Who can we contact to help evaluate contractor work that's been done?

2 years ago

Greetings! - PLEASE - if you can't help lecturing or being unkind....please keep scrolling. Life is hard for us all--and it's easy to vent anonymously---but many of us aren't pros---and the process of renovating is difficult, expensive, stressful, and it's very hard as a woman to get support and help--rather than criticism, mocking, scolding, and derision. Please---no need to "correct" me on my tone---or tell how to write a more "pleasing" post. I don't need links to articles on how to be a nicer little lady (thanks anyway, anonymous person who did that earlier). We need assistance! And when I have been very humble and posted---I've gotten battered and badgered on Houzz..and I honestly can't take more beatings. Thanks in advance for anyone who can be supportive (and if not, pls just scroll by). Thanks!

My elderly Mom and I have had work done at the house. It was estimated to be $20,000. The work is almost complete but there's a lot of sloppiness and things we're not happy with and the bill just came for $42,000.

The contractors have said they will send over the foreman to go over the "completed" work and for us to point out anything that needs tweaking.

Without getting into too much detail---what we need is someone SKILLED and knowledgeable to come through with my Mom and me (not the contractors) and give his or her assessment of the work. If my Mom and I do, we know the contractors will pooh-pooh what we say and make excuse after excuse. We are not pros so we can only give and opinion and we can easily be talked down to.

So---we need to hire someone who can cast a critical eye to the work as a reality check for us and say, for example

"They shouldn't have used a paint brush here but rollers because there are brushmarks going in 3 directions here" or

"You're correct. They did not buy the light plates you wanted--this is an inferior product and they charged you top dollar and then upcharged you 2.5x" or and this is a big one

"They did not hang these pocket doors correctly--they should not be wobbling back and forth, hanging in the air like this" and another big one

"The cut the holes for the pulls on the doors wrong and they cracked the wood and tried to repair it with glue, and yes, it is very possible to do this work without breaking the wood on the door" or

"No, they should not have charge you $100 to hang a 2'x3' mirror in your powder room."

If we bring these things up--as I said--the contractor and his men and/or the owner will tell us we don't know what we're talking about and get angry.

For those saying this doesn't happen, or only happens if women are a b^&** it is not true. We are constantly expected to accept what we get and not say a word negatively, and if we do, they start overcharging and taking it out on you emotionally--and deny they are doing it--AND blame you for being difficult.

So-----who does one hire-----we are in a very small town in a small region in a small state---where everyone knows everyone. We are willing to go outside our region if need be to get expert objective dispassionate help in evaluating the work that was done before paying this very high bill.

By the way, they didn't send a nice letter with the invoice, or break it down in a discernible way---it just arrived with today's date saying Due Today--and it's just a huge long list of parts and codes and numbers and abbreviations----is that normal? Can we ask for a more user-friendly invoice?

We're heartbroken over this....please no scolding---no pretend "I'm telling this so you can learn"---just please answer our inquiry. How can we find help in assessing this contractor's work?

(We do not need whoever it would be to actually MEET the contractors---we just need someone knowledgeable to help us evaluate the work)

Thanks very much for all honest, kind, helpful responses!

Featured Answer

bry911

2 years ago

last modified: 2 years ago

Sorry this is so long... I am trying to be thorough.

Plenty of people, both men and women, find themselves in a similar situation. Unfortunately, it seems all too common for contractors to underbid jobs or oversell their quality in an effort to get your signature on the contract.

So first, I am concerned about the job growing from $20,000 to $42,000. There may be legitimate reasons for that, but often it is more than a little sketch. Moreover, while most clients just pay to get out of the ordeal there are often legal protections in place if the consumer is willing to take advantage of them. So what state are you in?

There are basically three types of contracts (1) fixed-price, (2) cost-plus, and (3) time and materials.

In a fixed-price contract the $20,000 would have been the price to complete all work they were contracted to complete. Fixed-price contracts can grow as the scope of the work changes but typically these changes have to be handled via change orders, which are basically smaller fixed-price contracts that should be presented prior to the work beginning but when necessary may be presented shortly after that work is commences. So in a fixed price contract you should be able to calculate the entire price of the job as the original contract plus all change orders provided in a timely manner. In a fixed price contract you generally have the right to see all the change orders but no other detailed billing.

