I blamed NO ONE. I asked what it was, what was damaged, what was upside down and who if anyone, was there?

In 32 years, no stone going into any home I've been involved with, didn't have a

someone, a human body, within the structure at point of install. Build, remodel, new, old regardless. Why? Generally, there is a balance due on install, to be paid by.............someone.

Just a clarification on the right to cure. In most states a contractor has a right to cure any defects. However, that doesn’t actually mean you have to allow them to repair anything. It just means that you have to give them an opportunity to propose a solution and a reasonable time to implement that solution. If they make an excuse instead of proposing a plan, such as saying ”this is normal,” then you don’t have to allow them any other opportunity. Nor do you have to allow them to attempt a repair if you don’t find a repair acceptable.

Example: Suppose the company (RT) proposes a repair, but another company says they need to be replaced. You don’t have to allow RT to attempt the repair before hiring the other company to replace. However, if you allow the new company to do the same repair then you can’t sue RT for the cost of the repair because you didn’t give RT a chance to do the repair they proposed.

Moreover, you don’t have to negotiate with them. They get a chance to propose a remedy, if it is not acceptable then you have satisfied the right to cure. The OP notes that the company has until Monday to agree…that likely satisfies the right to cure.

This sounds like blame to me, not stopping the install..."It was not possible to refuse the stone in any room at point of install, and request it to be back on the truck in the moment?"

"It was not possible to refuse the stone in any room at point of install, and request it to be back on the truck in the moment?"

There is little advantage to doing this and several disadvantages. The homeowner can be held responsible for costs and subsequent damages if the rejection was inappropriate. While they can’t be held responsible for costs and subsequent damages if the installation was inappropriate.

The advantage of a homeowner being present is that they can answer questions that arise during the install. The disadvantage is that the homeowner may not be the most appropriate party to answer those questions and those answers have consequences.

Did anybody back at the very beginning discuss the characteristics of this stone when you were selecting it?

To me, this stone looks like it would fall apart at the edges when cut, but that would just have been my guess. I would hope that a yard/fabrication place would bring up the potential pitfalls of any difficult-to-work-with, or easily damaged/stained or hard-to maintain stone, both for their own protection and so the buyer would understand it as well.

So, these pictures may be close up, but really I don't think the top Three chips would be acceptable to me at any distance. A chip 20% of this size would not be acceptable to me at this location:

Totally agree with rebunky. PROFESSIONALS know their stuff more than the homeowner. It's simple. Buyers have a reasonable expectation that their goods and services providers will provide them something that is fit for purpose. If there are known issues with the customer's selections / asks, it's a responsibility of the PROFESSIONAL to let them know there are risks and challenges with this. The PROFESSIONAL can also choose to not do business with that customer if the customer's materials, expectations or demands are not something they want to sign up for.

This fabrication / installation (who knows where the damage occurred....) is in no way acceptable or normal. I would be willing to bet it was installation that was the issue. My stone supplier was great - and the fabrication was great (we went to see the shop and met the lead fabricator to came out to the site to measure / test fit some things) but they farmed out installation to different folks (I kinda wonder if it was anyone with a truck, A frame, a couple of friends and a caulking gun,..) . So I had 2 different installation experiences. Ultimately, they both came out great - but it was a little touch and go with the second round guys.

I hope this works out - it's going to be really hard to repair those big chunks if no one saved the pieces. (and listen to bry on your obligations - do also stand firm and don't be bullied)

If you install thirty tops a year or more? You soon find out it is extremely common to have installers not even overly fluent in the English language. It is a trade commonly employing quite recent immigrants to this country, from far flung locales no matter where you reside in this country. It is for whatever reason......commonplace.

If you arrange a stone yard, to send slabs to a fabricator, they truck those slabs, and unless they are very inquisitive at the stone yard, they don't much care where you, the final customer are going to use those slabs.

