The grass could be replaced with shrubs that are tall enough to hide the leaves. That leads to no mowing and no raking.

I don't understand the problem. If you like the tree, keep the tree. If you like the grass, keep the grass. If you like them both, keep them both.

What is the issue?

Problem? The grass seems to be dying, The suspected csuse is the tree roots.

Of course I want them both. The tree is priority ” 1. You have a suggestion as to how

to ”keep them both” please share…Ty!

The issue is/are:

a) ugly brown lawn

b) Fear the above ground roots indicate a problem with the tree.__or a future one with a lawn mower that can/ does nick the protruding roots.

You can't have it both ways. Please don't put fake grass there. It will be lumpy and bumpy over those tree roots and look , well, AWFUL. and fake especially right there next to your gloroious green real lawn You cannot fight the tree roots on the surface. Put some attractive mulch (bark, or rock) and enjoy your tree. \

-Babka

The surface roots don’t mean anything is wrong with your tree; it is characteristic of many species as they mature. You can’t stop it, so you have to work with it. As Babka says, mulch is your friend here.

I can probably help, but I need a little more information.

Where in SoCal do you live? Because Indio, Palos Verdes, and Big Bear Lake are in SoCal but have much different climate and soil situations.

What kind of grass do you currently have in the affected area?

What is your watering schedule? How often and for how long do you water that area?

When were the last two times you fertilized and what did you use?

Have you used herbicide, insecticide, or fungicide in that area in the past year? If so, what did you use and when?

Life happened…Sorry for late reply. dchall, our area is coastal Ca.

Yes, fake grass won’t work= lumpy, bumpy yuk. New, maybe awful idea: Next to lawn strip is a small hill of shrubs and ivy. The ivy has been having its way with the shrubs …bad maintenance on our part:( Any thoughts on how it would look if we allowed the ivy to take over the lawn strip and cover the tree roots…though NOT the tree trunk!

I’m just unable to imagine it…can you? New pics. Again…really appreciate your input. TY!

Ummm, you're being vague about where you live. I promise we won't come over for Thanksgiving. I'm going to assume you do not live at Palos Verdes or La Jolla, because even though they are 5 feet from the Pacific, they are 200 feet above it and usually don't refer to their property as coastal. I will assume you are in Santa Barbara and within 1 mile of the beach. That means you are subject to late night and early morning fog for much of the year followed by a 2pm sea breeze every day.

I don't see ivy in the picture. Is it English ivy? I've never had ivy personally, but neighbors have. It seems messy and tough to control due to the thick stems as it spreads. I have had Asiatic jasmine which can be controlled with a string trimmer just fine. It also has that jasmine fragrance in the spring once it is established. It can be mowed at a mower's highest setting or trimmed at about any height up to 15 inches. In a Santa Barbara climate it does spread all year long, so you'd have to trim up against the tree, driveway, and wall about once a month.

Guess I am a little bit of a privacy geek( vs, freak :) Genreal vicinity of Laguna Niguel, 3 miles from ocean. While I’d prefer a spreading groundcover over *ivy, I’ve no idea what would grow over the roots. Gardengal, “drought tolerent ”, but the tree isnt, so…?

* and my English ivy has been invaded by another form…forgotten name kindly provided to me by another forum member.

So, dig up lawn and plant an appropriate groundcover? Here is better pic of ivy, in case its an option. If anyone is still here, TY for any additional or particulatb ideas.

Sweetgums are more drought tolerant than you may think. That's why they are used so extensively in SoCal (my sister had 13 (!) planted in her Dana Point garden). Certainly far more DT than most turf grasses!

That is definitely English ivy growing....looks like needlepoint or other fancy leaf cultivar that has reverted. Extremely common. It would not be my first choice. While not as invasive there as it is in the PNW, it is still a very aggressive spreader and also tends to be a very desirable habitat for rats and other rodents.

