Kitty, Miyabi Brown and Miyabi Cha is the same rose. :)

@elenazone6

Thanks.

@knightsgambit

If the GRF Princess Line & Wabara are sold only this spring 2026 they are, still only available to members.

I love some Princess Line & Wabara, but will seek another vendor for a couple picks.

I only am focusing on A&A potted roses Feb 15 & a couple vendors of a few extras.

@Kittysrosegarden I think it’s going to take some time but I think in 2-3 years time, GRF will have enough stock to sell them without memberships. It makes little sense to only sell to a couple hundred members and as a consumer, I don’t want to buy it on Etsy not knowing where the rose originated, if it’s passed phytosanitary standards etc.

I think they have a good sense of what their customers want but they boxed themselves into the memberships and now have to wait a year to end it.

@knightsgambit

The GRF Secret Garden & Gracie’s Coveted roses are grown on what farms and wondering how they grew them quick enough to sell in bare roots or gallon containers? Since they didnt sell all memmberships left, but they sold out on pretty much all unique varieties that I know of, that I saw in the Secret Garden & Gracie’s Coveted , I guess they didnt have too many of these varieties. Will they have more of each variety in the future? Depends if they have patent permission & are growing them on ”a farm they own somewhere?”

GRF obtains many roses wholesale already grown from possibly O&S, Star Rises, Alexandra Farms and the unique Japanese roses in the Secret Garden & Gracies Coveted from many vendors I heard her say in a LIVE.

If GRF obtains all roses wholesale, not growing their own on her own farms, her numbers may not ever increase necessarily in varieties. I beleive GRF would tell the public and show videos of ”any farms if she owned them?

Below is a video of Gracie walking a farm field in ”Central CA desert,” which she says she ”ordered ”lots… thousands” of the Martha Stewart,” for customers. She is buying wholesale to sell retail Martha S. from possibly O&S or Star Roses farms. Not from her own farms.

In CA, at Gracie’s growers bare root farm. Again, it’s not ”a GRF farm, she shows Classic Woman,” she ordered to sell retail,.

Why doesn’t she mention her grower’s farm name? Transparency would be appreciated.

I am not sure that Otto & Sons sells any bare roots. I only read that they sell their roses in 5 gallon-15 gallon containers. They sold Martha S. in 2025.

Star Roses, has rose test fields in Wasco & Arroyo Grande , CA and they sell bare root roses to whole sellers. Star Rosrs sold Martha Stewart 2025, too. GRF may be getting ” many of her bareroots from this rose growers farms?”

I requested to tell us what rose farms GRF fields are in.

I don’t think they have ”their own fields” or specific grower, it is likely the grower for Star Roses who then sells the roses to nurseries/retailers like GRF.

The Japanese roses and Estate roses are from Otto & Sons. They are bare roots that presumably are potted and matured till they reach a certain size and then sold on. My guess is Otto had a lot of inventory and GRF saw an opportunity to sell larger, mature roses bushes because that’s what the consumer base wants. People are buying them and happy with the product. The rose bushes look great but they’re too pricey for me. The markup is 2x what a customer in California who could go to the nursery would pay.

Central California is not a desert. The San Joaquin Valley, where Wasco is, stretches from Bakersfield in the south to Chico in the north, and is one of the top-producing agricultural areas in the US, if not the world. They get much more rainfall than we do in LA County, and are also subject to dense fogs bearing a great deal of moisture. I wouldn’t put any faith in someone who can’t take the time to learn basic geography. But then — I’m not into florist roses and the giddy self-promoting hype that seems to surround them.
To each his own, but please, “Gracie,” don’t insult the intelligence of your customer base. Rant concluded.

California is the #1 agricultural state in the US, and the world's fourth largest economy. Cal even booted Idaho down a notch in its dairy ranking in the US. Sylvia, you really nailed it about the giddy, self promoting hype surrounding so called florist roses. Diane

I think most of us, myself included just want to grow beautiful plants and maybe cut a few and put them in a vase. Diane and Sylvia, I see your perspectives. We tend to get caught up in the hysteria of collecting ”coveted”, ”rare”, and ”exclusive”…Putting the word ”florist” in the product description is a great way to get an extra $15 from us….a lot of times more.

