" He said metal is a high quality material, and although the upfront costs may be higher "

What kind of metal, there are many types?

" My second question has to do with those darn CC&R's. Should I interpret it as meaning we have to use the same siding and roofing materials for both the house and shop? "

Aren't these CC&R in writing somewhere? You should be given a copy when looking at purchasing the land or at the very least when looking to build.

What are CC&R's?

Covenants, conditions, and restrictions .

Interview a few local architects in that mix. They may be more educated and experienced in the issues you have.

Both architects and builders should be familiar with the CC&Rs for the subdivision. And yes, they should be in writing. When we built our vacation home our area had some CC&Rs that we knew on the go-in (natural cedar siding and roofing) which made the build more expensive.

But no one on this forum is qualified to tell you what you can and can't do--you need to talk to the builder, architect, and possibly an attorney to interpret those areas that you are uncertain of.

I'm going on 7 years for the metal siding on my house: 26 ga. corrugated. It looks like the day I put it up. I don't plan to ever do anything to it.

I used a 26 ga. snap together standing seam metal roof: Fabral Horizon. It's worth the upgrade.

I am not in agrrement with HOAs or I guess in this case but if you plan to build there you need to follow the rules . I would never live where I am told what my home can be or not be. As for metal siding too many different types to advise and again you will need to fly it by yhe poers that be. I would however spenfd the extra for a metal roof for sure .

" There are some CC&R's but no HOA, "

Where do the CC&R's come from? Are they lawful or rumors?

Metal siding is not viewed as "similar high-quality siding." , In addition, the barndominium approach usually costs more than a standard stick framed house. This is sounding like you may not have the budget needed to build to the standards that the neighborhood requires.

Your realtor will NOT provide good info here - he wants to sell and will tell you that anything is possible. It won't be his problem.

Metal can be a high quality material - but the metal that would be appropriate for a house and the metal for a pole barn will be 2 different things and varying quality.

Are there neighbors who have successfully executed this house / shop combo? I would look to those for guidance and expectations.

Don't be the person who ends up with a shop building that looks larger than the house (based on your proposed square footages) and is obviously lower cost / quality.

There's nothing wrong with a pole barn / normal Morton type construction - but it sounds like that's exactly what the restrictions in this neighborhood are trying to avoid. I would consider a different location without restrictions based on your questions.

My 2 cents...

If you are going to build something that some people might find objectionable, then you better follow CC&R's to the letter. So, if I was building a 2,200 sq.ft. house with an outbuilding that was 2,000 sq.ft. in a neighborhood where that was not typical, I would only consider materials that were specifically named in the CC&R's or used extensively throughout the neighborhood. If that outbuilding is visible from the street, there is a very solid chance that someone is going to find it objectionable and take action against it if possible.

Ask the builder if they are willing to pay for the costs to prove it is a high quality material, because it really doesn't matter. What matters is whether or not your neighbors will find it objectionable enough to take action against it. You can still spend a fortune in court proving that you did nothing wrong. So don't be penny wise and pound foolish.

I just went through a discussion on metal siding vs. Hardipanel for a modern house we're building in central Washington. Our builder had recently completed a home covered in Corten siding and I talked to the siding/roofing supplier yesterday.

The roofing supplier described metal siding as a potential nightmare unless you have a very competent installer who does metal siding all the time. The sub for the Corten siding wasn't that familiar with it, so it sounded like cost overruns galore.

Our builder also said metal siding would be substantially more expensive than Hardipanel (on an all-in cost basis). He might have been channeling that prior project, but that was good enough for me.

This language says to me that you need the same materials on the house and the shop. The shop should look like a mini version of your house, but in this case, your shop may be the same size. I would strongly encourage you make them match for the neighborhood aesthetics as well as the personal risk that someone could sue. I have seen some neighborhoods with similar covenants, and I have seen people build small storage sheds, even 10x10, with a matching pitched roof, siding, and all copies colors and materials matching the house.

Thanks for all the comments! The CC&R's are very basic and I quoted them in my original post as to how the shop is to match the dwelling. That's all it says. The CC&R's are lawful and not rumors.