In a cost plus contract the contractor's duty to the client is a bit higher because the client is absorbing more price risk. In these contracts the work is done at cost and the contractor adds a fee (often a %) for the management of that work. In contract law "cost" has a very specific meaning... it is the amount actually paid less any discounts or rebates. So in a cost-plus contract if the contractor pays a subcontractor $1,200 but gets $100 rebate then he must bill you $1,100 plus his fee calculated on that $1,100. Because there is a higher level of trust in a cost-plus contract, the customer has the right to see all invoices that were paid to suppliers and subcontractors, and even the right to verify those amounts.

A time and materials contract is most suited when one firm will do all the work without subcontractors. Typically, these contracts are materials at cost and labor at a specified unit rate. These types of contracts are often abused for several reasons. Contractors often just add mark-up to their materials rather than passing along the actual legal contract. Contrary to popular belief time and materials contracts are not actually for the time spent on the job, they are actually for the time reasonable and necessary to complete the job. So a contractor can't take 14 hours to complete a 4 hour job and just bill you the extra amount. Because they are the most abused they are also the most regulated by states and some states (California for example) have banned time and materials contracts for home improvements. In a time and materials contract you have the right to a complete breakdown of that job, the time that job took, and the materials used.

----

Now for the next part... Getting help with assessing the work. I have never found it particularly difficult to get one contractor to talk bad about another contractor's work. I have found it difficult to get something in writing. So I advise looking for someone to repair the work rather than someone to help you prepare for a meeting. Simply note that you want to know what is wrong and what it is going to cost to make it right. Leave your new contractor out of the dispute with the other contractor. I have had really good luck with recommendations from lumber yards (not big box stores... actual lumber yards). They interact with most contractors and will often tell you who they hold in high regard and may be able to tell you who they think may be willing to do it.

Take notes on what this contractor tells you is wrong and use those notes in your discussion with your existing contractor. If your existing contractor disagrees with the assessment simply ask them to put it in writing. Making a contractor memorialize things is often pretty effective at cutting through the B.S. It is easy to tell you a lie when there is no proof of it, however, that lie in an email can be used against them and they know it. You can do this in a confrontational way and simply say I don't trust anything you are unwilling to write in an email or text, or the non-confrontational way and pretend you just want it in writing so you can understand it better because you are a bit confused.

If you can't find a contractor willing to come on short notice, a home inspector with a contracting background is a great option. If you are near a populated area you may be able to find a construction manager or construction inspection service to help you, but they can get pretty expensive.

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Comments (14)

millworkman
2 years ago
You need to find and pay another contractor, if you will find one who will do this service, many will not as they would not want this done to them. Especially in a small town.
Zippy Dudar thanked millworkman
millworkman
2 years ago
" and it's just a huge long list of parts and codes and numbers and abbreviations----is that normal? "

Depends on your original contract type and verbiage.

" Can we ask for a more user-friendly invoice? "

You can ask, but again it comes down to the type contract and agreement you made up front.
Zippy Dudar thanked millworkman
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PRO
Patricia Colwell Consulting
2 years ago
This will be big hunt to get one contractor to critique another . Do you have a really good friend who knows a good contractor? I live in a small town where everyone knows everyone and we have some pretty bad contractors for sure. I am sorry but how did this get to double without you knowing what was being added. Constructive criticism is good and should be taken as real help and as awoman you need to learn to be assertive and arm yourself with as much info as possible so you can sound like you know. The abbreviations you can look up on the internet so you know what all of those mean. Is there a building inspector near you? If you can find one they can at least help with what all the abbrevitions for sure. I know you will not like my answer but at least it might help for next time.
Zippy Dudar thanked Patricia Colwell Consulting
Lorraine Leroux
2 years ago
I would suggest a home inspector or the city official that will sign off on the permits (hopefully permits were pulled if they were required?) Don't be pressured to pay unless satisfied however you may have to pay some till rectified so it shows you are willing to pay for work done but not all till the flawed work is corrected. Check with your state/township/county about hold backs-what you can legally hold back. In my area it is 10%. Did you have a formal quote for $20,000 and it is now $42,000 without your signed approval and a work change order? Get a lawyer to look at ALL your paperwork.
la_la Girl
2 years ago
In a small town, I might start with a local lawyer who has a very good reputation (hopefully there is one). I am longtime friends with many small town attorneys and its amazing all the different ways I have seen them help families