Otto & Sons is a very large middle man nursery in Fillmore, CA that pots bare root roses they obtain from the source (Weeks, Star, etc.). I've heard that they are growing some rare own roots lately. They definitely don't have any rose production fields. Surely, Grace is standing in a rose field in Wasco, CA, which is near Bakersfield, CA. It's hot, but not the desert in any way. Grace most assuredly does not own any rose growing fields, lol. The level of hype, self-promotion, and attempt at legend-making by Grace just blows me away, particularly considering her dismal record of actually providing good service to her customers. But she has tons of cult members, which I guess is why her company got bought :-D

@sylviaww 10a, hot dry inland Socal

Yes, I gathered that Gracie was probably ”not in Central CA, a dessert. Not in ””Central CA at all,” Star Roses farm & Otto‘s farm are Southern, CA. Many CA in Los Angelos that I used lived around used to say ”the whole area was really a dessert before irrigation & swim pools were added” . … guess she gets the dessert idea from that.

@knightsgambit

I have heard some surmise that Otto is growing the Japanese roses for Gracie, but I have not seen or heard anyone have ”statistics-more info, to confirm it?

I know she sourced through Heidi unique and different roses from many obscure sources , she said on a LIVE, but are these unique roses are coming to GRF in 1 gallon pots from all these different sources.

OTTO & SONS

Otto & Sons advertises they have 5-15 gallon potted roses, so Gracie would probably be sourcing her 5 gallon potted Estate roses from Otto.

Gracie does state that ”Star Roses, Weeks & DA,” are some of her breeders on her website. It may follow she receives bare roots from Star Roses,

.

Susan,

So Otto & Sons has no rose fields? Ok. I looked into it. Soooo then Star Roses may be “some of the origin farm-rose fields- of GRF bare roots & original potted sent to Otto.”

So maybe Star Roses is the source of some of Gracie’s ”Better Bare Roots from rose fields in CA,” she advertises.

OR maybe Certified Roses sends Gracie bare roots? . Some of Certified Roses come from ”Francis Farm & some come from Certified Roses’ CA rose fields.” Tyler Francis said 50 percent of roses sold from nurseries across the US come from Francis Farm.

Certified Roses may send “bare roots to GRF to sell.” Certified roses are grown from AZ ( Francis Farm) and a CA Certified Rose farm, then sent as bare roots to Texas to process & give to nurseries wholesale.

SO….. where does Gracie obtain her grown roses from & how many states do the bare roots travel through before reaching customers. Without GRF telling her customers her “rose grower sources,” we can only surmise.

So do Gracie’s ”Better Bare Roots”, that she advertises, grow in Star Roses CA & PA fields then shipped to ” GRF process unknown center” to customers?

OR Do they come from Francis AZ fields to Certified Roses as bare roots then to Certified Roses in Texas to process then to CA-GRF then to customers?

OR

The bare roots could come from CA Certified Roses’ fields to Texas to process then sent to GRF processing in CA to customers.

SO Gracie claims her growers rose fieilds….. in CA, but who knows where all her rosrs come from and with bare roots, how many states did they travel in cold storage before reaching customers? Are these ”Better Bare Roots?”

OTTO & SONS below excerpts from their website…

Otto explains they buy ”bareroots from Weeks, Star Roses, Certified Roses, & David Austin.” They also propagate a few “off-patent” inhouse roses. Then all bare roots are grown in 5-15 gallon containers for customers to buy later. From this article it sounds like Otto’s rose fields are composed of ”potted roses, not farming inground roses.”

However, I think GRF now obtains her roses from all over various US & Canada sources, grown in different ways-varying qualities standards. No uniform quality roses sold by Grace it may appears since GRF roses come from many sources this season 2026.. Heidi said in a LIVE she obtained a unique rose for customers from Canada .

Gracie stating her fields are Solarized & they are better bare roots? Are they really? Are they really all from one rose fields and uniform cared for so she can gurantee solarized ir any one type of special care? NO. Gracie admitted they source unique varieties from many unique souces which means they are are ”a plethora of different ways the GRF rosrs are grown.”