The fabricator owns the rest of the process from template to layout of the slabs to cut/polish. His installers are not usually the cut/polish guys, they are simply the final result of the install. From the moment it is loaded onto a delivery truck, to the final caulk in the house. If you asked for a list of what can go wrong in that process? It is too long to type.

@JAN MOYER - Why does the list of things that can go wrong even matter? The homeowner probably isn't running an English language class in their home, so they aren't going to suddenly fix the installers' fluency in the English language. They are not picking up the stone from the stone yard themselves, they are not caulking the counters. There is absolutely nothing a homeowner can do to stop any of those things from going wrong. So exactly what advantage do you have from being there? This is a real question...

The homeowner is not responsible for any of those mistakes unless they are at the home at the time of install and agree that it is acceptable when put on the spot by someone that you note is barely fluent in the English language.

In reality, the homeowner is FAR MORE LIKELY to partially indemnify the installer/fabricator for a bad result than they are to change it into a good result.

Chippy stone is one thing and small, relatively inconspicuous repairs are just part of the deal. Big missing chunks is a whole other deal. This is not acceptable. I'd contact the fabricator ASAP to see what he will do to make it right, up to and including a complete re-do with a different slab.

The advantage, to someone, anyone being there----- is the refusal/complaint in the moment. Right then and there. To call the shop, say" Good afternoon. Listen, we're here with your guys, and we've got some serious issues with the tops going in. Some broken, big chips and others -I'm having them bring these back to the shop, or advise please"

No different really, than your brand new couch being delivered with a rip in the fabric, a blob of whatever on that couch. You really need the "in the moment" communicated or even refused. No matter whom shall do the communicating. The shout down later, after the truck pulls out? Is rarely as effective. Sorry, it just isn't.

^^ It's too late at this point, what's done is done. This needs to be made right.

They're pushing back and saying this is normal.

With this stone, I would agree that this is normal.

You need only to look at that stone to see that it is risky. At one time it was a pile of gravel that somehow got sorta' fused together.

I would say that repairs should have been made before it was delivered. But, for all we know, those flaws could have happened sometime after it was fabricated. Like during loading, transport, unloading and putting into place.

It is stunning and, if you love it, you need to be prepared to accept the risk that Nature didn't glue it together perfectly, that chunks will come unglued and will have to be pieced back together. The repairs won't be perfect because the stone was never perfect. Accept that. It is a work of Nature and not mass produced plastic perfect.

No, this is not "normal", regardless of the type of stone. I have seen many chippy-type stones with lots of mica and fissures get installed and look good, and not look like what the OP posted. For the people saying this is "normal" or saying what the OP should have known or should have done or should have should have should have, would you find this counter installation to be acceptable in your house?

@JAN MOYER it doesn't take a PhD to realize that when the OP was talking about the stone being "upside down" she meant the vein direction, not that the reverse unpolished side was used.

@snyderjames724 this counter installation is a do-over. No fabricator/installer could say that what you have is OK to leave as a job completed. However, since the installation was so bad to begin with, and you are getting pushback from them to make it right, it is a possibility they will not make it right and you will be stuck with it. Try to talk with them, but not as an attack and with anger (though I would be furious), but try to calmly get the owner to look at the job and see how it is unacceptable and a do-over.

There are a thousand threads on this site similar to in one way or another, to this thread. Chips, dings, backwards, gaps, vein mismatch/alignment, seams, silicone error, too wide, too this, or too that. Innumerable in fact.

You want to be upset that it is simple truth that there are just as many reasons as this thread for any counter top install of any solid surface going "wrong" ? Well? There are.

Ten times as many words have been typed to these pages by me, by hundreds of others, for selection, for process et al that might mitigate potential issues. Number one is communication, number two is to have a human being at the install. Not the dog sitter or cleaning lady. Just about anyone else who has your best interests and your hard earned money at heart. Life sucks.

But if you've ever rented a car, and had to circle that car with a pimply faced 21 y® old agent, looking at any microscopic "thingy" on that vehicle.......take the pen to the Ipad, apply your scrawl and initials as you freeze in the breeze? Same thing. You don't get handed the keys without the idiot process.