Hopefully the lawyer can find a way that you can apply pressure on the contractors to fix what’s needed (they likely won’t fix everything so I would prioritize a short list of the most important)

so sorry this happened to you
Zippy Dudar thanked la_la Girl
PRO
JAN MOYER
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Search contractors fifty miles away.

Say that you are willing to pay for travel and a look see at some reno. Maybe that costs you 400.00

Or...............much better?

You can CALMLY call the foreman. or you can write a letter, equally calm tone . State that you need an onsite review of the work.

State that while you do not want to be unreasonable, you are not inclined to write a check until the invoice has been fully explained, and until quite a few corrections have been made.

Life is unfair, and I capped "calmly" because life is indeed unfair: )

We all realize you are frustrated. We aren't privy to the contract, nor the scope of work involved. We don't know if it was underbid, or you were in fact overcharged for anything. We know nothing!!!

But if you go at this with your demeanor at fists balled up, and outward from your chin as your post reads? You will be dead in the water at the get go.

That is brutal truth. : )
Zippy Dudar thanked JAN MOYER
PRO
DeWayne
2 years ago
"Estimates" are dead in the water expired before demo happens these days. It's not even 30 days of holding a price anymore. Most are 14 days, if that. You can never get enough job estimates and start within a window of them not being expired. So, first thing on any reno is: Expect it to cost more than you expected. That's just a given. You need at least a 15% contingency fee.

Your overage is well above 15%. That issue is one that only an examination of your contract can address. This is where your lawyer steps in. Contracts monetary issues are separate from the quality of work issues that you have concerns about. But the contract should also state something about the industry standards.

But, the charges you are talking about sound about par for the course. $100 to hang a mirror was 10 years ago. There's a lot of risk in mirrors, and hitting plumbing vents, etc. Materials are always always always marked up, to handle the logistics of ordering, receiving, etc. Electrical covers are incredibly cheap. Specialty ones are also frequently on back order, and place holders can be used until they arrive, etc. Most of these issues are front end issues, with the contract, and change order procedures, and costs. Most contractors charge administrative fees for change orders, plus the cost of the materials, labor, and profit. If you have a $100 allowance, and you choose a $150 product, you may end up costing yourself $300 for that "$50 change". There's the admin fee, additional material cost, additional labor, and the contractor profit.

The quality concern can only be estimated to be valid if pictures are provided.
Zippy Dudar thanked DeWayne
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
2 years ago
I am completely qualified to perform this evaluation in person and will submit a written assessment at completion, however, I live in Florida. You'd have to pay to fly me to you and back, probably overnight expenses, and a fee. Probably 10% of your 42K I'm guessing.

It could be a terrific value if the report is intimidating enough that they back down. There could be more expense if I have to return for expert witness testimony in court.
Zippy Dudar thanked Joseph Corlett, LLC
Kendrah
2 years ago
If your existing contractor disagrees with the assessment simply ask them to put it in writing. Making a contractor memorialize things is often pretty effective at cutting through the B.S. It is easy to tell you a lie when there is no proof of it, however, that lie in an email can be used against them and they know it. You can do this in a confrontational way and simply say I don't trust anything you are unwilling to write in an email or text, or the non-confrontational way and pretend you just want it in writing so you can understand it better because you are a bit confused.

Unfortunately, I have had contractors lie to me in writing as well. They don't care that it can be used against them. They know how much lawyers cost and that on small jobs, most of us are not going to hire one. My husband is a lawyer and contractors are willing to lie to him in writing too.

I would not cop to being confused or pretending anything. Don't give your power away that easily. But you can write an email confirming what you believe needs to be done and ask for his reply to each item. I have spent weeks and weeks going back and forth with emails that insult my intelligence and threatened to sue me!
Zippy Dudar thanked Kendrah
bry911
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
I should have been more clear, once you have something in writing, you have something actionable to evaluate. I never meant to imply they wouldn’t lie in writing, but at that point you have something that can be used to evaluate against quality standards.