Otto & Sons I think have shown pictures in the past of fields with pots of roses growing. They aren't growing anything in the ground. 5 gallon DAs on Otto & Sons website for curbside pickup are $73 but those same roses are sold for $159. That's an over 200% markup as a middleman. My guess is Better Bare Roots is like the Estate Roses, it's just marketing. A 5 gallon rose is a 5 gallon rose, call it whatever you want. If you buy a Martha Stewart rose from Edmunds, it likely was grown in the same field as the ones from GRF and likely received the same start of the art growing practices.

My advice to anyone reading this is if you're in California, just go to Otto & Sons or one of a number of nurseries and get the same product at a non-inflated price. If you live out of state, you can either save some coin and buy bare roots or buy a 3 gallon rose at half the cost from other vendors but the best option is to always shop local.

@Kittysrosegarden it seems like some of these exclusive roses are allowed to be grown because the original breeder may not established their rights here? I'm not too familiar with the plant breeders rights but the whole situation with Thierry Marx and Juliet being in the lookbook has me uneasy. The lookbook is basically a catalog of what you intend to sell but if you're chopping and changing it and people are buying memberships based on the promise of buying roses that won't be available, that doesn't sit right with me. I also saw a bunch of Chinese roses on the lookbook, my skepticism is just going through the roof....I think we're better off sticking with A&A.

Diane, you and I tend to be on the same page about a lot of things. Thanks for your kind words.

Susan, I dunno about the pots. Otto’s has rose fields for miles…all in pots? I wonder. I wish they’d let customers wander at will through their fields—maybe they could do golf cart tours, I’d pay for that!😁

Kitty, I wish I had your space and your resources. Maybe it’s just sour grapes on my part.

Nonetheless, I have to question GRF’s business practices. In his hilarious novel Mason & Dixon, Thomas Pynchon has Ben Franklin saying, “Strangers, heed this wise advice/Never pay the retail price.” Words to live by, IMHO.

Thanks, Sylvia. I hate to mention this again, but 2025 roses were about $50 for five gallon plants, and they are wonderful. Boy, the mark up varies. In 2024, I paid less than $45 for my five gallon Angel Face. Diane

Angel Face in her nursery pot in August 2024 waiting to be planted. She started blooming in May, but I was lazy, and didn't plant her until early September.

I just checked at Otto & Sons, and every rose I entered to check the price of was currently $45 for a 5 gallon potted rose to purchase there. So I'm not sure where the $73 came from.

Sylvia, Otto is open to the public from 8-4 Weds-Sat. Last time I was there, I was free to wander the huge fields of pots, but it was >10 years ago and it wasn't "miles" of property.

Kitty, major LOL on Grace claiming that "her" rose fields are solarized. I mean, seriously...

@sylviaww 10a, hot dry inland Socal

It’s expensive to live in CA and what a joy for you to have a CA rose garden. It is a trade off to live other places, maybe colder but more land. I am actually looking to buy PNW land and design my rose garden even before much thought about my house building. Choosing the house was easier. LOL! I am spending many hours choosing roses designing raised rose beds for my new property near Seattle. .

I guess, we each have our blessings & challenges. But I love the CA sun!

Diane,

Now in Idaho you can obtain a local 5 gallon rose for $50 which is marvelous! Beautiful Angelface!

@susan9santabarbara

Gracie claims these possible ”Star Roses fields” are from her grower’s” but refuses to mention the growers name. Then she says they are” better bare roots ” that grow in these solarized feilds because…”

Gracie says here the solarization almost guarantees 100% virus/gall.. free roses.

If you watch GRF video above, Gracie says her new grower has this plastic on fields to solarize, “guaranteeing almost 100% virus/gall free……”

Above GRF claims ”all GRF bare roots are having solarization.“ However, , I wonder if ”this new grower is her only bare root source, & if they solarized completley their bare root’s life time? Do all her roses even receive 100 percent solarization?

A customer can’t verify because GRF will not tell where or who she gets roses grown from.

