According to Tantau this rose was newly released in 2023. Unless people in Europe or other areas of the world are able to chime in it is unlikely anyone in the USA has it. We do not have access to many Tantaus.

Wow, I wish breeders wouldn't reuse names! I have the 1977 dark red Deep Secret, also from Tantau. It stays dark red and short, though it's a little finicky in my winters. I didn't know they were using the name again for a dark purple rose. Sheesh - couldn't they call this one Deep Purple or something? Obviously I haven't grown that one.

Cynthia

Tantau senior died decades ago, and even junior has been gone quite a while. Don't think the newly released rose was bred by one of them. I agree names reused and recycled are just too confusing. Christian Evers and, earlier, Hans Evers have bred most of the newer roses for Tantau. Diane

The information on HMFR states that Deep Secret was bred by Jens Kruger, before 2017 (?- not sure if that means that the rose was bred before 2017, or that Jens Kruger died in 2017. Why my questioning, because I recently read that Jens Kruger became Tantau's director in 1985, just about 40 yrs. ago.).

HMFR further states that Deep Secret was introduced in Germany last year, 2023.

Deep Secret has a remarkable bloom color. I see a tint of light brown to my eyes, of course that's going from the photos provided on HMFR. The bloom also appears that it may be flat in profile, but the bloom(s) in question may be from very young bushes which have not matured enough to show their blooms' full form.

Moses

I think I investigated the wrong Deep Secret above, sorry! Well, I learned something. I thought Tantau was either a Dutch, Belgian, Danish or Swedish rose house. German it is. So, my time was not wasted entirely

Moses

Question for the OP: are you talking about the 1977 Deep Secret?

Thankyou @dianela7analabama, I think this is where my confusion came in. It seems odd that the nursery with the original 1976-77 rose would introduce another with the same name, but when I looked on Tantau's website, I saw something similar.

Thankyou, @nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska, yes, it is the 1976-77 one that I am interested in. Various UK nurseries offering a rose of this name, but the colouring varies between deep purple and true red in the photos. Not all nurseries state the date of breeding of their roses. I guess the lesson for me is to only buy from nurseries which do give the date and provenance! Glad to hear how your rose grows. It only gets to about -5°c /23 ° F for me here, but summers rarely above 35°c./95° F.

Thankyou, @Diane Brakefield, that is helpful to know. I think I need to look up the roses that the two Evers have bred. Rosa Deep Secret appears on various lists as being a 'good red'. Here in the UK, the leading nursery David Austin, seems to be reducing the number of red roses they sell, which I think is a shame.

Thankyou, @Moses, Pitt PA, cold W & hot-humid S, z6, I agree about the colouring of Deep Secret, on the HMFR website. How strange that Tantau would use the same name for two different roses. Deep Secret (1976-77) is very well known and I think, admired, but presumably is a true red always...

Thankyou, @susan9santabarbara, a very good question! Yes, it is the 1977(or 76) rose that I am hoping to grow!

Glad to hear that, @Moses, Pitt PA, cold W & hot-humid S, z6, I am grateful for your research!

I found this info from a Yorkshire-based UK nursery (not bought from them yet) :

"Large and semi-globular very deep red flowers - said to be the best red. Good disease resistance. Raised by Mathias Tantau, Jr (Germany) 1977 from a cross between unknown parents, and was introduced by Wheatcroft in 1977."

It should remain a good, deep red for you Clematis, although it pinked out a bit for me. I got frustrated with it because it was stingy with blooms, but I recall Omori (Showa on this forum?) grew a lovely one. It’s an old but still very popular HT, aka Mildred Scheel.

I hadn’t seen or heard of the 2017 purple florists rose by the same name, but it seems to have been re-released very recently as a garden rose - TCL, that popular Dutch rose nursery many of us order from, now sells it, but yeah, why not rename it Deep Purple or something..

Clematiscoast, you are welcome. I have grown Hans Evers' Ascot, two of them, three Bernstein-Rose plants, and Augusta Luise for many years. I think Ashley may be a Christian Evers rose. I grow that rose and love her. Diane

Roses above are Ascot and Ashley. Just below are Bernstein-Rose. All photos from 2024.

Augusta Luise

Thankyou very much, @Diane Brakefield, lovely photos of your roses. It is good to see roses not grown in a park or nursery. I am really taken with Ascot (plumes of petals - globular/chalice-shaped?) and the warm glow of Bernstein-Rose. I have a soft spot for really big, robust roses, I admire their strength and find them so tactile.

Thanks again, Clematis. I, too, like them large and robust. And these roses are, though Bernstein is a small rose and the blooms are medium. The color, often deep amber, makes up for the smaller size. Ascot and Jude the Obscure are most globular roses I think. I don't know about your climate, but here, Ascot is pretty huge, and wants to stay that way. Diane

Just for fun, Clematis Rosemoor. I think it would good well with Ascot.

Thankyou, @Diane Brakefield, and that clematis is impressive. Gorgeous deep tones, I agree I can see that and Rosa Ascot getting on together famously!

Susan - oooh...I love those colors!! I ordered a Deep Secret for spring. :) :)

Thankyou, @susan9santabarbara, those are fantastic photos, especially given how difficult red flowers are to photograph. So gorgeous, you have really captured what I love about this rose :) I can't wait to receive mine and smell the fragrance, in the summer. I can quite see why you might wish to have more than one in your garden!

Me too, @rosecanadian, I have ordered a standard to go in a container, as they fit in my space better. Something to look forward to when winter fades away :)

Oh, wonderful!! :) :) I think it would be gorgeousl as a standard. :) :)

@NollieSpainZ9, thank you so much for your reply from 10 days ago. I received a notification for it late last night. Some gremlins in the system! I will reply as soon as possible. Please don't think I intentionally ignored you or anyone else!

Anyone else noticing gremlins re writing posts and receiving notifications? Sent Saturday GMT '14:04, December 7, 2024

I read this forum on the web, so I don't rely on notifications, etc. I just have the site bookmarked, and click on the bookmark. Everything comes up in chronological order of latest posts, with threads I haven't read all comments on bolded. Easy as pie!

Thankyou, @susan9santabarbara, great tip - I will try that and hope the gremlins will give up... :D

@NollieSpainZ9, thankyou, that is very helpful of you. I thought it would be a good rose for my part dappled shade garden. It will receive direct sun, @ 1130-1600, if I keep on top of pruning other plants. It never gets too hot here, and I can move it about in its pot to find a better spot, eg protected from bright sun, if necessary. It is difficult to plan with the changing climate patterns we are all receiving!