There is a relevant saying about power… he who has the money, has the power. The OP just needs a reasonable basis to dispute the bill, so they can block a mechanic’s lien being perfected.

Once the contractor loses the right to perfect a mechanic’s lien… then they have to decide whether to pay an attorney or not and attorneys are expensive. At that point the OP has a lot more power, but they really need things in writing first.
Zippy Dudar thanked bry911
HU-227031627
2 years ago
Zippy, get out your cell phone and take pictures of all the things that you believe are wrong with the job. Take a picture of each one.

Do you have a contract? If so, what does it say? Is your contractor licensed to work in your state? States vary in their licensing requirements and laws concerning home remodeling/home improvement contracts.

If you live near a law school or large city, there are often pro bono (free) legal help programs that can help you. Your state may also have one online where you can receive free legal help.

Document everything that you can, and as others have posted, use email or text as much as possible to document your concerns and the responses from your contractor. Even if you have a verbal conversation, be sure to send a follow-up email that documents what was said on the phone. For example, "Just to confirm, when we spoke (or met in person) earlier today, you said that the cracks in the wooden doors that you installed were perfectly normal and that it would cost me more to have them repaired by you..."
Jennifer Hogan
2 years ago
You have gotten great advice here and I don't know that I have much to add. I had my local lumber yard recommend a good contractor to do work in my home. They know the contractors. So do the plumbing and electrical supply companies. An attorney can provide excellent advice and insight and sometimes a simple letter from an attorney makes someone back down and realize that they are no longer able to bully.

I will say that I feel your pain. The construction field is dominated by men and sadly they often treat women like we are idiots.

My niece had to work and asked me to go with her dad to the home inspection when she bought her condo. Her dad can barely tie his shoe laces and I have done a lot of renovations, sold real estate and have a decent grasp of what is and is not important. The inspector shushed me and the female real estate agent every time we tried to point something out or ask a question and kept addressing my brother in law and showing him what was wrong.

I had a HVAC guy who pointed to my furnace and mansplained that this is the thing that makes my house warm in the winter. Really - I wouldn't have had a clue!

I had a plumber do some plumbing work and tell me that the piece of copper pipe he removed from my bathroom was a piece of pipe he brought with him. (I had before and after pictures, but let him take the 5' piece of pipe. Not worth the fight).

I had the guys who added a section of concrete to my back patio tell me that I needed to pay them the balance due when the job was done and that the clean up was not part of the job.

You are not wrong in thinking that you may be the victim of misogyny.
Zippy Dudar thanked Jennifer Hogan
Zippy Dudar
Original Author
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
To everyone who responded to my note -- thank you enormously! Cannot tell you how grateful I am to you for your time, thoughtfulness, consideration, practicality, expertise, helpfulness, kindness, resourcefulness, and more.

The day I posted this my 94-year-old Mom and I got COVID. Neither of us had had it before and it really walloped the heck out of us. We are on the mend, but please accept my apology for not responding sooner--and for not responding individually (yet).

Today the 2 of us reviewed and discussed every response and we now have a plan of action. I appreciate those who understood any frustration coming through my post was a candid expression in a contained discussion on Houzz rather than assuming I'd strut around with "balled fists" and "jutted chin" in writing or in person to the contractor.

This situation is so disappointing and flummoxing--and $22,000 of unexpected expenses isn't trivial to us--such that I can't adequately convey how dismayed and at a loss we are. Your replies materially helped us chart a course.

I'll be back in touch to address/thank you-all individually, and to provide an update.

Thank you again, so so much!

Who can we contact to help evaluate contractor work that's been done?

bry911

Comments (14)

millworkman

millworkman

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Patricia Colwell Consulting

Lorraine Leroux

la_la Girl

JAN MOYER

DeWayne

Joseph Corlett, LLC

Kendrah

bry911

HU-227031627

Jennifer Hogan

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Who can we contact to help evaluate contractor work that's been done?

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