In addition, Francis Roses’ horticulture exoert explained in a LIVE 2025, recently, ”how solarizarion only kills some pathogens about 1 foot down in soil which oathogens go further dien to 3-5 feet with rose roots, so solarizing effectiveness is limited to only the depth if a foot. It basically only kills some pathogens.

Therefore, Gracie claiming that her growers solarization is ”almost 100% kills virus/gall,”…. is that a true statement? . Her advertizment that “ her grower “maintains virus free stock…” is that 100% true, either? Are her Bare roots better? Better bare roots than what?

GENERAL NOTE

Growers generally strive to maintain virus free stock, but cannot guarantee 100%. They can refund/ reolace if disease/viruses occur.

SOIL SOLARIZATION

Soil Solarization:

5 gallon Angel Face for $129…

https://www.gracerosefarm.com/products/angel-face-potted-rose-bush?srsltid=AfmBOoqE173YntT97h67trxUIdz_11VtvHcTsq0S7DNkF_edzHrKZwmw

@ knightsgambit

Ottos & Sons price is $45 for same 5 gallon potted Angel Face rose. GRF $129-same potted rose.

GRF SALE on bare roots NOWbareroot bushes/climbers $47-$55

bareroot trees up to $119ish

.

J&P bare roots left:$39-$59.

A&A $35-$55 bare roots just started Nov 1st sale.

Edmunds $35.95-44.95 bare roots

David Austin $40 bare roots

A shop named Ma Cherie has some unique beautiful roses. You can order from Amazon-free shipping. Roses such as ”Ash Wednesday” is $25 for a 2 quart!

Falstaff is $39 -2 quart.

Cafe Ole $25

Kitty, I love the PNW. Best of luck finding a place there!
$129 for a $45 rose…We’re living in bizarro world.

Unless you grow roses in a fully contained environment like a greenhouse which no bare root grower is going to do because it's exorbitantly expense, diseases like Mosaic or Crown Gall are going to exist and some percentage of the crop will get hit with these diseases. I think this is what happened with Soeur Emmanuelle and Jubilee Celebration a few years ago. Solarization will help minimize the impact which is what every grower is trying to do but you can't completely eliminate the bacteria in the soil and by solarizing the soil you also kill good bacteria and micro-organisms...

There were a lot of questions around crown gall in the GRF forum and associated with GRF's batch of bare roots this year. In fairness to GRF, they didn't grow the roses, so they had little to no control over the gall. Once they're in the coolers, the disease can proliferate in a damp and humid environment. This is the truth as I know it or at least an objective description....

I have a feeling GRF will dig itself into a hole with the Better Bare Root trademark. A bare root is bound to get gall and people will go wild with it. When you push so much marketing, you put yourself in a corner.

NEW NEWS!!!

1. GRF SAYS Gracie is still in CA, has not sold her mansion.

2. it has been a possibility that GRF obtains her bare root roses from Star Roses or Certified Roses’ fields in CA frim my research above posts. Gracie mentions in videos in above posts being in her grower’s CA fields.

Turns out ”NEUHOUSE FARMS,” grows Star Roses & Certified Roses in CA. So their is one large farm in CA that maybe GRF gets roses from called ”NeuHouse Farms.”

So NeuHouse Farms also supplies same bare roots to the Big Box stores such as Home Depot, Lowes, Walmart and more stores.

Are GRF bare roots any better than Home Depot when they may come from same field?

I asked Star Roses…..

NeuHouse Farms & Otto & Sons are biggest wholesale suppliers of roses in CA.

NEUHOUSE FARMS IS IN ”Central CA, Wasco, WA, San Joaquin Valley.” Gracie said in videos I posted above……. her new bare root grower this season 2026 is in ”Central CA.”

It must be Star Roses & couod be Certified Roses, too, from NeuHouse farm fields.

It makes sense that ”GRF Big Box Store,” would obtain her basic Drift roses from Star Roses, same as Amazon & Home Depot get them from.

GRF ROSE GROWERS FIELD INFO. UPDATE ABOVE….