You have this habbit of pointing out things that could have prevented a problem after the problem has already happened. While you may intend that to be a word of warning to others, the verbiage you use, your exaggerated ellipses, etc. always make it seem like you believe the OP deserved this.

Utah has an $11,000 limit for small claims and I strongly suspect that nothing the OP could donon that day would be as effective as a small claims filing.

The vast majority of posters here who post with a problem, are dealing with a once in a lifetime, or maybe twice in a lifetime build or reno. They have no experience and even if they have tried to educate themselves and prepare, there is no possible way to learn of every possible problem or outcome. And I agree with Bry that your scolding of posters again and again for what they didn't know, or who they hired, or who they didn't hire is really offputting and not helpful. Solutions are what people seek, not blame or shaming.

It is not "blame"! It is not scolding. It is just remodel and building life! Do we believe this poster is the only one who may ever stumble on the thread?!

I am present for all installs unless have a competent "other" in my absence.

Just recently, a schedule mishap, resulted in installers alone on a tricky fireplace, a contractor ill, contact missed a text and email request for re schedule.. A fairly vast screw up ensued, totally new slab taking three weeks and eight more weeks to template, cut install, which held up the entire project finish.

This turned into quite a ride... I appreciate all of your responses. I was present for the install. I let them into my house and gave them space to complete the job. The next interaction I had with them was them yelling "we're done" as they walked out the door. I walked upstairs to catch them as they were walking across my yard, and they repeated "we're done". That was it. They spoke very little English. I am fluent in Spanish - caught them cussing for nearly the entirety of their time in my house, and also laughing at how much of a mess they made of my toilets. They had just left my toilet seats up and urinated basically all over the toilet. That part irritated me heavily but is obviously easy to clean up, and I highly doubt I could prove they did that. The damage I did not notice until after they left, and immediately contacted the salesperson who facilitated my project. I am hoping they offer to allow me to keep my deposit, and to voluntarily remove what they've installed. I really don't trust them to be competent enough to do the job right the second time, but we will see what they offer me tomorrow. Thank you all for your responses.

For those asking, this slab was called 'blanc du blanc', and is also very similar to 'patagonia', 'patagonia extreme', and 'patagonia exotic' stones I saw at other slabyards.

UGH....... that too: ( !!! Drives me insane!

Atop the fact that in any fabricating shop? The local builders are ahead of you in both time and attention paid. As big an issue as the toilet seats, I'd say.

In the future, if workmen are laughing about peeing all over your toilet, then they are also very likely to not give a crap about what sort of installation they do. Set the expectation at the beginning, particularly since you are fluent in the language that they speak.

Regarding a lawsuit, be sure that your attorney files the proper notice and opportunity to cure for your state or you risk having your case dismissed.

@snyderjames724 please update. That is absolutely not acceptable. Half of the comments on here were ridiculous. I hope they remove and refund you.

Yes any updates?

I also wanted to apologize that (even for one second!) I thought your granite looked similar to my MIL’s IG granite. Hers is pretty, but the BDB…… Wow!!! Stunning!

There is no comparison! I see why you fell in love with it! I sure hope it works out and they will remove it and give you your $ back, so you don’t have to go through the hastle of small claims court. Let us know what happens.

I would also love to see photos of your kitchen when it is all finished. 💕

I hope there is an update as well. This is clearly a problematic stone but no way would a reputable installer just walk away as if this was acceptable. I have slowly learned what stones will fail or develop big rust stains and try to steer my clients away but even if I missed it I would not expect my installer to walk away from this proudly.

We could all agree on that , Hallett. But post pandemic syndrome lingers on.

Every shop here is short on installers, EXTREMELY short on the experienced. The turn over is huge, and it takes training. One of my shops took to tagging them , after finding they were horsing around smoking joints for a couple of hours between two installs.

