What makes you think it isn't De la Grifferaie? It was used as an understock, so fairly common.

Wow, this is one of the closest suggestions I've heard in a month! I've actually not heard of de la Grifferaie. Most of the characteristics on the Royal Horticultural Society page for this rose, as well as it's history as common rootstock give me hope. That said, "Dark stems are almost thornless and bear coarse dark green leaves." The leaves are light apple green until very mature and the thorns are big and nasty! I'm not ruling this one out yet. Thanks a million for the suggestion.

This is the problem. 90% of the photos I see online are lighter pink blooms. And this video of the original chateau where the rose originated shows heavy, quartered blooms much larger than mine. Things are so inconsistent. I'll keep digging into Grifferaie to learn more from a reputable source. It's in the running if the blooms are as small as mine - 1.5 - 2 inch scant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GD8VxKIhaU

This owner of Chateau de la Grifferaie shows a definitive style bloom that is not like mine at all. Mine are almost like a pompom, if you look at the single bloom photo above, the one on the right in profile. So full that they extend back beyond the base of the bloom. http://www.theordinarygardener.com/blog/2019/11/3/25yrm3fgp3kzhur3mnu9d32pdw1xoy

Ali - yours does look like de la Grifferaie to me - the leaves on mine do get a darker green over time. I just posted a recent pic of mine on the "de la Grifferaie" thread above. Here is another one I also took a few weeks ago - it is simply the other side of the rose. dlG is once blooming - I don't think you mentioned if your rose is?

Jackie

P.S. The red blooms are Cramiois Superior.

Odds are its either 'De la Grifferaie' or 'Russelliana'.

I'm with you on those. Russelliana was my first guess about two weeks ago. And I slowly talked myself out of it due to conflicting information online, some of which disambiguated my own rose. I just ordered two different rose encyclopedias and will keep studying until I'm happy with my guess!

Here is a good closeup of my leaves.

Jackie, how are the thorns on yours? Mine are pretty knarly. Grabbing my clothes!

Yet according to this blog, "Graham Stuart Thomas describes de la Grifferaie. ‘Possibly a hybrid of Rosa multiflora with one of the Old Roses, bearing clusters of fully double, pompom-like, magenta-cerise blooms fading to lilac-white, deliciously scented, on long arching branches. The colouring is certainly reminiscent of Gallica Roses, but its frayed stipules and coarse, rounded leaves soon identify it. Nearly thornless. 6 feet by 5 feet.’" If not for the nearly thornless statement he would be describing my rose TO A TEE! And her photos show blooms that look nothing like mine. Ugh!

http://www.theordinarygardener.com/blog/2019/11/3/25yrm3fgp3kzhur3mnu9d32pdw1xoy

Oh, and I don't yet know for certain if it's a single bloomer. I suspect so. But since it didn't bloom much last year (I fertilized it this spring) I won't know until the fall. I'll watch and report!

Here's a diagnostic clue: If there are frills on the stipules (at the leaf base) then its more likely 'Russeliana'. If there are no "multiflora style" frilled stipules, then its NOT 'Russelliana'.

Ah!! "frills on the stipules!?" Thanks for this new tip.

My rose has frilly-ish stipules...thoughts? (I don't know a good stipule frill, myself.)

As to de la Grifferaie, looking into the stipules, I also see that it has red wood and curved thorns. I'm seeing neither on mine!

I also see a Zone 6 limit and I'm in Zone 5, just two hours south of Montreal. We get 30 inch snowfalls and -15 degree days in the winter. Doesn't phase this old girl!

I think R. Russelliana is pulling ahead as our potential winner.

Ali Peacock and Paul - I think I was not paying enough attention to Ali's location.

I have 2 bushes of what has been identified as Russelliana, so I just went out and took some pics. The blooms below are the last ones on a very young baby bush which I have in a pot. Note the apple green leaves. Ali - what is the diameter of the blooms on your rose? I have a mature Russelliana (20 yrs +), and the blooms on both of my bushes of Russelliana are way smaller than dlG's - maybe 1 1/2 to 2 inches. It is very prickly - some of the smaller canes have prickles every 1/4 to 1/2 inch or so. My dlG has prickles, but they are about 5 inches apart.