TLDR: All bare roots are grown the same way, in the same fields. If you buy them from GRF, you will be paying inflated prices for nothing but marketing. That is the unfortunate truth of it all. The memberships and spurious trademarks are a smoke and mirror show to get you to pay top dollar for the exact same product. I have a grower literally selling me a bare root grade 1 rose for $30 (and she sells top quality plants), that same rose is on GRF's site for $47.50. Even if you bought a membership, you'd still pay $42, that's to say nothing of the high shipping cost of $26 for one bare root rose.

Thank you @Kittysrosegarden for figuring out whose growing the roses.

Kitty , I appreciate you getting to the bottom of this!

You’re welcome.

I like knowing where/who grows my roses to assure quality. I prefer buying roses fresh from the actual grower such as A&A, farm fresh-I know how they grow them which assures me fresh high quality!

Kitty, good job on emailing Star Roses and finding out that their CA grower is NeuHouse Farms in Wasco. I do want to clarify your statement that "NeuHouse Farms and Otto & Sons are biggest wholesale suppliers of roses in CA", in that NeuHouse Farms is an actual field grower of wholesale roses, and Otto is a large middleman re-seller of roses that they often provide to local nurseries, with their own nursery open to the public. They do not have any rose fields.

As for the quality of GRF's roses vs. the Big Box Store's roses, generally, the BBS bare root roses (whether in body bags or the coffin pots) are less than #1 grade and have their roots severely chopped off. I have no idea which of these roses GRF chooses to sell.

Knightsgambit is completely correct that all bare root roses are grown in the same (various locations) fields. Where they end up and how they are sold mostly depends on their grade, and what the retailer asks for.

Grace is still in CA because her mansion, which was intitially listed for 6.5 million on Sept. 22 had its price reduced to 6 million on Nov. 3. I saw it in the newspaper local real estate listings for about four weeks, then it disappeared. She's about an hour south of me, and her realtor is here in my town.

@susan9santabarbara

Thank you! Lovely clarification. Amazing you live close to GRF, home anyway, since Grace Rose Farm is ”not really a farm,” just a Big Box retail online type of seller.

Oh, I meant” Otto & Sons” only grows potted roses, from bare roots obtained from other grower fields, Otto puts the bare roots in pots and grows them in pots only on their CA Fillmore 38 acre property, not in ground in fields. Ottos sells their potted retail & wholesale. Otto states on their website that they buy their bare roots wholesale from specific growers-transparent.

I also can say that Francis Farms is the biggest wholesaler of roses in US/ Canada, located in AZ, but supplies CA, too. Francis Farms has 2,000 acres rose fields, Tyler Francis said this year.

Francis Farms & NewHouse Farms mass produce roses for US wholesale market. Francis allso sells retail his special roses fresh from his farm to his online store A&A, fresh to customers. .

GRF is only an online store (not a farm or grower) selling roses she obtains from many other wholesalers, after they spend much time possibly in different freezers and transported how many times (?) to how many process plants/states, quality must greatly vary before it reaches customers. I wonder how many months before bare roots spend in more than one freezer before reaching customers? .

GRF SHIPPING BARE ROOTS PROCESS:

GRF now sends her bare roots, stated in her Facebook LIVES, fall 2025, by plant zone to customers, not specified date from customer. That means roses pulled from fields from NeuHouse Farm are first sent in freezers to Star Roses or Certified Roses & processed in fall, then to GRF to be processed again & stored in more freezers. Then warm climates first get shipped GRF bare roots from freezers. The colder zones finally in soring may get whats left over of all bare roots sitting in freezers for how long over winter, after how many months in how many freezers processed from how my different wholesellers.

BIG BOX STORE ROSES: & GRACE ROSE FARM:

When I think about the lengthy process the bare roots go from freezer to freezer passed from grower fields to wholesaler to retailer over the winter from nunerous stares & freezers, & finally to a BIG BOX STORE in spring and why they look very poorly by the time they are for sale in cold zone BIG BIX STORES in body bags by spring-No wonder at BIG BOX stores!! Well, GRF roses will be doing that same process to customers. And pay triple the price for her “GRF Big Box Store” roses. ——————————————-

Recently Aoril & Ashley is now sending out their bare roots in Nov 2025 on dates choosen by customers. WOW-they are advertising ” farm direct fresh” /and they look soooooo amazingly fresh-green-healthy! I just had to order to see these amazing healthy roses in person! They pull the bare roots direct from fields & ship them bc adap to customers-so super fresh! WOW! On A&A facebook firum they arecshowing photos of them being unboxed-BEAUTUFUL really look heakthy with long thick canes and very long roots! WOW! Fabulous!

