Interesting thread, woody. I grew up in a rather gritty urban area. The only fences were chain link, and honestly there wasn't much of a view in anyone's yard that you'd want to borrow lol. (I suppose it did make our postage-stamp-sized yards feel bigger though!) So I do have a prejudice against chain link to some degree. Actually, there is ONE house in my current neighborhood that has a chain link fence dividing it from a neighbor's and I always think of my childhood when I walk by it (and that's a good thing lol).

I think the whole privacy/borrowed view thing is a balancing act. There are very few fences in my area, (although admittedly there are a lot of wooded lots and most yards have a degree of privacy without fencing) and when one goes up, most neighbors are slightly taken aback and wonder why the "new people" did that. However, as I get older (and my newish neighbors' kids get older and louder lol) I do find I would like some privacy. I can't afford fencing, or I might invest in some of the gorgeous fencing I see. Instead I am slowly planting a shrub border which will give me more privacy in a few years. I think shrub borders are much softer than a hard fence line. I also have a big enough yard that closing it off like this doesn't make me feel closed in. That being said I have enjoyed that neighbors row of 15-foot tall rhodies for the 25+ years I've been here. Too bad they weren't ON the property line - my issue would be moot!

My daughter bought a house down the street two years ago. It had a lot that was heavily treed, very heavily covered in shrubs on all sides - you could only see the house as you walked by the driveway and looked down it. The person who bought it and flipped it almost completely cleared the lot. It was actually quite shocking, and I lamented to my daughter about what they did before she even considered buying it lol. Anyway, it's a corner lot and the neighbor behind them is now almost completely exposed and I feel bad for her. My daughter and her husband started looking at privacy options, but I pointed out to them that this neighbor has a quite lovely backyard and they should enjoy it and view it as an extension of their own! They agreed to a point, and agreed to me planting a small shrub border at the back corner of their yard that butts up against the side of the neighbor's house. This gives them some privacy from the neighbor's patio area (and gives her privacy as well) but lets them enjoy the view of her backyard (there is a split rail fence but those pretty much disappear in a vista) I also thankfully talked them out of a fortress of arborvitae around the yard.

While I see your point about the new fence cutting off that feeling of extension, I think it's not a bad-looking fence. I actually think it makes a nice backdrop to your existing garden. I suppose it's more of the sudden change in the "feeling" of your yard that is the issue? Like when you lose a tree and suddenly your whole shade garden is in the sun lol? It takes some getting used to (and perhaps some moving, or adding or subtracting of plants)! And in looking again at the photo, at least from that angle, you don't see much of the fence because of your garden, so maybe you aren't losing that much of a view anyway?

I also think that since you and your neighbors all seem to have wooded/planted yards, the fences don't have the same "cutting off" effect that they might in an area with no trees or shrubs (gosh when I see pictures of areas like that - houses plopped down in a giant open field - I immediately want to plant something for an iota of privacy lol!) But of course that's me just looking at your pictures, not living there, so I understand that you may still feel affected by the fence.

Maybe you could add a few more shrubs or plants along the new fence to soften it more, and plant now along the property lines (all of them) so if and when a fence goes in, you will already have that living border and the fence won't feel so intrusive or claustrophobic. Sorry, guess there's not much anyone can do about a taller house though lol!

It will be interesting to hear others' thoughts on this!

:)

Dee

Beautiful gardens! The wood fence if in good condition wouldn’t bother me. But construction of a much taller house next door that changes the growing conditions in my yard would be sad. If the house next door comes up for sale, are you in a position to buy it as investment property so you can maintain its current size?

How large is your yard? It doesn’t look small from what I can see in the pictures, but I live in coastal So Cal where lots are relatively small. I’m not a fan of chainlink fences so I’m not much of a help. But I see your point about expanding the views.

You've made it clear that it all depends on the lot. A chain link fence with lots of greenery around it can be attractive. The average chain link fence is ugly and provides no privacy.

We had a neighbor who cleared his very small backyard of a huge number of weed norway maples. It was a good thing because they were shading everything and weed seeds blew everywhere, but after they were chopped, it reduced our privacy a LOT. The guy sold it promptly, but I don't think it was intended as a flip. He was moving back from France, but it turned out his French wife and kid didn't like Maine much.

I can absolutely understand how in some situations, having a chain link or wrought iron or split rail fence provides the appearance of the land continuing rather than the abrupt stop at a privacy fence.

