range, the bigger the hood CFM, the bigger the MUA system has to be. And if heated, the bigger the heat production. I know of one case where it was 17K in MI. That number is not at all shocking when you consider what has to go into the logistics of the whole.

We installed a 1200cfm hood and heated MUA in Colorado. $4000 for the unit, $4500 for the install (in the attic), plus hours for my contractor and electrician to do pre- and post-work. So yes sounds like you are in the ballpark.

All for a vent hood that was $3200. When they say the MUA will cost as much or more than the hood they are not kidding.

Consider whether heated MUA is really necessary. I am in New England and while it is definitely not as cold as the Upper Midwest, it is very common here to install unheated MUA systems. The MUA can discharge into a basement or into the heating ducts where it will be tempered with warm air.

Open a window.  Save $20k!

"The MUA can discharge into a basement or into the heating ducts where it will be tempered with warm air." Code requirements vary from state to state, but the 2018 International Residential Code which forms the core of most statewide building codes requires that "Kitchen make up air shall be discharged into the same room in which the exhaust is located or into rooms or duct systems that communicate through one or more permanent openings with the room in which such exhaust system is located." 2018 IRC M1503.6.1

Doesn't that mean that you can exhaust the air and bring make up air into the HVAC return, so that it gets mixed with the existing and then conditioned via the system and sent back out the supply? Which would seem to be able to be done without a ton of additional ducting and controls.

The IRC allows for make-up air to be introduced into the HVAC system which would make use of the existing ductwork system to distribute it. That said, the HVAC system may not be capable of delivering the required make up air flow rate to the kitchen (open floor plans would have an advantage here.) Further, the HVAC system may not be capable of heating cold make-up air to a comfortable indoor temperature at the required maximum flow rate. For this reason, a dedicated make-up air system, with heating, if needed, is generally preferred. The OP will be well served to consult with a competent HVAC designer (not some guy with a gauge set, a dog and a pick up truck) before investing in a make up air system that doesn't work.

You can do the research to site the installation. Choose and supply the product and a. Insulation b. Wiring c. Electrical Wiring Boxes d. Equipment Supports/Hangers e. Duct work f. Electrical Disconnect Means not included but necessary.

I'm not an expert, but I am currently having a make-up air system installed. My system pulls outside air into the return, which is fitted with a motorized damper that automatically kicks on and distributes that air throughout the house, including into the kitchen where there are two vents. I discussed it at length with my GC and the HVAC installer due to my concerns about potentially bringing cold air into the house. My GC has installed this type of system in 5-6 houses with no complaints or issues.

My understanding is that the primary purpose of make-up air is to avoid unsafe carbon monoxide levels when negative air pressure pulls exhaust from furnaces, hot water heaters, fireplaces, etc. back into the home. So having fresh air distributed throughout the house makes sense to me. That said, I only have an 800 CFM fan, my floor plan is pretty open, and am in an antique house that gets plenty of, er, natural ventilation, so I'm not particularly susceptible to issues.

The idea of discharging into the basement was raised by a different HVAC contractor who was here to service my A/C and was curious about the system. I am not using that method, and have no idea if it's code. It does make some logical sense since the basement is typically where exhausts you don't want to backdraft are located.

When I was looking, it said it was common for code to require heated MUA in some areas. Kind of makes sense, who would run a hood if it freezes their house in a few minutes.

I live in a much warmer area and when I run the hood on a really cold day, the house will get cold very quickly.

Obviously opening a window is not a realistic option in an area with strict codes and enforcement. A $14k range can become a $30k cost.

A 1200 CFM fan will completely empty all the heated air in a 3000 square foot home in 20 minutes. It will affect the temperature long before that, with 1/4 of the air removed, in 5 minutes. If you are bringing in 5 degree air, your HVAC cannot keep up with the heat replacement of that loss, without supplemental heating system, just for that cold air. That is why heated MUA is so expensive. If you open a window, your house is 10 degrees in 20 minutes, accounting for the residual heat of the objects radiating it back out.

I guess I am confused because I have never noticed any temperature issues when running my fan in winter.