Pickering used to always offer fall shipping of their bare roots to warm climates. Palatine did too until the early 2020s, when they switched to spring only. Being Canadian nurseries, they were always on multiflora, and we warm zone folks really appreciated getting the freshly pulled bare roots... they were some of the best bare roots ever.

Grace Rose Farm posted photos of how they harvest and store their bare-root roses, and it looks like they’re going to be very competitive this season—assuming they can deliver without any issues. Roots look amazing! They also have 1 year warranty. My garden is full, otherwise I would try them one more time.

For 6 roses with promotions:

If you live on the West Coast the shipping cost will be much lower and I think there are some additional coupons you can use to get the price lower…the caveat is the last two seasons deliveries have been delayed. If you live in the South, you’re better off getting roses at Witherspoons and getting the roses delivered on time. I think they have a good deal going on where if you buy 4, you get free shipping. The temperatures are increasing every year as is the speed between January and March/April...the latest I’d take them is mid February.

I might want to try the Japanese roses from them if I get a chance to order without a membership. They might be better than the “Etsy” roses. I prefer Japanese roses to florist ones in my zone. Beyond the obvious ones, I can recommend Princess Sakura and Träumerei — both are doing very well in my climate.

Koko Loco, Celestial Night, State of Grace etc. all grown by Star Roses, all under $30, around $26. Objectively, those are very good prices for grade 1 bare root roses.

Elena, I would love to see some pictures of your Japanese roses in your garden. I realize you are past rose season, but maybe some from this past summer?

Judi,

Here you are! Thank you for making me looking back on summer!

Princess Sakura

Mikoto

Träumerei

Miyabi

Peach Dye (China)

This is her first year and she is blooming nonstop. Looking very similar to Eisvogel.

Thank you, Elena! I love seeing photos of real life garden roses. Yours look lovely. Princess Sakura is luscious.

@Kittysrosegarden the Japanese ones are grown by Otto & Sons in one gallon sizes if I remember correctly from the live.

The Star Rose bare roots are processed somewhere in Somis, CA by the largest rose processor so it’s not being done at the farm.

It just comes down to price and timeliness. Prices are in-line with other vendors, will they get delivered with no delays?

@Kittysrosegarden In one of Gracelinda’s lives/events, she showed some pictures and some people the Japanese roses being grown by Otto & Sons. These are sold exlusively via GRF. If you want Japanese roses, you should buy it from GRF. I get that a lot of people dislike GRF for a variety of reasons but one she has the legal right and license to grow them and two she is using good budwood.

Alexandra Farms is the owner of Wabara and Princess Garden Roses and that business is connected with GRF via Jose Azout.

Who knows whether the exclusive word carries any meaning when Grace uses it. Grace calls "Pink Tumbleweed" a GRF exclusive, but Star roses has confirmed the same rose is sold as Pink Pinku at Home Depot. At best, she may mean the budwood came from Alexandra Farms, and the Wabara has no designs on selling as a plant to anyone, but has no means to enforce. I don't know this for sure, but to date haven't seen any patents or trademarks on the Japanese varieties.

Further, despite acting as if she's trademarked the terms "Better Bare Root" and "Grow with Grace Guarantee" (written from memory, may not be exact) these terms are not federally trademarked nor pending. Edit: She holds out that she's registered Grace Rose Farm but it's dead/never registered.

I think all the trademarks are a bit ridiculous but I really don’t like knock offs and IP theft. It just doesn’t sit right with me whether it’s One Love Roses or Etsy or whoever. There was another chat recently on My Black Thumb where a buyer was sold diseased roses. Bad budwood or imported plants that aren’t inspected are all round bad.

For the sake of yourself and your community, we should all just buy healthy roses from people who are legally allowed to do so. Royalties to the original breeder allow them to make a living and create more roses.