However, out of the two houses I've lived, both of them have at one time or another had a neighbor with an aggressive small dog that attacked my dog through the fence. As in, barking furiously, throwing itself against the fence every single time my dog was even outside (or sometimes even if I was outside alone) and one of them even bit my dog through a worn hole in a wood fence. I also have a neighbor right now with a child that tries to tease and harass my dog and myself by spraying us with a hose or making barking noises, despite having a fence. So for me, I will usually prefer a privacy fence to protect my dog. I have worked very hard to keep her from being dog aggressive (as a shepherd she's a natural protector) and a small dog can easily bite her through a chainlink fence.

As far as what you personally can do, I'm sorry to say that the majority of this is out of your control. Any neighbor can sell their property at any time or change their mind and install a privacy fence on their property and there is nothing you can do about it. However, I do think being a really good neighbor goes a long way to making someone not feel the need to install a privacy fence.

• Do not let any pets or children harrass, intimidate or especially fight with any neighbors or their pets. Monitor children and pets outside since they might not be behaving as you expect.
• Maintain a beautiful yard, as you already are. Perhaps they too will see the beauty in how the yards connect together.
• Be considerate in how you use your yard in terms of where you build living space and how you use it (no outdoor TVs, keep music and voices reasonable volume, etc) so that your neighbors don't feel a need to gain privacy or separation.

I wouldn't have an issue. Their yard, their fence, NOMB. Even if I might be disappointed to lose the view, I'm not entitled to it- and they have more of a right to address their needs and desires for their property than any of my notions. I don't find the picture with the solid fence bothersome, but if it's an issue there are always things to be planted to hide fences.

Worrying about what kind of fencing there might be or a house rebuild done after the neighbor dies might be moot at the moment. Is the house in poor shape that it needs to be torn down or are you in an area where a sale means a tear down and rebuild that this is a concern?

Our lot is about 1/4 acre - which makes it not small in a usual urban/suburban context. But I grew up on my maternal grandparents farm-going-back-to-bush (Grandpa was 80 when I was born…) on the east coast of Canada. When I look at that place now on Google Earth, I almost don’t recognize it - there are too many houses…! Our nearest neighbour when we lived there was at least 1/4 mile away! So I’m still used to more extensive views.

Even our previous house backed onto a park so that gave us long views. The fences between us and the neighbours on either side were chainlink so views were not restricted.

Black-coated chainlink is much preferable to the silvery stuff. Green chainlink tends not to be good either because it is usually the ’wrong’ colour green so doesn’t blend in. The neighbour behind us on the SW replaced their fence a number of years ago. They told us in advance that they were going to do it and wanted to use chainlink again. They obviously expected to have to argue with us but were very happy that we said ‘OK - as long as you use black chainlink’…

I think, properly used, chainlink combined with good planting gives better privacy and also a more attractive look than a wood fence. But many people are looking for easy low maintenance options that don’t require much thought or care…!

The fence behind us now is not too visible when our plantings are in leaf - but in winter and early spring it is more visible. I hope the wood will ’fade to gray’ eventually which should make it less visible. There is a path and perennial plantings between the fence and the shrubs near the lawn, which also helps hide the fence when the shrubs are in leaf. I’d like to use broadleafed evergreens to give more winter hiding but most seem to need acid soil and ours is neutral-to-alkaline. Does anyone know of a good, hardy broadleafed evergreen that would survive our conditions? That’s the only thingI can think of that might help…

Design Fan - the thought of buying the neighbour’s property has appeal but not at our ages! (Plus I’d have great fun with renovating etc. but DH would get very stressed….)

Woody, I understand how you feel. We have a 1/4 acre lot that is similar to the size of yours. There are small lots here in a neighborhood that is flat with no change in grade, with mature trees in many yards. I find it claustrophobic. A trait I believe I got from my Mom, who had an issue with spaces that were claustrophobic. She always bought a house with an open layout and large rooms when she could get them. Lots were always about 1/2 to an acre of land.

We moved a lot. My Dad was in real estate and he was buying and doing some cosmetic updates and selling for a number of years. The first 3 houses we lived in were in the city, small lots with barely a backyard. We didn’t care, we were at that age where we were happy to live in a neighborhood with a lot of kids and we played all over the neighborhood. So the first two I didn’t notice. The third city house was on the top of a small hill and it was an older house with high ceiling and a third floor and I could go up to the third floor and look out a large window and could see everywhere.

After that we lived in the suburbs with larger lots and often a change in grade on the property.

So when I moved into my current home, I found it claustrophobic from the start. And the neighborhood as well, because I can’t see the horizon really. But our lot, to me, is one of the best we could have picked, because it’s the only one that has two properties behind us that meet in the middle of our lot at the back of their lots. So we don’t have a house directly behind us looking onto our property. And we get an extended view across their backyards. So when we replaced fence about 36years ago now, we put 6ft stockade along the sides and post and rail along the back to preserve the extended view.

