That small grass plant picture is some sort of fine fescue, and it's a year old. I planted last year and that's as big as iit got even into this year. I also haven't cleaned up the pine needles yet this year, but I was hoping to mow the lawn and have the needles come into the bag :)

Whatever KBG you might think you have is gone from years of being shaded out by the trees. About all you can grow in there is fescue. For you in Idaho, you can probably get away with seeding any time of year without having to worry about summer heat or summer annual weeds like crabgrass. I'd get a fescue blend, scatter it on the surface, and walk on every square inch of the seed to pack it into the soil. Grass seed should be on the surface and not buried. Water it lightly, 3x per day, for 3 weeks to get to about 80% germination for your seed. If you see something germinating faster than 3 weeks, then that would be something (weeds???) besides fescue. Ignore it for now. You don't need to fertilize with the new seed, because grass seed contains enough nutrients to carry the seedling for 30 days. However, if you want to fertilize at the same time or soon after, you can use an organic fertilizer, because those take a full 3 weeks to kick in. The timing is just about right for seeding and organic fertilizer going down at the same time.

Professional soil tests just assume that nitrogen is zero. It gets taken up by fungi and roots, so don't read too much into the lack of N from your test.

You did not mention what the pH was from your test, but usually it is the same as the pH of the water you used in the test. In other words, home tests are not very good at determining the pH of the soil.

Thanks for the comment, you're probably right about the KBG. I see one very small patch of it, or what I believe to be it (its very dark green maybe Midnight KBG) but it is in possibly the one spot that gets sun most of the day!

You're correct about the water changing the pH reading. I did tap water, and it didn't seem right so I used Distilled water. With the Distilled water, the test showed basically 6-7. I would say it was a 6.5 on the nose, but I don't know how much the water changes that ( I assume a lot).

I was sure I had responded to this query but I don't see my earlier comments so I'll try again.

Couple things: A soil's pH is determined only by the underlying mineral content and the amount of rainfall received. It has nothing to do with the plants that might be growing........eg., pine trees do not make soil any more or less acidic. That is a horticultural myth.

Second, home testing kits for soil pH are remarkably accurate IF you use distilled water. Home nutrient test kits are not accurate in any respect and not worth the cost. If you want an accurate nutrient assessment, get a professional soil test. Even many of those will not evaluate N as it is the most transitory of the required plant nutrients and levels will fluctuate by time of day and the weather. It is also consumed in the largest quantity and often needs supplementation. That's why most lawn ferts are high in N.

Finally, I would not seed now. Even here in the milder PNW, we have passed the spring window of opportunity for seeding or overseeding and Idaho is much hotter and drier in summer than we are. Wait until early fall.

I'd also recommend finding a cool season lawn seed blend. Blends tend to address a variety of growing situations - sun, shade, drought, duration of summer dormancy, foot traffic, etc. A single type of turf grass offers much less flexibility.

GG, I was wondering why I didn't see anything from you on this.

tristin, heed her words. She's practically your neighbor and has a good grip on timing.

GG, as for a cool season blend, usually those include KBG along with fescues and ryes. Considering the shade from the tree, what kind of blend do you have in mind?

Thanks for the info! At least the pH was accurate and ok, which I was sorta hoping would be way off to explain the problems I've been having.

GG, I really would appreciate tips on a good blend for shade in my area. I previously planted Legacy Fine Fescue blend from outsidepride.com. Do you have a better place I could buy seed, maybe a blend thats a little more turf like for kids? And maybe tips on when to know to plant in the fall? In my area it seems to go from 90's to snowing on Halloween. I will plan on planting again for fall, and try to get my dirt up to snuff before then!

Here is a bit more info, short story long if you want?