No, you can't make it up.....

My former counter company had the entire crew walk out and move to a different company. That was awkward. Hopefully the OWNER will take responsibility...

I had blanc du blanc granite in my last house. We had no problem with the installation. Over the years, we had minor surface chipping near the sink. It was otherwise bulletproof.

@ Hallett

Same thing happened here! UN believable......

I have Brazilian white granite also, with mica and crystals...fabricator said that it was a very tough job to get right (the colored areas would flake while most of the stone is quartzite hard). It has been perfect for 3+ years now. If you end up needing a new fabricator, I had a great experience with Cobble Creek Countertops recently.

The stone suppliers will polish up any rock they can dig out of the ground. Designers and homeowners "ooo" and "ahhh" at all the pretties at the slab yard and unfortunately fall in love. It doesn't matter how much you tell them that marble etches and stains, that certain quartzites are so porous as to be unsuitable for countertop use, some stones are gonna rust, and some are going to chip. They don't care; they are in love.

Were I a fabricator, I would have to choose between the cost of having to tell a regular client designer "No." or having the cost of fabricating, installing, and repairing chippy stone. Let the designers and homeowners take their business elsewhere. They'll easily find someone stupid enough to fabricate their trash slabs and probably get a better price doing it. Me, I'll be sleeping like a baby at night, knowing I'm proud of every single job I've done.

Quite luckily in this area? The several major fabricators are also the slab source. Do we have a few outlier slab only? Yes.

Does it matter? Yes. Finding the first variety if you have it in your local area is best - their sense of "ownership" is different. They sell the material, they template, review, cut and polish, and install. They're well aware they "own' the process start to finish- want good results as much as you do as nobody is fond of mistakes in the remnant field out back.. You will get far more hand holding, more advice to include warnings as " fine for here, not for there" usage of any , material.

You may go in their warehouse and not even see some of the crazy wild slabs you might find at a distributor......for a reason.

When you have a choice, that's the way to go, and the slab distributor who does no fabrication is a second best.

The fabricator to agreed to rip out and redo the whole job. I chose a much simpler stone that I don't like nearly as much, but hopefully they won't screw this one up. They also made me sign a form saying I would remove all negative reviews about the company. No wonder all their reviews are positive. I am noticing all sorts of scuffs and minor damages to my floors/walls/cabinets from the original install job, so I am terrified of how the second install will go. I'll let you all know

Great news! Thanks for the update. I understand your fears, but here’s hoping the install goes well this time!

Just out of curiosity, what is the name of the replacement stone you picked out?

"No wonder all their reviews are positive."

Yeah, funny thing about that. As a possibility mentioned by a contractor for freshening up a wood floor, I looked into a cabinet/floor refinisher that used to be associated with Home Depot that promises great results with little pain (no sanding, no dust, done in a day!). Has franchises/outlets nation-wide and NONE with less than a perfect 5-star rating. (Kind of like Lake Woebegone, where all the children are above average...). That alone should make alarm bells ring! Reviews of their work on Houzz were, of course, far less than stellar, and no way was I going to let them anywhere near my floors. Online reviews have become meaningless.

"Online reviews have become meaningless."

Yep, pretty much. Especially when 'bots are writing so many of them (if not the majority of them -- most notably consumer goods).

OP -- glad you're getting a re-do. I'd still be concerned, though -- will you have recourse if the re-do gets jacked up?

Interesting about having to sign to remove negative reviews. What if they goof up 2nd install? You can't warn others? If you aren't satisfied, I'd be inclined to leave up negative reviews and let them tell a judge how you were coerced into signing so you could get their shoddy work redone. And then they did shoddy work a 2nd time.

Glad you're getting a redo, but I'd be miffed at being asked to sign away my right to post an honest review. And what if you don't? You're being held hostage in your own home by these yahoos, so I really hope they do a decent job for you this time around. (But seriously, they damaged floors, walls and cabinets in the install process?? Where's your remedy there? Oh, but take down your review, please! Jeez.)