Like Dee, chain link fence reminds me of my childhood and all the urban neighborhoods we lived in. It was always plain metal, not a nice black like I see in some of your photos. Often it would be pretty rusty and out of shape in some places. And the yards they were surrounding had no gardens or anything of interest. Too often it would just be a mess you would be looking at.

So, chain link would never have been something I would have chosen for fencing. I saw it as very industrial looking.

I do understand your concerns about change in your neighborhood and how it impacts you. We have been fortunate to have the same neighbors around us for a long time too and not any major changes that affect us. But we do have one neighbor who is definitely not a gardener or even an outside person. I think if we have seen anyone in his household in the backyard more than 10x in 30 years, that would surprise me. I don’t think they own a hose. They have allowed bittersweet and poison ivy and Norway Maple seedlings to just do their own thing. Luckily they decided to hire someone to clean up a little about 5 years ago and removed a lot of tree saplings and some of the PI, but they have a line of 8 Spruce trees that are mature at this point and planted about 5 ft from our lot line and from each other. They are all disfigured and missing branches, have stubs where branches used to be. One is completely dead and the others are on the way to that.

I don’t know whether to look forward to a change of owner or not. Lol I’d welcome someone just removing all the plant material and starting over, but - in our neighborhood they have started knocking down older houses and putting up houses that are 2x the size on the same 1/4 acre lots. Whatever zoning laws used to be in place, seem to be ignored. So if they do move, I could end up with a huge house 10ft away from our fence and nothing in their yard but lawn. So I am very happy to have a 6ft stockade fence along our property line there, although it really doesn’t screen out most of what we don’t enjoy, the dead trees.

So, I would probably feel the same as you when solid wood fencing replaced your nice looking black chain link fence, but at the same time, I think we are all so different and I can also understand that someone might want a wood fence.

At any rate, I think you have a wonderful property and views from your house. So many mature trees and shrubs that are great screens. I think you will get used to the wood fences and find ways to work around them to continue to have views which you love.

I’m a slow typist so I was typing while pricklypearcactus and beesneeds were posting….

I worry about what kind of dogs might be moving in that need a wooden fence…! We have a small poodle that ’failed’ as a Dog Guide and was sold as a pet - he is good with people but not very good with other dogs…. There are also coyotes in the neighbourhood that are problems for both people and pets. For safety we do not let our dog out unless we are with him. Previously we have had two dogs that were ’rescued’ dogs so we are comfortable with dealing with dog issues. Actuall, when we moved here in 1999 there had never been a fence on the north side and the neighbour (who still lives there) didn’t want one! But the dog we had then was a ’rescue’ that was …. umm… unreliably friendly with strangers - so we needed a fence! A chainlink fence satisfied all our needs.

This neighbourhood was built in the early 1960s so, while the original houses have been well maintained, most are torn down and replaced with bigger ones when they are sold. There are currently 6 houses either torn down/under construction or waiting to have that happen. When we bought this house in 199 we did an extensive renovation and addition and garden building - but it would be a teardown now if we sold it as it is not big or fancy enough for the current market!

• my back yard is 1/4 acre & i wish i had a 12' wooden fence. above ground pool to the east with the deck piled high with flotation toys & trash everywhere. every time time i start to get the creeping charlie held at bey it creeps under the fence from their yard AGAIN. by august the pool is a green sludge & mosquito larva fest. that's when i go to the bait shop & put 4 dozen minnows in the pool to eat the larvae. when it sludges up ducks will drop in for a swim. last year the owner told me the duck poop must have contained fish eggs cuz they had fish in the pool. GRIN

pm2 - I was typing the comment above when you were posting…

When we were younger, I would have loved to have a 1/2 acre lot…! Now that 70 is in sight for both of us, coping with 1/4 acre is becoming an issue… *sigh* I think the fence issue might become, practically speaking, low on our concerns list *sigh* The neighbour’s property has several of the big conifers like you mention and those affect what we can plant back by that fence too…..

We had to go to the ’Committee of Adjustments’ back in 1999 because a small part of our planned addition was outside the frontyard setback limit. The Town staff recommended approval and said our proposed changes were not ’detrimental to the neighbourhood’. I guess that is the best we can hope for when the neighbour’s property changes hands :-)

Your comments on the neighbour is a good description of something I see that worriesme - there are too manyhomeowners who have no interest in working outside creating a garden! I’m not sure what can/should be done about that…!

rober49: :-) re the fish in the pool! Fortunately none of our neighbours have a pool. Pools are a waste of garden space IMO and I have a friend who had a grandson drown in a small ornamental pool - which makes me extra wary of them… So all the problems you list just seem to be additional reasons to be wary of adding a pool in the backyard - especially since so many people seem to have little interest in outdoor work!