I moved into this home in 2020, and the lawn was nonexistent. The ground was essentially a very hard crust. I'm not sure what it was, there was moss in some areas, but this stuff was hard enough that I could sweep the pine needles off with a broom. The first year I had a lot of other stuff going on and I didn't bother with it because it was a disaster anyway. In 2021 I tried to just water the crust, hoping that it was just a huge layer of organic matter that would break down, it helped but not a lot. In May 2022 I decided to work through it, and I aerated and fertilized and planted Legacy Fine Fescue mix from outsidepride.com and also used their soildoctor fertilizer right before planting. I did not tamp it down as Dchall suggested, but I will in the fall when I plant again! The grass came up (mostly the stuff in the plug holes), it grew about an inch, and then stopped. It wouldn't grow tall enough for even a single mow! I figured it was a fertilizer problem, so around mid summer I did another round of fertilizer, just a generic one from a farm store. My lawn turned into a mushroom farm. I had them everywhere, big ones, small ones, long ones, short ones. Even with all of that though the tiny grass absolutely stayed an inch tall and wouldn't budge. So I told myself, "Well I guess maybe next year they will wake up after Winter and decide to grow!" And here we are, still an inch tall and not moving.

I got excited when I read online that pH levels under pine trees are off, and I thought I had the solution! Then I did the tests and thought well maybe if the pH is normal it must be the lack of nutrients! And now I have no idea and I'm back to square one, with one inch grass, and a soon to be mushroom farm.

I can't advise on a specific grass seed blend as the Idaho climate is different enough from mine that seed blends here are not the same formulation as seed blends there :-) For example, KBG is not recommended for my area (west of Cascades) but is well-suited for the drier conditions of eastern WA and ID. A mix that is at least 25-30% tall and fine fescue should cover the shade issue satisfactorily with perennial ryegrass and KBG filling out the bulk of the mix.

Shoot for the second half of September for seeding. Soil is still warm enough to encourage rapid germination but temps cool enough and watering/rainfall more plentiful.

In the meantime, I would focus on improving your soil condition. dchall and I tend to disagree on the best method for that but my suggestion would be to plug aerate again and then spread organic matter in the form of seed meals or screened compost. And maybe do this more than once. I'd also recommend checking with your county extension service to get their advice. They can also direct you to a soil testing lab as well.

My recommendation for softening the soil is to spray it with a clear shampoo like baby shampoo. Generic is fine. Dollar Tree is fine as long as you can see through the shampoo (no conditioners in it). The rate is 3 ounces of shampoo per 1,000 square feet - so if you had 2,000 square feet you would put 6 ounces of shampoo into a hose end sprayer, fill the sprayer with water, and spray it all out as evenly as you can to cover the area. You cannot make a mistake with this even if you accidentally spray at double (or triple) the rate. What this does is allow water to penetrate deeper into the soil and set up the perfect conditions for the soil fungi to thrive. It is the beneficial fungi which soften the soil for you.

If you had mushrooms, then the soil was getting far too much water. There is nothing wrong with mushrooms. They are a good indicator that you need to water less or the Mother Nature needs to rain less ;-)

If you have never used organic fertilizer, it's time. I once had a lawn that seemed to stop growing. I used a chemical fertilizer and still nothing. Then I used an organic fertilizer (at the time it was ordinary cornmeal), and the yard exploded in front of me (3 weeks later). Some/many people simply do not believe that organic fertilizer is a real fertilizer. Here is a picture I've used for 12 years to demonstrate.

The picture was posted in this forum by mrmumbles in 2010. It is a zoysia lawn where he tossed a handful of alfalfa pellets. He tossed them in mid May and took the picture in mid June. You can clearly see the improved color, density, and growth. These are the same pellets fed to rabbits and fish. You can get them at your farm store in a 50-pound bag for about $20 (post COVID prices). The application rate is 15-20 pounds per 1,000 square feet. I toss them by hand from a 2-pound coffee can. I remember this picture did the equivalent of going viral in the Texas organic community. They talked about it on the radio garden shows so much that the next time I went to my feed store, they asked if I wanted the alfalfa pellets to feed rabbits or for the lawn. I was shocked!