The second pic is mature leaves I just pulled off both roses. Note the nice dark green color! The leaf on the right came from Russelliana, and the leaf on the left from de la Grifferaie - they are exactly the same dark green, but the Russelliana leaves are rounder. Sorry I am so ignorant, Paul - is that what you mean by a "frilled stipule" on the right hand leaf (Russelliana's)?

Ali - you can drive yourself crazy trying to compare roses to written descriptions about roses in different places, especially old roses, as the colors of the leaves, blooms, and wood can change over time depending on their maturity, and sometimes the weather. If Paul agrees, then I think your rose is NOT de la Grifferaie, as I understand it is quite tender (I don't know, as we are zone 9/10, and it is very happy here). I vote for Russelliana.

Jackie

This is so helpful Jackie! We seem to all be in agreement about Russelliana. I‘ll keep you all posted.

@jacqueline9CA Yes, that's what I mean by frilly stipules! (I think the correct word is "fringed").

@Alli Peacock I suspect what you have is in fact 'Russelliana', but if by chance it does something uncharacteristic (like: reblooming) then its back to the drawing board.

'Russelliana' is capable of producing clusters of blooms in which the first ones are a medium/dark purple/lavender, and the subsequent blooms grow paler till they are pinkish-pale lavender. This rose does have an excellent "old rose" fragrance, and a healthy amount of thornage.

Not exactly color correct in this photo

Thanks, Paul! One thing I thought of when trying to describe the bloom is that it reminds me so clearly of a camelia. When I look at your photo i see ALMOST a quartered bloom, or at least knotted in on itself. Hard to capture on thd bush, but if you look at the vase of blooms in my post photos you might be able to tell how simple the bloom style is.

Also, in both your photo above, Paul, and Jackie’s i see red cane highlights. mine are exclusively green.

Notice also that my stipules are wholly green. Both of you have red stipules and stems visible. I cant find a spot of red anywhere on the bush!

This almost white bloom popped day before yesterday. it is not fading, it bloomed that way.

And this is the shape of my bush: about 5-6 foot tall with a waterfall of arched canes. it does not lose its shape. 8 foot wide with shooter canes.

Don't get too hung up on names. There is nothing wrong with calling it something like 'Alli's Pink Rose'.

The truth is that a lot of old rose names are messed up. Before plant patents became a thing for roses, it wasn't uncommon for a rose to be sold under more than one name, and for unscrupulous growers to deliberately sell mislabelled plants, not to mention the usual accidental mislabels. Also, a fair amount of the gardening public didn't necessarily understand the idea of a cultivar. So if a seedling showed up that looked superficially like the mother plant, it might get passed around under that name.

Re the red tint on some of the leaf stems the leaflets grow from - I went out again to look at my 2 bushes, and 95% of both of them have green what I am calling leaf stems. There are some which have that red tint, but 100% of those are relatively new growth, and all of the rest of them on the bush are green.

Re the growth habit: many times in my garden a rose which is not supposed to be a climber has gotten way taller, with a more open growth habit, if it is in a lot of shade, vs bushes which are in full sun. I have a guess about that - they are programmed to need sun, so I think shade makes them start hunting around for some way to get more sun, and they throw long canes out which flounder around, and if they touch a support up they go. I have had both climbing roses and small bush roses do this in shade in my garden - just a thought. Your bush looks so elegant and graceful vs my mature one which is in full sun, and has stayed 5 ft tall for many years.

Jackie

Love hearing your thoughts, both of you! Im still adjusting to growing roses in Zone 5, after almost five decades of Texas rose gardening. This old girl has seduced my oldest daughter (the new homeowner, I live in an apartment on her property) after zero interest her whole life. we’ll definitelt fibd a special name for her eventually!