Here's a couple of links to other popular DT groundcovers for a SoCal garden.

https://www.mostlynatives.com/native-groundcovers

https://www.garden-view.com/landscape-design/our-favorite-groundcovers/

Laguna Niguel, 3 miles from ocean. Thanks. That was a brave thing to do. I guess John Wayne would be the best airport for us to arrive. ;-) But I was still right about the sea breeze and morning fog, wasn't I? I lived in Hawthorne, 3 miles from the beach, for 10 years.

You have a fantastic resource in Roger's Gardens next to Fashion Island. They have been there since forever and know everything about yardening. They know your soil and microclimate, and they know what will survive with the sweetgum tree. I assume your photos are on your phone. That will help them to help you.

Most non-grass types of ground covers will cover your roots and you'll never know they are there. Ground covers come in two varieties: spreading and non spreading. If you get a non spreading one like Mondo Grass, you'll need enough plants to 'cover' the ground. Whereas if you use a spreading ground cover like ivy or the jasmine I mentioned, you can plant those at 1-ft intervals, and they will spread to cover...eventually. The other thing to know about spreading ground covers is this age old gardening saying: The first year they sleep, the second year they creep, the third year they leap. I still say to let Roger's help you figure this out. Besides it's a fun and inspirational place to visit.

And GG, next time you visit your sister, get her to take you up to Roger's Gardens. Frankly I have not been there for 40 years, but the website pictures tell me it's only gotten better.

Lol!! David, my sister moved back up north here going on 15 years ago. But I have been to Roger's numerous times. I agree that if the OP has not been, she should. It's a fabulous place. Also worth a visit is the Plant Depot in San Juan Capistrano. Not quite as upscale as Roger's but a fantastic plant selection and knowledgeable staff.

I visit nurseries and garden centers everywhere I travel. It's a compulsion :-))

Just observing from the Midwest. Here uphill of the confluence of the continent's two largest rivers it is difficult to keep grass from growing unless:

-The construction company did some grading and sold the top soil.

-You have 24 hours of shade and I see sun in the pic.

But your tree's roots have spread too far to be new construction.

For constructive thought, if you do go with ivy, besides trimming it back I have concerns about keeping things from growing in it. If I tried an ivy area I'd be beating back the blasted honeysuckle only to find a half dozen different vines snuck in. Is that less of a concern where you are?

Looks like you have a nice place btw.

David( ha!GG gave you up ;) I hosted a get-together of forum friends a few years ago, so yes, John Wayne is best…ya’ll come! We can visit Rogers Gardens , spring is my fav time to go. GG, I also like the much smaller Green Thumb.

Back to subject : Look what I found… My Ca. Garden post re.the infiltrator of the English ivy. Note the respondent … and Ty again, B :)

“With Algerian ivy (if that is what you got), you will have a lifetime of trying to remove it.

Wishing you the best of luck. Yours for a lifetime!

-Babka”

Toronado, Ty, it is a pretty area with lots of trees, an almost country feel yet close to

big city stuff. I can miss a little less the gorgeous fall colors of Ohio (where we lived for a few years) . The pic below is the only unwanted visitor to the ivy.

I didn't want to ”get down in the weeds” ( ha!)!with this post, but if I do allow the ivy from the hill to take over/ replace the dying lawn , will the outlaw ivy pose a problem?

Its not unattractive by itself. OK, Im done. Hope some of you are still here.

P.s. thanks for that groundcover list, gg . Gotta say, though, recommending ivy geranium is bonkers…unless constant deadheading is considered ok.

Lungwort is a nice ground cover for me in a very shady spot.

To me, it looks like the grass is not getting enough water, but the OP says it is.

Really the grass isn't getting enough water or nutrients.

Tree roots can grow much deeper than grass, stealing moisture and nutrients from underneath and even within the root zone of the sod.

It's actually a conundrum to ask how to grow both in the same proximity to each other. Generally, you can't.

Look along the edging of the shrubbery, even there the grass isn't doing well. Reason being the shrub roots have annexed the soil outside the edging by growing underneath it with the same results.

