is there any sign of crop decline that requires crop rotation;...

im wondering if you are struggling to apply million acre farm theory to raised beds...

i sont understand how you cant avoid the whole issue.. with a small application of fertilizer .. IF THE PLANTS REALLY NEED IT...

if you want help with tomatoes.. you are going to have to add some facts for us to work with... are there tomato forums....

i hope that FAQ forum isnt messing up seeing answers...

ken

Why can't you put the nightshades where the onions, beans, lettuce etc were the year before? What is the problem with heirloom tomatoes?

I have to presume your "real problem with heirloom tomatoes" is some sort of fungal infection that you'd like to escape. If you have 11 raised beds, doesn't that mean you have 10 other places to put your tomatoes? Regular fungicide application should be helpful, in any case. If the beds are adjacent, they're probably all infected.

Before doing anything drastic pull a soil sample. Micro-nutrient deficiency has fooled gardeners into thinking they have disease. Skipping heirlooms and planting resistant varieties a year or two might be enough to clear up disease problem. Any sign of disease is enough reason to put plants in garbage instead of compost or turning under after harvest.

Thanks for your coments, I plant onions and green beans and other stuff as compaion crops with my tomatoes. I don't have a bed just for onions and some of the other plants. I have a bed just for potatoes, one for just cucumbers and one for just peppers. On 5 of my beds I have tomatoes in the back of the bed and companion crops in the front. My experance with heirlooms is they suffer early and the ones that survive usually do better later in the season. In very wet spring's I have trouble with early blight. I treat it with Neem oil spray, but might have to go to copper fungicide. Is there anything I could spray or add to the beds right before I plant. I usually start end of march with cool season crops and end of April to May 15 with everthing else.

My experience with heirlooms is they suffer early and the ones that survive usually do better later in the season.

Suffer how? How warm is it when you plant them?

Note that most simple fungicides don't kill fungal infections. They just prevent those infections from starting. That's especially true with copper. So if you use it, use it regularly from the start. Don't wait until you see problems. Once the infection starts, you're done for. A chlorothalonil - containing fungicide would be more effective, most likely. Long ago, there used to be powerful soil fumigants (e.g. Vapam) that would kill EVERYTHING in the soil - fungus, other diseases, and also worms and beneficial bacteria. You apply that and start from scratch. But those aren't allowed for residential use anymore. I will echo the advice that infected plants must be disposed of entirely.

If you have 11 beds, and usually have 5 of them part filled with tomatoes every year... how much rotating are you actually doing? Stuff like blight often has a suggestion of 3-4 years of rotating out before trying to put tomatoes back in. If all you are doing is moving the planting spot a few feet over to the next bed, or putting tomatoes back in after 1-2 years.. you aren't really mitigating the issue. Just keeping it well spread around all the beds. Then even with resistant plants and good treatment you can still suffer almost as much as if you weren't doing anything.

Actually, "resistance" is a somewhat over-played term. I've grown many "resistant" varieties that succumb to things they were supposed to be resistant to. Resistance may suggest that they put up more of a fight, but doesn't mean they are immune and, once infected, your soil is going to cause trouble for a long time.

Oh, no doubt. Resistance is just that -- resistance, not immunity. But at least there's a fighting chance with disease-resistant cultivars. Resistance to the disease at hand, I should say, not the general "disease resistant" term that some places like to toss around....um...resistant to what exactly?

I had a terrible problem with powdery mildew on my butternut; switching to a PM-resistant variety completely took care of that problem. Just an example.

We have so many issues here in FL, I gave up on heirlooms years ago and instead have good success with VFFNTA hybrids instead. I always look for those that mention excellent, outstanding flavor in the catalog description. I avoid the ones with no mention of flavor, or that say only 'good'.

And FWIW, years ago, I read something from a master gardener in S FL who said indeterminates can outgrow a lot of problems, so that's what I grow.

I can't really rotate my tomatoes either. They're in the ground and take up most of my vegetable bed. I let the area lay fallow during the summer here, prep and amend the bed and plant in the fall. I mulch thickly with old hay, which seems to help keep diseases down.

We have a gentleman in our community garden who has been growing nothing but tomatoes in his 15x15’ plot for over 30 years. Every year he brings in a large amount of compost, and every year he has absolutely gorgeous tomatoes, the biggest and healthiest in the garden.

I too used to grow tomatoes regularly in a fixed plot for many years. The fungal infections got worse and worse. That's why it is strongly advised to rotate beds when growing tomatoes. Yes, I've heard of people who manage to pull it off, but they're lucky, especially if they import compost from sources that aren't fungally sterile.

I've known of gardeners that grow well without rotating. And ones that do well with rotating. Different gardens, tended different. I tend to rotate, tomatoes will be in the same spot for a few years and then I switch over to a different garden for a few years. Depends on how the tomatoes do in their bed. And also what my processing needs are that year. I've pushed past when I probably should have rotated out for the sake of a processing, and I've rotated out early if I've wanted to use that spot for something else. This year is likely a no tomatoes in the yard gardens year- my larder is good. So a large container grow of an eater or two in the kitchen garden this year. Next year will see tomatoes in a yard bed that hasn't had them in several years- that bed is mostly peppers for processing this year.

Since it sounds like the OP is partially filling almost half their beds every year, they may not really be rotating, just keeping the issue spread around. It may be of better benefit to them if they can maybe change that to completely filling three beds. And using that trio of beds for two years before rotating to the next trio. It will take a couple years for the rotating year gap to take, but there will eventually be a four year gap between bed use.

How far away does the new row or bed have to be?

Avoiding fungal infection of garden plots is pretty much just a matter of luck. Some have luck not rotating, and some don't. There will always be stories about each. You can roll the dice and not rotate. All extension services recommend rotation for tomatoes. BTW, pathogens that are dispersed by wind-blown spores or insects that over-winter on weeds are largely unaffected by rotation, so beds that are close together may not benefit much from rotation. Also, some care should be taken to rotate among families with different disease sensitivities. As in, replace host crops with non-host crops. Blight, for example, can attack hundreds of different plant families. So protecting tomatoes isn't just about switching out tomatoes to anything else. As it turns out, however, at least fusarium is pretty much restricted to tomatoes.

It can depend on what kind of ick one has how to rotate. Some stuff sticks around more in the soil, and it can be more of a matter of many feet/yards. Some stuff is air borne, and then a lot more distance or windbreaking would be needed to help mitigage the spread. Some if it can depend on cleanup, if icky plant matter is left in the beds, or ends up in the compost pile. Insects can be a transfer and also weaken plants, so sometimes having insect issues with your tomatoes can be furthering the ick issues. Rotating can benefit some gardeners, but it isn't a cure all or complete preventative. Often, gardeners just don't have the conditions that can really be benefited by rotating.

A lot of gardeners also use other practices. Good plant grooming, consistent growing conditions like feeding and watering, chemical treatments of synthetic and organic varieties. Growing varieties that are more resistant to the kinds of ick in their beds. Bringing in fresh matter for the plants to grow in.

All true. The point is you don't know what you're fighting. But rotating at a distance is almost always beneficial, which is why extensions all recommend it. No question that for home gardeners, sometimes that rotation is just impractical. That's my problem. The other practices, like plant grooming, consistent caretaking, and even chemical treatments are more chancy with regard to disease mitigation. As noted, disease resistance helps, but is hardly foolproof. Not clear that fresh growing medium is going to help much at all, except to the extent that the entire bed is replaced.