Definitely an issue around here, Woody. I had a black chain link fence that was great because those do 'disappear' and our sight lines were not brought to a full stop by a wooden fence. One particular neighbor was quite disparaging of the fence and of us as well for having it. Won't tell you what i think of her. She put up a wooden spite fence about six inches on her side of my fence. Now the weeds and bamboo have become inpossible to get to between the two fences. I have ended up with a 6' wooden fence at the back of our property (which I hate and am planting more trees to hide) because a developer has clear-cut the three acres of old growth forest that used to be our view. What I need is a 20' stone wall...around my entire property. Every new neighbor that moves in seems to think wooden fences are the be-all-end-all of what one should have. I hate it.

I suspect chainlink suffered from a bad reputation of the old days when I was growing up and fences were few between neighbors except in cities. They were not very lovely then-mostly utilitarian. With the advent of coated ones that can be black or dark green, I think they are wonderful for allowing us to have that visual flow you mention and we can all borrow our neighbors' lovely spaces.

Cyn - fingers crossed for (an unlikely…?) change in fashion…! Properly done, chainlink has a lot of potential….

I have a completely different perspective I think because I live smack dab in the middle of a large city. Soooo, I appreciate the privacy of a wooden fence Lots are close together and small compared to many of you who are more urban. We get along great with our neighbors yet we both like our privacy at times.

I personally dislike chain link fences and much prefer a wooden fence or shrubbery fence. I understand with dogs and young ones that link fences may be better. I agree with the first poster about trouble from tomorrow. Good luck with your situation!!

debra

Both chain link and wooden fences are fine in my eyes. Which is better is completely subjective and depends on the setting -- both can be attractive or unattractive. In the photos you posted, I think the wooden fence looks quite nice, gives a private garden sort of feel and makes a nice backdrop for your plantings while gently blending into the surroundings. Plus, do you really want to look at the big honkin' hunk of a grey house on the other side of the fence? The wood fence is much nicer to look at IMO.

why i'd like a 12' fence

We’ve been here since 1999 so have years of time when there was just a chainlink fence at the back - and the view of the house there never bothered us - even when it was rented for years to someone with two small dogs…. The wood fence does not give us ’a private garden feel’ but rather makes us feel imprisoned in a smaller space! ‘To each his own’ and all that…

rober49 - to me that picture is a perfect example of a wood fence failing to provide ’privacy’. What I think would be preferable is a black chainlink - or black aluminum or iron if you want to spend more $ - fence on the property line covered in ornamental vines, with shrubs and ornamental trees further back on your property to provide more screening and color, with a mulched path between the fence and shrubs/trees. That would give you more privacy while also being more interesting, functional, and aesthetically pleasing. It looks like you have lots of space to work with there. But I have certainly come to realize that my taste in gardening things tends to be not the common one :-)

the problem is that both houses have walk out basements so everything is elevated. the view pictured is from my bedroom window. from ground level the upper deck & floaties are still visible. a chain link would expose everything from ground level as well. we started out with a chain link fence. a row of thin tall trees like a poplar windbreak might help but at my age i wouldn't live long enough to see the results.

Yeah, time re how long you plan to stay somewhere, and age are factors. We have been here since 1999 and we intended to stay a long time from the begining. We also started planting ornamental trees (which are shorter and mature faster than taller ’generational’ trees that do not appeal to us now that we are in our late 60s… ) Although some of the ornamental trees are only now reaching mature sizes, they have all been significant contributors to the garden within a few years of planting, and the shrubs got large pretty fast. Our house is on higher ground than the neighbor to the south’s property so we have a good view into his yard from our ’home office’. Trees would be the only effective privacy option but, given that he is in his 90s and the house will likely be a tear-down on his death, there is no point in him planting anything now. The neighbours to the north are roughly our age but are avid gardeners too so continue to plant things that interests them. Their deck gives a view into our yard but we don’t mind as it just enables garden discussions :-) Their kids are young adults now and do not live at home. When they were small, there was always a skating rink made in the backyard in the winter for them - it was interesting to watch them learning to skate!

The neighbours to the north were suspicious of us at first as we were from ’the big city’ and planning an extensive renovation/addition. But we all like each other now….! It’s important for neighbors to be ’neighbourly’ even if that doesn’t mean hanging out in each others kitchens :-) We are on friendly terms with many neighbours but are not ’close friends’ with any of them - but being on good terms makes discussing all sorts of issues easier.

I think there's such a huge difference between a silver chainlink fence and a black one--the silver ones remind me of a prison yard, but the black one almost disappears.