It wouldn't be easy to edge just that area around the tree, covering with mulch or ground covers, and have it look good.

It would be easier and look better imho, to do the entire area between the shrub edging and driveway, from the driveway pillars up past the tree far enough to be out of the tree root zone.

What kind of grass do you currently have in the affected area?

What is your watering schedule? How often and for how long do you water that area?

When were the last two times you fertilized and what did you use?

Have you used herbicide, insecticide, or fungicide in that area in the past year? If so, what did you use and when?

More water and fertilizer will only cause the trees and the shrubs to grow all the more and so much faster. Not an answer for this kind of problem.

Shrub and Tree roots are just way more aggressive than grass/turf roots and turf/lawn grasses are water lovers that don't like competition from deeper rooted plants.

Still need answers to the questions to know if more or less water is needed and whether the timing of the water is appropriate.

Nothing to do with water or fertilizing can help with the conditions presented.

The tree and shrub roots have taken over period.

David, I believe Bill is correct here( first name basis now?). The grass is the proper type for our zone, as is the amount of water and the timing and kind of fertilizer. I will take my pics to trusted nurseries for their input. Who knows, perhaps we’ll have a miracle winter rain that cures all ills. Till then, Happy Thanksgiving to you all. I am thankful for forum helpers!

marti

The "unwanted visitor" is also ivy. All the leaves in your picture are various cultivars of Hedera helix, English Ivy. It can revert which is probably why you have done classic shaped leaves among the other different shapes.

WHAT KIND OF GRASS DO YOU CURRENTLY HAVE IN THE AFFECTED AREA?

WHAT IS YOUR WATERING SCHEDULE? HOW OFTEN AND FOR HOW LONG DO YOU WATER THAT AREA?

WHEN WERE THE LAST TWO TIMES YOU FERTILIZED AND WHAT DID YOU USE?

HAVE YOU USED HERBICIDE, INSECTICIDE, OR FUNGICIDE IN THAT AREA IN THE PAST YEAR? IF SO, WHAT DID YOU USE AND WHEN?

It's really important to know these answers.

The best thing to do in this situation is to do a remake of that part of the yard. Including removal of older shrubs & trees, basically start over with new plants.

I know, it's a lot of work and most people don't like to hear that, but landscapes do have a life cycle and after 35 years or so, things get so overgrown there's not a lot else you can do other than chopping and hacking things back to try to keep things in check.

You could keep the tree by creating a grassless area with mulch as first suggested by GG, and if the shrubs must stay, then what I mentioned earlier about mulching the entire area along the driveway. But sometimes starting anew is the only way to resolve many of the problems created by old, overgrown landscaping.

Refreshing this post for a happy ending. We DID receive a gift from mama nature in an abundant winter rain. We truly were treating it nicely with sprinklers and proper fertilizers. I swear, theres just something magical in rainwater . Must say again how kind you all were in efforts to help the lawn , my tree and me…including David who yelled at me! 🫣😄😂

The pic was early spring and looks the same now. Fingers staying

crossed!Trees had just been trimmed. oh! And the odd ivy ihas its uses.

.

I'M GLAD EVERYTHING WORKED OUT.

Seriously.

Rain does seem to be different from tap or well water. We've gotten about 10 inches in the past 3 weeks, and you'd never know we were (still) in an extreme drought.

Apropos the ivy. The leaves in the vase are those of the stems that ivy puts out when it's going to flower. This is the adult phase when the ivy stops climbing and becomes shrubby. The leaf shape in this phase is the same whatever fancy variations are present in the juvenile phase. Watch out for that as the subsequent berries are what contributes to making ivy so invasive in some places.

There is always my solution to area where it is difficult to grow grass, mulch, flower beds, or let it go wild and manicure it to look natural. Nice green grass is nice, but sometimes it is a loosing battle, and reaches a point where it is time to rethink the strategy.