Again, this is a very small neighborhood of only 10 lots, and I just heard 1 person purchased 3 lots. Only 2 homes are built so far. And there are still a couple of lots for sale. There is NO review team; only the neighbors can "enforce" the CC&R's and that would be via litigation.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to "cheap out" on our project. The issue is the interpretation of these vague CC&R's.

Thanks for the info about metal siding; based on the opinions here and what little I've researched, we will avoid it.

Usually the CC&R includes an architectural committee that must review and approve the plans. If that is the case, get a preliminary opinion on your proposed plan so you don’t waste money on architecture fees. Also, if the property is subject to city zoning, accessory buildings like shops might be limited in side.

If the rules are vague with little oversight, you might be the one having to sue the neighbors for what they try to sneak past. Couldn’t one person with three lots really establish the design standard of the neighborhood? Vagueness can work in your favor, but, more likely, against you.

The problem with CC&R’s is that anyone can enforce them at any time. Your neighbor with the three lots can sell one of the lots in ten years and suddenly you get sued for your outbuilding.

The quoted CC&R’s are fairly standard. Ours say the exact same thing. They are vague for a reason, but that can be problematic for you. People have gotten sued because the brick on their home doesn’t match the brick on their outbuilding that was constructed ten years later.

Your best bet is to have an architect design the home and outbuilding. They should be able to deliver a complementary outbuilding.

This sounds ”fraught with fraughtness” as a college professor friend liked to say.

Lots of things can go wrong here. Don’t go in leading with your chin just daring someone to poke you on it. That’s no way to live your golden years.

I believe there is case law out there stating that vague laws can not be enforced.

I like bry911's advice of hiring a local architect to design the house and any other building in concordance with the CC&Rs. Hopefully the fact that they are educated, experienced, and licensed to address such issues will carry some weight. Although the complainant my have issues in their mind, it my be be fine in your mind based upon professional opinion.

It is impossible to actually advise the OP, we are miles away from enough information. I can tell you this. My neighborhood has nearly the same wording as the OP in our deed restrictions and the building that @dan1888 posted above wouldn't even come close to flying. What part of "The house siding has to be built with fiber cement board, wood, batten board, stucco, masonry or "similar high-quality siding." No vinyl, T-111, or plywood." and " Shops have to be on a permanent foundation and are allowed provided "architectural details match the primary residence and said shop buildings compliment the residence'" leads one to believe that a metal shouse would come close to being acceptable. You might as well set $212K on fire.

We have equestrian lots and there are pretty strict requirements for barns and outbuildings on our lots. I have great neighbors who are very reasonable as many of us are breaking some of the deed restrictions. However, they also wouldn't bat an eye to spend $200,000 to stop you from building an eyesore. Half of them are attorneys and the other half are just too bored for their own good.

No one would want a 2,000 sq.ft. house and a 2,000 sq.ft. shop on one lot in my neighborhood. Doing that would be dangerously close to picking a fight anyway and so I wouldn't risk doing anything even close to questionable and I would get an architect involved so someone with a professional duty had some skin in the game. Your neighborhood may be completely different and this is fine... which is largely why we really are not close to being able to advise what is OK and what is not.

By the way... the deed restriction I am breaking is in a section called Non-Equestrian Animals "No more than two dogs and two cats may be kept on any lot except when dogs or cats in excess of such numbers are less than three months of age." I question the enforceability of that restriction and currently have three dogs.

Our head of architecture appeared before a planning board in a town that was notorious for arbitrary decisions regarding building appearance. He told them the building would be built with scored CMU. They apparently didn't know what that was and were too embarrassed to ask. So the building was built with painted concrete block, which caused quite a stir.

That is pretty funny Seabornman

"Half of them are attorneys and the other half are just too bored for their own good."

I think I designed a house in that neighborhood.

Having a 'shop' included in square footage calculations is optimistic.

@dan1888 "And I say it easily flies. Especially if you create a more imposing structure by combining the shop and residence square footage."

That flight would most likely end just like the Hindenburg. It is easy for you to say anything you want on the internet because it isn't your money.