You probably have a recirculating vent that is not externally vented. Or have a small CFM vent with a 6" duct, if it is vented. Large pro style ranges with large pro style vents need restaurant level large ducts, large CFM ventilation and MUA.

1200 CFM is a lot. I have something about that size. My cheap MUA can't keep up so I will open a window also. It is like a stiff breeze coming in. My last house had the same size blower/vent/range but didn't come close to actually pulling as much air. This is door slamming air.

BTW - my cheap MUA just runs the HVAC blower and opens a damper to the outside. It was super cheap - just some controls and a fresh air intake. Satisfied the code inspectors. Not truly adequate but I have no combustion appliances except the range so I am not too worried.

If you vent prior didn't freeze the house quickly, it wasn't a real vent (agreeing with DeWayne).

Make up air is necessary so that you're home breaths. A slight positive pressure inside is good. Helps from odors to discharging cold germs.

As stated if you have a heating system that uses ductwork. Mua can be brought into each room. Using a passive system or turn on the vent option for your furnace.

I have a 4" pipe to the outside of our home that goes into the return air phylenm. Where the fan connects. They come with different ways to control with a scuttle. It controls when they open, from a simple bimetal spring to humidity sensor and such. Personally for us I just used an open supply. As I prefer to have a continuous fresh air supply full time.

It's cold in Ak and costs more to heat up but having fresh air coming into our home and expelling old air is better.

And having extra mua available in the kitchen is good. Could be as simple as having an intake air duct near the ceiling in your kitchen with a decorative defuser vent to the outside with a humidistat.

Make up air costs in the sense that there are temperature changes. In the warmer summer you can bring in fresh cooler air.

The total building envelope should have all these considerations addressed. But basically it can be as simple as I stated.

@aklogcabin,

You have confused the need to supply make-up air to a high-capacity range hood (which mitigates depressurizing the home when the range hood is operating) and a fresh air ventilation system which is designed to limit the concentration of indoor air pollutants.

Sure, Franklin, but that’s the aesthetic and luxury we want. We are also having a speed oven, nugget ice maker and fridge drawers as well. That said, we don’t want to pay more than we have to for stuff!

Because it was mentioned. CRH brought up kitchen hood venting and climate control systems for removing air with germs n such. And he's right that they both remove stale air from your home. Just that when you vent the air out of your kitchen it needs to be replaced. There are many ways to do this. From more passive systems that can be controlled for different reasons or needs. To more expensive control units.

The total building envelope will come into play depending on how much temperature differentials outside.

Sounds like the OP has a plan in mind that fits her purpose.

Since you need 1200 cfm, that says your cooktop is likely 8 burners or 6 burners + griddle, and a lot of btus. You are clearly unhappy about the $10,000 cost of MUA. You can ask yourself whether you really need such a large cooktop? Bring it down to a 36" width, which means smaller hood with less cfms, and then the MUA will also be less. Saves money all the way around. You'll still have your "aesthetic and luxury" as you put it. I am just making suggestions in response to your voiced dissatisfaction about the costs of your cooking system.

"CRH brought up kitchen hood venting and climate control systems for removing air with germs n such." No I didn't. You have confused make-up air required for a range vent hood and a fresh air ventilation system for a home which is separate and unrelated to the need for make-up air for a range vent hood.

"The total building envelope will come into play depending on how much temperature differentials outside." The required volumetric flow rate of make-up air for a range hood doesn't care about the properties of the building envelope nor does it care about the temperature differential (which is not the "temperature differentials outside," but simply the temperature difference between outdoor and indoor air. That temperature differential will dictate the energy required for heating the range hood make-up air.

We live in Minnesota, and we were told that the reason you can't bring makeup air directly into your HVAC intake ducts is because extremely cold air coming in during the winter can cause damage to the heat exchanger inside the furnace. It's not designed for those extreme temperatures of return air.

It's interesting because our house was built in 1952, and it used to have fresh air duct coming directly into the return, but at some point it was sealed off. It was probably due to an upgrade that required a code-mandated change.

We solved the problem of carbon monoxide backdrafting by simply replacing our natural-vented hot water heater with an electric water heater. The only gas appliance left in the house is the furnace, which is directly vented to the outside. We also make sure to have

hard-wired carbon monoxide detectors on all levels of the home.