Look at Desiree Parmentier

Thanks @mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)! The color is quite a bit darker than what DP appears to be, and the canes are are already close to 10' so like everything else - sort of fits, sort of doesn't?

That Pompon with proliferation does look a lot like DP. Hmmm. Something Hybrid China (Gallica)? On the order of Frederic II de Prusse? Yours looks a bit more ”pompon” than Fred. But something like his type? Or like DP with a bit of Centifolia? Anyway, I think it’s some kind of old Hybrid China. I don’t think it’s The Burgundian Rose (of which I hear there is a taller version)…..

@portlandmysteryrose thank you! I can see the China in this plant - the look of the canes, the bloom time (just slightly behind my other Chinas). Even the way it wants to scramble up the fence is a lot like my only climbing China, Cl. Pompon de Paris. Frederic II de Prusse seems to fit really well, although RVR doesn't offer it. The Burgundian Rose looks so close as well, maybe there is a climbing sport?

The Burgundian Rose has flowers that are about half that size. It is entirely cute.

Possibly "Red Runaround".

@Sandy this seems like another strong possibility, thank you! Both the FdP and the Red Runaround HMF comments refer to the long, thin canes. When I planted this rose as a tiny band (thinking it was a Bourbon shrub) it immediately threw up a ton of these tiny canes in the first month. I threw a tomato cage over it to support the canes and within a couple of months they had waterfalled over the side and the tips had reached the ground. It seemed really unusual and distinctive, at least in my experience.

I'll change the title of my post to better reflect the direction this conversation is heading. I very much appreciate all of your input and expertise!

I think I'll also take apart a flower for a petal count - what initially appears to be many tiny petals might actually be ruffled petals.

ElfRosa, here’s a Heritage Roses Group article link to a PDF about some PNW cemetery roses including the ”Red Runaround” type(s). I live in PDX and don’t see it around here, but as it is the OR Trail’s End, OR City has planted what must be RR in spots around its dowtown revitalization areas.—Carol

https://www.theheritagerosesgroup.org/public-newsletters/2022-august-hrg-rose-letter.pdf

HMF says RR is ”armed with prickles.”

”Red Runaround” HMF: https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.3864.1&tab=1

@portlandmysteryrose thank you for this article - I remember reading this last year and promising to explore some of these places, now I have another reason to do so!

I took a flower apart which was definitely worth doing, but quite a project - I counted 150+ petals(!) and the best part is that they are the most beautiful heart shape, so cute! They do have the white at the base as is listed in the references for FdP. I checked the plant again looking for any sign of big thorns like the rest of my chinas have, and there is not a single one. Just the tiny little raspberry-like prickles.

Wow! That is so beautiful!! I love all the little hearts—150 of them. Do you live within driving distance of the RR cemetery roses or Oregon City? Someday I plan to collect or purchase a RR just to see what I get. Please let us know how things progress with your mystery rose! It’s lovely!

@portlandmysteryrose I'm glad you think so too! I was stunned as the petals started falling, so many and so cute, hard to believe all that could come off a single 2.5" flower! I am outside Portland as well, but on the west side, so it's about an hour to Oregon City, and two hours to Eugene - totally doable!

I will definitely be propagating this plant and hopefully can share - it already seemed quite special, and the more I learn about it, the more I love it. It seems pretty vigorous but I've never propagated Chinas before, so wish me luck!

Absolutely! Oodles of luck!

@Meg-zone8aOR it most certainly could! "The Shell Rose" Bourbon (the Reine Victoria I initially ordered) and "The Shell Rose" Hybrid China also explains the mixup. This is highly probable, thank you so much!

Wow! There’s another great candidate, Meg!

ElfRosa, are the canes of your rose smooth? I think The Shell Rose is thorny. I’m going to try to find an article by Paul Zimmerman if I can.

My understanding is that ML Shell Rose has been distinguished from Red Runaround, but ML Shell Rose might be this? Here’s another link to a similar one—Petite Renoncule…but I don’t think RVR stocks this one? I think it has bristles on its canes.

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.58338.2

ML Shell Rose info from the Vintage Garden’s Book of Roses:

@portlandmysteryrose the canes are quite smooth, but have the little raspberry-like prickles, especially as the canes thin near the flowers - here is another cane photo. The cane in shadow on the right actually shows these the best, you can see the outline of the little prickles against the sky. These descriptions are just right - everything matches here, from the plant description to the habit!

That’s great! You and Meg likely solved the mystery. 🙌

@portlandmysteryrose I think maybe so! With a huge, huge assist from you and also Sandy and mad_Gallica! Thank you all for sharing your amazing brain power and knowledge with me.

I edited the title to reflect the probable ID.