I am confident that the "imposing structure" you posted above would lower my property value if it were next to my home. Because I feel that way I can tell you exactly how it would fly if you were my neighbor trying that. I would seek an injunction to stop you from continuing construction until the matter was settled, which I would absolutely get. I would then file a lis pedens on your property to prevent you from getting a loan or refinancing any construction loan you have. I would file the complaint wait for the response and then just wait. We would likely get a court date twelve to eighteen months after the response and all that time your fancy metal building is just going to be setting on your lot untouched. I will be $20,000 into the case when we get to trial and you will likely be $60,000 - $80,000 as your attorney actually has to prepare a defense and all I have to do is show up with a couple of precedents.

If there is any chance of you actually defending the case I will investigate selling my home before we even get to court. Or seeing if my other neighbors want to join to share the cost.

Most legal battles are battles of attrition.

Since I'm an attorney in my jurisdiction, I'd be happy to oppose your TRO.

Since I'm an attorney in my jurisdiction, I'd be happy to oppose your TRO.

Then you would go against the attorney I use for all land use issues and you would likely lose. I really don’t care if you are happy about it or not.

Putting that next to my house would likely result in a six figure loss of value to my house. I have too much skin in the game to just duck my head and let you carry on. I strongly suspect my neighbors feel the same way as they are involved in a land use suit now over a lot less than that thing.

It is irresponsible to advise someone to do something so confrontational on their lot and pretend everything will be fine. You haven't asked a thing about any other CC&R which likely exist, so how can you actually form an opinion that the OP will be fine?

"It is irresponsible to advise someone to . . . "

I thought that what Houzz was for, irresponsible advice?

I fear my message has gotten lost in this back and forth. So I am going to reiterate it, even though that may be unnecessary.

Rather than looking for the material options and shop design that you can get away with, I recommend thinking of a design and materials that fit well in your neighborhood and will complement your home and the homes of your neighbors. Having a bad relationship with your neighbors is exhausting and if there is a financially viable way to minimize the risk of a bad relationship with neighbors, then it is probably a good idea.

I really don't know if your neighbors would have a problem with metal siding or not. I am very confident that mine would. I don't know how your neighbors would feel about a detached shop that was the same size as your home, I strongly suspect my neighbors would not be enthusiastic about it. However, I do think there is a way to design a shop and home that complement each other nicely. That is not a skill I could manage and would seek a design professional.

However, your new neighbors might be completely different than mine. I would consider my neighborhood to be one of the most upscale in our area and yours may not be anything like that. This is why I am telling you to consider the neighborhood and giving examples of considering mine rather than telling you that it will work or not.

Error on the side of safety and pretend you neighbors are just like bry911's neighbors. Follow the CC&R's to the letter, and live happily ever after.

Wow, sure glad that I live where I do and can build our house like I want to. Instead of having to worry about busy body neighbors. And yes it will be a nice looking home. And we will have plenty of room for a big garden and some chickens n meat rabbits.

"Wow, sure glad that I live where I do and can build our house like I want to."

Any spats I have with my neighbors aren't based on what siding they put on their garage.

OTOH, I've noticed that people with more money than I have sure do like to sue each other. I think it's a way to show dominance, given they can all buy expensive houses, cars and the like.

Just to be clear, my neighbors are all pretty cool. We get together a few times each year as neighborhood for cookouts and have several neighbors who we visit or invite for dinner several times each year. No one cares about sheds that don’t meet deed restrictions and not one neighbor has ever sued another.

However, we are also respectful of each other. Building a metal barndominium/shouse in the middle of a bunch of 4,000+ sq.ft. brick homes isn’t showing a lot of respect. They are going to treat you the same way.

Conservatively, that would destroy millions of dollars in equity in my neighborhood and I don’t know anyone who wouldn’t act to protect that. My house would likely lose $200k in value with that thing pictured above next to it. Which is fine if the deed restrictions allow it, but fortunately our deed restrictions prevent it.

No HOA means no design review committee.

CCRs used multiple material examples but only excluded a few specifics. T111 is low end and needs lots of maintenance and often replacement due to rot.

what is "High quality" siding metal? - we've used Corten steel in high end communities. Most standing seam metal is high quality and is reflected in the costs.

But I wouldn't consider metal siding that resembles wood as "high quality"

The buildings need to be similar. 2 acre homesites and they want custom, not shacks.

Otherwise purchase where there aren't CCRs.

Seabornman, you are wrong. People that spend a lot of money on a house want to protect that investment and keep it looking nice. It isn't because they are trying to show dominance. And you would do the same.