Glad to hear you are getting a redo.

Since you signed an agreement to not post negative reviews, consider editing your original post to remove the installer name and location to avoid the thread showing up on an internet search.

I believe that signing that is uniforceable.

You trust them w/another redo? I'd go w/someone else. there is no reason why you can't have the stone you want.

The fabricator to agreed to rip out and redo the whole job. I chose a much simpler stone that I don't like nearly as much, but hopefully they won't screw this one up. They also made me sign a form saying I would remove all negative reviews about the company.

BTW, you are under no obligation to hold back on reviews. Sign a paper? They MADE you? How? they said they wouldn't redo it if you didn't sign? sounds like extortion. (I'd actually get written proof of them saying this. "we'll redo it if you sign this and remove the poor review." )

And what do you get for signing? Oh, they promise to do a good job? Are you serious w/this?

tell them to shove it.

What was the name of it?

Yours almost looks like it is composed of onyx.

(each place has their own name, but sometimes you get the legit name of it)

This one is similar. It's Splendor gold granite

as you can see, the edges are beautifully done

(leathered finish)

Take a photo of anything you sign asking you to remove a bad review so you can include the image with your new "good" review.

They also made me sign a form saying I would remove all negative reviews about the company.

Wait until they have finished the job, then give them a copy of the FTC page on the consumer review fairness act.

https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/consumer-review-fairness-act-what-businesses-need-know

It is not legal for them to restrict a customer's right to write an honest review.

I understand they can't enforce the 'no negative review' form, but me signing it was a contingency of them even redoing the initial install. I was awarded my down payment back through a bank dispute, but the fabricator required me to repay that initial 65% deposit back to even consider redoing the install. I also tried asking them if they'd consider nullifying the contract and going our own separate ways and letting me have another fabricator undo their work and do a new install. They refused. They said they were out of pocket for $5K in materials and if I didn't agree to let them redo the job then "this wouldn't turn out good". If the redo isn't acceptable, I already have demand letters and legal proceedings ready to go. I'm simply hoping they come redo the initial install, do a good job, and we can move on. I've purchased multiple homes, have put a significant amount of money into upgrades, and this is by far the worst consumer experience I have ever had. Just a mindblowing experience. I've talked with friends about this place, and a handful of them have had similar experiences/know someone who's had a similar experience. There are even reviews on local supplier pages (not the fabricator page itself) about horrible experiences with the fabricator, some of which are almost identical to mine. I'm guessing they leave negative reviews on the supplier pages because negative reviews disappear quickly from the fabricators page.

I also tried asking them if they'd consider nullifying the contract and going our own separate ways and letting me have another fabricator undo their work and do a new install. They refused.

They refused. They said they were out of pocket for $5K in materials and if I didn't agree to let them redo the job then "this wouldn't turn out good". If the redo isn't acceptable,

"I chose a much simpler stone that I don't like nearly as much, but hopefully they won't screw this one up. "

Why the different material?

Thanks for the update. Hope round two is smoother.

The Consumer Review Fairness Act doesn’t cover settlements. In a settlement silence can be the consideration… essentially, they are agreeing to replace this without the time and expense of going to court, while you agree not to write a negative review and remove all current negative reviews.

I was given a one-star online review by a woman who was not a customer. Imagine reviewing a restaurant after only having driven past it.

Just a warning - get EVERYTHING in writing with these clowns. After telling you "it wouldn't turn out well" my gut tells me they are shakedown artists and trying to intimidate you. DO. NOT. LET. THEM.

I don't know your legal limit for small claims - but this group is pretty representative and logical. If this Houzz group thinks you are in the right - you are in the right and likely a judge would agree.

Only proceed if you are 100% sure you want them AND you want the new stone.

I really don't like the way they are operating.

hope it works out!i’d be inclined to after the fact write a 3 star review stating the facts of what happened including making you sign said paper. i’m assuming there’s no gag order…