I doubt if the general term "better bare root" can be trademarked. They aren't so easy to acquire.

I totally agree with your last paragraph, knightsgambit. Diane

@Kittysrosegarden I did hear it in one of the lives at the beginning of the year. I just went to see if it was still there but it no longer is. I'd assume she is getting good budwood because GRF has a partnership with Alexandra Farms, which in turn owns Wabara and Princess. They don't have to propagate from bouquets like Etsy sellers and she herself has said she has gotten budwood from the breeder. Her argument for the memberships is that it takes years to propagate and multiply a given rose and the memberships are for the people that are desperate to have the roses now. There was also an event earlier in the year at Otto's where some people got to see the area where the roses were being grown. It's a pain searching through the entire Facebook group as there are thousands upon thousands of posts and comments.

I doubt you'll find the name of Otto & Sons on the Japanese roses as they are grown for GRF only and not for Otto & Sons customers.

I found it for you:

https://www.facebook.com/gracerosefarm/videos/2270484280073880/?idorvanity=548135557321559

Correct, the term "Better bare root" is likely too generic to be trademarked. Even if it were trademarked, the word mark "better bare root" would be a meaningless term to identify the source and is NOT a verified fact her roses are indeed a better bare root. In other words, the trademarked phrase would not carry weight of the meaning behind the words as she would like to suggest, as the PTO does not verify whether the bare root is "better."

The purpose of a trademark is to identify the source of goods so people can distinguish them from other sources, but the bare roots would be the same as the other NeuHouse Farms' customers, so would they be able to use that trademark as well, if approved? Would not everyone say their bare roots are better than others'?

Even the wordmark "Grace Rose" she claims is registered (R in circle) was denied by the patent and trademark office, and it's somewhat more fanciful than "better bare root." My point is, if she's being this deceitful about owning this "Grace Rose" trademark(s) and acts like "Better Bare root" can be trademarked, what else is she being deceitful about? While no one can speak only in lies and some truths are woven in, that lady is full of smoke and mirrors and I don't put stock in everything she says.

While Jose is not the owner of Princess and Wabara roses as a couple previous comments stated, he did negotiate with them to grow and sell their cut roses in the Americas (there are companies in other parts of the world growing from these breeders). Three (not all) of the Princess rose names have been trademarked in the US- Princess Maya, Suki and Seiki since about 2015. None of the Wabara line has been trademarked, eg. Miyabi. I haven't seen patent information which protects the genetics on any of them, but it is more difficult to search unless you know the breeder code. Typically a patent holder would display this information on a marketing page (see David Austin and Star roses websites) to warn would-be infringers and I've seen none, but please chime in if you have this info.

I can't say Grace's roses are any more healthy than other sources since there have been numerous reports of gall, improper storage, improper handling including not disinfecting pruners between cuts- and denials after customer complaints.

I can understand a gentleman's agreement to purchase budwood and provide royalites to the breeder for varieties not protected by IP, but I have texts showing that once upon a time, Grace balked at paying $9 for exclusive/florist rose plants, inclusive of the finished grown plant AND license that she turned around and sold for ~$77. While it's heresy (but we're not in court), an industry source indicated to avoid paying for additional plants, Grace or her agents chopped the roses down themselves to propagate giving her the idea to allege in her lawsuit against Francis that a shady employee chopped down the plants, this allegation had the dual purpose of explaining why customers received smaller plants than she showed despite boasting they would be 3x bigger after forced overwintering. However, the root systems were miniscule indicating they were young, not chopped, plants suggesting overselling.

Surely there have been changes with Jose at the helm, but speaking on Grace only, if she doesn't have to pay royalties, she won't. Several sources have indicated she's extremely cheap with others while spending lavishly on herself. So far this season, we've seen her release a mouth-watering lookbook to lure memberships that cost $399 & $699 for a chance to purchase limited quantity Japanese varieties, yet the only releases so far have been widely sold Star roses. Undoubtedly the Japanese roses will be offered this season or there will be a loss in credibility, but how many and when... no one knows if the top 2 tier members will even be guaranteed to secure what they want, and the memberships are non-refundable.

