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Dark grout due to insufficient mortar??

2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago

We are having an issue in our recently remodeled master shower where sections of grout are not drying out and staying dark. We’ve been using the shower ~3 months but the issue started after the very first shower; it spreads with each shower and now affects not only the shower floor but also the curb and wall grout. Our contractor and 3 others (second opinions) are stumped based on visual inspection with the naked eye. The only thing they commented on was that grout was used at the changes of planes, which I have already requested be removed and replaced with silicone/caulk to be in accordance with TCNA guidelines.


The obvious possibilities (preslope, weep holes, grout mix, sealant) have pretty much been ruled out.


The problem in areas does dry out with a hair dryer, only to come back. Some areas do not dry out…assuming that means perhaps a lot of water behind?


The problem affects 3 different types of grout and 3 different surfaces—plus both sealed and unsealed grout—so I figure one common denominator is the mortar. I was looking back at progress photos (see below), showing what appears to be spot bonding and certainly not 95% coverage; unfortunately I didn’t know this was against standards at the time. After Googling, I found a few websites describing our exact grout problem as a result of insufficient mortar so I’m confident this may very well be the root of the problem (https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/blog/insufficient-mortar). Plus, we had several issues with the tile/grout work already, including two hallow-sounding floor tile, so this “fits.”

Our contractor has repeatedly stated it can’t/shouldn’t be puddling water, because it would drain down due to gravity. (Can anyone comment on this?)


I did buy a pinless moisture meter with masonry setting on Amazon which is giving high readings, but not sure how reliable it is?


Finally, please know that I did my due-diligence when choosing our contractor. We went with one of the most highly reviewed and highly rated remodeling companies in our area (licensed in our state) with countless recommendations from neighbors and on community forums.


We are so frustrated and just desperate for answers. Any insight is greatly appreciated.









Comments (11)

  • 2 years ago

    " because it would drain down due to gravity. "


    Not if the floor is not properly pitched. They call then "bird baths", you have standing water, and the water does not drain properly, casing exactly what you are experiencing.

  • 2 years ago

    Thank you for responding. What about the walls though?

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    When you see errors like the spot bonding makes you question the whole install. Do you have anymore photos from during construction? I would guess no pre slips but that’s just a guess.

    HU-659037316 thanked HALLETT & Co.
  • 2 years ago

    Thank you for commenting. And no kidding—this is the worst feeling with the amount of money we spent and consideration we took selecting our contractor. With some of the other problems we had, I wonder if the worker assigned to our job had ever done tilework before. 😫

    Our contractor states a preslope was done, and I have a photo that appears to show this as well. When I asked the 3 second opinion contractors if they had concerns about the preslope (or lack thereof), none of them were concerned about that at all. They all were confident that that if that was the case, you’d see tiles popping up and lots of water seeping out. Im trying to attach the photo to this comment but my phone or the browser must be glitching.

  • 2 years ago

    The spot bonding on the wall tiles is 100% wrong. It is not indicative of a quality installation. If walls are properly prepped, plumb, etc., getting >95% thinset coverage is not difficult. I don't care that your contractor came highly rated; the sub he hired for the tile install obviously is not.

    HU-659037316 thanked HU-867564120
  • PRO
    2 years ago

    Lack of mortar coverage creating voids containing condensation. No repair. 100% contractor error. Mud base should be level around wall perimeter. Appears cement backer board buried in mud bed. Moisture will wick up the walls into the wall cavity. A capillary break of sealant is required between mud bed and CBU (cement backer unit).

    Sorry for your situation. Workmanship shows zero experience.


    HU-659037316 thanked Creative Tile Eastern CT
  • 2 years ago

    @hu867564120 oh i know and i agree. i just have seen comments on other forums that you get what you pay for, that people need to do more research, etc etc….trying to somehow place the blame on the homeowner. What bothers me most is our contractor has even gone so far as to say: “We have been doing this for 20 yearsand have plenty of experience to back our methods so please be assured that what you have going on is easily corrected and that nothing was done incorrectly.” They dont understand this means nothing when the guy on the job does not have that much experience.

  • 2 years ago

    " We have been doing this for 20 yearsand have plenty of experience to back our methods "


    20 years doing it wrong is still wrong, just with 20 years of experience doing it wrong.

  • 2 years ago

    @Creative Tile Eastern CT: I have read the same thing about the cement board being embedded in mortar bed…unfortunately my contractor will more than likely say there is nothing wrong with doing it that way.


    It’s unfortunate, even if our contractor agrees to redo it all under the workmanship warranty, I have ZERO confidence anymore. I don’t want them to do the repair but that’s where our money/warranty is. Think i could stand a chance if i took legal legal action if it came down to it?

  • 2 years ago

    I don't know where you live, but I imagine your state has a Notice and Opportunity to Cure statute that governs remodelings. There needs to be notice to the contractor, and certain deadlines apply before you are able to file a lawsuit or your case will be dismissed. If you are serious about litigation, contact an attorney before hiring someone else.

    HU-659037316 thanked HU-227031627
  • PRO
    2 years ago

    Creative is correct in his assumptions. We all have to assume without xray vision but decades of experience as trained ”professional“ tile contractors results in some reliable experience/knowledge. Doubtful the GC has been using this same sub for showers for 20 years with no problems. Regardless, it’s on the GC to tear out and replace using a qualified tile professional who will perform the work to industry standards. You’ve already been on the CTEF website. Delve into it again for more information about how to identify a qualified tile contractor . The National Tile Contractors Assn also has a section on thier website for consumers with similar resources. CTEF is an ”arm” of sorts of NTCA. Require that the new work is performed to the industry standards, which means your GC better hire someone who underdstands ANSI and approved TCNA methods. Also take photos as it’s torn out for documentation if needed. There are certified consultants if needed, but that can get pricey so start by arming yourself with information and stand your ground. Consumers should expect work to conform to standards. There is every indication yours does not. Sorry you’re dealing with this.