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nancyjane_gardener

Leaves or no leaves?

7 months ago

I was reading an article on leaving leaves. I just dumped about 6" of leaves on my bare veggie beds and covered in cardboard. At the end of the article it said to get the leaves OFF of veggie beds!

Now I'm confused!

Comments (16)

  • PRO
    7 months ago

    I've laid down cardboard and then leaves or other on top of that to keep the weeds down in some bed areas. In the veggie beds I've often mulched them in with leaves or pine straw. Plants seem to like it just fine. Have not topped with cardboard though. Why did the article say that is was a bad idea to have leaves on your veggie beds?

  • 7 months ago

    Thick layers of whole (unshredded) leaves block air and water from the soil. That will slow natural composting in the soil. They can also seal in soggy soil and promote root rot. Whole leaves tend to form a soggy mat that can take many years to break down.

  • 7 months ago

    I always use shredded leaves on my beds -- vegetable beds included. They break down quickly when shredded; 6" would be down to almost nothing by spring. Unshredded may or may not break down quickly, depends on what type of leaves they are. Maples, for example, rapidly decompose, while oaks do not. Still, I've used unshredded oak leaves mixed in with other unshredded leaves and it's fine; I wouldn't use a high ratio of unshredded oak, though -- that probably would result in a heavy mat of leaves.

    Don't stress too much about it. Think about it for a minute. Who removes the leaves in the forest? That's right -- no one, yet plants still manage to make their way through the thick layer of leaf letter, even small spring ephemerals.

    I would remove the cardboard, though, unless you are trying to smother weeds. Why did you put it down? Are you trying to smother weeds or keep the leaves from blowing away or some other reason?

  • 7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    Well, in a leaf-covered forest, only the very lucky plants manage to make it up. An average forest sure isn't the place you point at for sterling germination and young growth.

    As noted, whole leaves can be an adequate mulch, but not if the layer is too thick. 6" is probably too thick. You might note that a large pile of unshredded leaves composts VERY slowly. The same pile of shredded leaves composts more quickly.

    I often throw unshredded leaves into a bed I've dug deeply, but in inch or so layers with soil between the layers. This will compost in situ nicely.

  • 7 months ago

    I'd use a thick layer of leaves/cardboard over an older exhausted plot that I wanted to keep dormant for year or two. They would help smother the weed growth and over time the soil organisms would digest the leaves from the bottom up.

  • 7 months ago

    I'll get rid of about half the leaves. Most are pretty delicate (pistasche), so should break down. It sounded like the author was from back East, as he/she mentioned lightning bugs, which we don't have in California.

  • PRO
    7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    I love fireflies. If you pile the leaves too deep, that can mess with their overwintering. A thinner layer of them can help encourage some companion gardening. Fireflies are very beneficial in the garden as bad bug eaters and pollinators.

  • 7 months ago

    I dumped enough leaves to cover my garden with about 8" of fluffy leaves and then I used my zero turn with mulching blades to shred them ending up with a 1/2" or so of fine leaf mulch. I spread a little nitrogen to feed the microbes during the fall season and will do it again in early spring to continue feeding micros when ground temps gets above 41 degrees. All this will be worked into the soil come spring and the reason I do this is for organic matter, but without adding a source of nitrogen to offset the high carbon levels (or low nitrogen levels) in the leaves the microbes will pull it from the soil and deprive your plants of nitrogen early in the season. This is why they're telling you to take the leaves off the bed.

    Organic matter is very good for your soil, I wouldn't remove the leaves but just mulch it up with a mower and throw in a little nitrogen to feed the microbes, then start planting as usual. The cardboard I would remove because it's carbon content is 6 times that of leaves and nearly the same as working in wood chips, this can really throw your soil nitrogen levels out of wack.

    I also prepped Rows I'll use for early spring vegetables including the rows I used for garlic. I took an ample amount of leaves and green grass (about 50/50 by weight, just guessed) with some nitrogen and compost then tilled it in. I hate trying to prep wet ground in the spring so theses rows are ready to go. The fresh green grass clippings are high in nitrogen and balance the carbon ratio in the leaves so microbes can be fed well.

    Microbial activity starts and ends at 41 degrees so during the fall the leaves got a few months of minor decomposition and will start again in spring when soil temps hit 42 degrees.



  • 7 months ago

    That sounds like a good going-forward strategy. I pile my leaves, mow the pile, and then sprinkle the pile of shreds with N to kick up the composting. After a few months, the composting is done, and I can add the pile to my beds without depriving my beds of N. But if you want to put whole leaves on your beds, you need to be careful.

  • 7 months ago

    What Dan said. I have a lot of oak leaves that I compost whole in bins, but slowly, 6 mos to break down and that’s with some supplemental water and turning ( in fall I try to rake up leaves destined for compost right after a rain, for free dampening). But if I piled whole leaves thickly on veggie bed , they would not be decomposed enough by the time I’m planting again.
    I do shred some leaves in a standing shredder, and that’s garden gold, because can use at any stage— just- shredded can go anywhere as mulch, and if binned, they break down much faster yet again, can find ways to use the material at any time in the compost life cycle. But it’s time- consuming and boring to shred , and lot of leaf fall is not anywhere close to where I can set up the shredder.

  • PRO
    7 months ago

    Similar here in Savannah. Some leaves like bamboo, crepe myrtle, and bald cypress are so fine they can be piled anywhere and are gone by spring. Oaks and magnolias I mow and bag so they can go straight into the gardens. Our city composts all yard waste so that’s a great source of bulk to add to gardens to improve the texture- it’s free as much as you can dig up.

  • 7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    Be aware, however, that the benefit of digging leaves into a garden bed is NOT nutrition. The fertilization potential of leaf matter is minimal, and possibly even negative. To some extent, uncomposted leaves will suck N out of your soil. The main benefit of adding this organic matter is soil structure, making the soil loose and friable, greatly improving aeration and water percolation.

    Very good point that different varieties of leaves behave differently. I have mostly oak and cedar elm and, if left unshredded, the oak, in particular, will take YEARS to degrade and compost in situ. It's high in lignin, which is resistant to degradation. By the same token, once shredded, oak leaves will provide friability and loft in the soil for many many years.

    Interestingly, ruminants like cows and goats have gut fungi that break down lignin efficiently. Soil doesn't generally have much of that that fungi. One might assume that if you mix manure with oak leaves, the urea and gut fungi will greatly speed up the lignin degradation.

  • 7 months ago

    This thread is typical of the room full of monkeys prank. A kid became bored playing football alone so he tossed the ball into a room full of monkeys. Choas broke out as every monkey in the room began trying to hump the ball at the same time. The kid was entertained but eventually moved on. He stopped by each time he passed following three weeks to watch monkeys still at it.


    It has been three weeks since original post and no one knows (A) what op hoped to accomplish by placing leaves (B) what op wished cardboard to do (C) why op placed leaves midway of reading an article then finished reading article to find it recommended leaves be removed. It's enough to make a person wonder if the half baked question was seeking information or entertainment.



  • 7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    The OP had a pretty clear question. Why not dump whole leaves on a garden bed? The cardboard was an irrelevant aside. The discussion developed into why dump ANY leaves on a garden bed. That's a sensible and fair discussion topic. Chill, please.

  • 7 months ago

    ^^ What Dan said.