Thank you for sharing Roses in Clay - that would explain the own root roses we got. It didn’t seem true that the plants were mature when their root systems were small, undeveloped, and not established in the potting medium

I wandered over here to see what was up after reading windowsill's soap opera! I don't have time to peruse this whole chain. Maybe AI can summarize where GRF is currently sitting. I can tell you, having visited Otto's many times -- you can take one of their rose growing classes and wander their fields -- and see all the POTS! They do have some ground for growing roses -- but those are test fields and demonstration gardens, as far as I have seen. Some of their roses are grafted, some own-root. I dont think they care to keep track. In November they marked all the roses, perennials, fruit trees down by 50%, probably making room for all the new POTS. Did Kitty say Star Roses has test fields in Arroyo Grande? Do they let people see the fields? I'd love to drive up to Arroyo Grande and check out their roses!

@DDinSB (Z10b Coastal CA)

& Rosie Friends,

REPOSTED FROM ON THIS THREAD SCROLL ABOVE……

Researching where GRF’s grower is named & located:

Gracie mentioned in you tube video abov that her roses are grown from best-biggest grower in CA. I also looked at GRF bare roots selection such as Drifts and common classic roses,

I researched to find the grower.

Star Roses appears to have all the basic bare root roses GRF sells. I wrote Star Roses and they replied in above text, that Star Roses grows their roses in NeuHouse Farms’ fields.

NeuHouse Farms website states that they grow Star Roses, Weeks, DA, which appear to be possibly most of Gracie’s bare root roses.

NeuHouse Farms has a large bare root harvest in about Nov/Dec. GRF ships this year her bare roots in January, stated on her website, which is perfect on schedule if she obtained her roses from Neuhouse Farms.

NeuHouse Farms is in ”Central CA, in Wasco, CA,” it states. Gracie says on you tube above, her grower is in ”Central CA.”

GRF appears, from my research, to possibly obtain her bare root roses from NeuHouse Farms: Star Roses, Weeks, DA.

From other research, it appears GRF may be obtaining her potted Estate roses from Otto & Sons. O&S obtains roses from Weeks, Star Roses, & DA, & grow a few specialty roses themselves. Excerpt from Otto& Son’s website…. O&S Obtains their roses from several companies…

(O&S obtains bare roots from above companies, plants bare roots in pots, grows them in pots, & sells them.) Interesting the roses all come as bare roots from NeuHouse Farms , to Otto & Sons, to GRF, eventually.

Recently a member confirmed GRF was obtaining her Wabara & Princess Line roses from Otto & Sons potted, seen on a LIVE FB. i believe Joey Azout, GRF CEO, , has these roses sent to O&S, from his Alexandra Farms, to grow exclusively for GRF this spring 2026. .

STILL RESEARCHING:

I am still researching & wondering where GRF obtains her potted roses from “GRF Look Book… called G. Coveted Roses & Secret Garden Roses….which are many rare roses and a large number of Japanese roses.” These Japanese roses I have seen on ETSY & chinese sellers many times , naming justca few: Yves Cantina, Mikoto, Traumerei…

I researched all the GRF Japanese Roses names from Look Book and I can so far ”only find “HighGarden Roses ” that sells ALL the Japanese roses wholesale, the same roses as GRF advertized that GRF will be selling in spring 2026, Look Book

. . Gracie & Heidi said in a LIVE FB, posted on you tube, that ”Heidi finds many rare roses” from many unique places…. Gracie says she is really surprised how Heidi finds all these rare roses. One rose Heidi found in Canada. So where are the bulk of these “GRF rare & Japanese roses,” coming from?

Kitty -- forgive me if you know this already -- Arroyo Grande is on the coast, moments from Pismo Beach. I've never heard of rose fields there -- so if there are, please tell me! Otto is inland and the Wasco/Bakersfield are even more inland. I looked at your screenshots, but I don't see Arroyo Grande?

The rare and Japanese roses are coming from China. Betya. Diane

@DDinSB (Z10b Coastal CA)

NeuHouse Farms is in Wasco, CA. I don’t know of a farm in Arroyo Grande-I searched it recently.