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kendrahhendra

New electric panel and grounding questions.

3 months ago
last modified: 3 months ago

#1 - What's the best electricians forum I can post the question on as a home owner who knows little?

#2 - In case anyone here knows enough to answer, here is the situation. I am considering purchasing a condo unit in a 1960 building. Here's the situation in the unit:

- Old Zinsco panel. Fire hazard, needs to go.

- Electrician confirmed wires are BX, not cloth, checked in panel and in some outlets to confirm

- Although all outlets are three prong, there is no grounding wire.

- Although there are 3 existing GFCI outlets, they too have no grounding wire.

The electrician said they can do the quoted work below, which will bond but not ground the outlets. He said this is fine, will pass inspection. He said all GFCI panels will be protected at the panel. He said this is a kosher way of updating the system without having to open the walls in the entire apartment to run a grounding wire.

Is this safe? Is this correct? Is it ok to have a bonded but not grounded system?

See comment below for specifics on the work that his quote covered to upgrade the system.


#3 - Please do not tell me to just not buy this place. My back is against a wall and there are many other reasons why I need to consider this condo unit. If you think this system is not a smart one, please let me know why.

Comments (13)

  • 3 months ago

    Here is the scope of work:


    100 Amp Flush Mount Panel with a Surge

    Supply and install an Eaton CH Series 100 Amp flush mount 24 circuit panel with a builtin premium whole house surge protector.

    Isolate the grounding as per code requirements.

    Install GFCI protection on the Oven Circuit (40 Amp 220v )

    Cut out the plaster and drywall around the existing panel to allow for a larger panel.


    Fireguard protection package (6)

    Disconnect and remove existing breaker and connection.

    Supply and install an Eaton CH Combination Series AFCI Self Test / Self Diagnostic Arc Fault breaker at the same time as the panel installation ( PER EACH BREAKER ).

    As per NEC code 210.12 (a) (1)

    All 120-volt, single-phase, 15-amp, and 20-amp branch circuits supplying outlets or devices are installed in a dwelling unit. Kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by any of the means described in 210.12 (a) (1-6)

    (1) A listed combination type arc fault circuit interrupter, installed to protect the ENTIRE BRANCH CIRCUIT.

    *Once the breaker is installed, Any diagnosis of an existing arc fault is not included in this proposal and would be an additional cost.*


    Device Replacement (25)

    Disconnect and remove existing receptacle ( standard switch / outlet ) and existing connections within receptacle box.

    Supply and install a new Eaton receptacle ( switch / outlet ) with approved UL Listed safety requirements.

    Supply and install new copper single conductor receptacle feeders and mechanically tightened connections for safe and quality receptacle attachment.


    LED Dimmer (5)

    Disconnect and remove the existing switch or dimmer.

    Install a new LED rated dimmer.


    20 Amp Circuit (2)

    Supply, wire, and install a dedicated 20 amp circuit with a FireGuard Breaker within 5’ of the panel.

    (1) circuit for the refrigerator

    (1) circuit for the half bathroom on the same wall as the panel


    GFCI Protection Safety Device (5)

    Disconnect and remove existing receptacle and connections.

    Supply and install a new Eaton TR / ST GFCI Receptacle(PER EACH).

    As per NEC code 210.8 (a) (1-10)

    GFCI protection is required for all 125v-250v receptacles rated 50 amp or less supplied by a single phase branch circuit in the following areas; basements ( finished & unfinished ), bathrooms, crawl spaces, laundry room, garage, all areas where there is a sink, all outdoor areas, and kitchens.

    Supply and install new wiremold boxes to provide appropriate depth for safety devices.

  • PRO
    3 months ago
    last modified: 3 months ago

    Most condo's have one or two electricians who are "board certified/approved" for insurance reasons. The only choices allowed you, for any potential alterations. Is that where the quote cam from?

    You can't suffer construction, paint, smells, anything and you need the place after months of search with a DOG and a mom headed to chemo.

    You are going to have to trust someone, and grounding AT the circuit box is common in older buildings that can not be chopped up at multiples of units. I have the exact same scenario, where the entire building is not copper wire and all the circuit panels were replaced in every unit, and in the basement sources.

    I doubt every unit in the building has been torn up and totally re wired. You will have the "risk" of other residents, no matter what you elect to do.

    Discuss with the board, / other owners/ super of the building and I am certain you will find not all have been "upgraded" to current anything "code"

    Adequate/maximum insurance coverage will be your friend as well.

    Not sure why you started another thread, as the chop up of walls and a huge electrical upgrade, would be out of the question in any scenario - with a length delay, and given other units would hardly matter?: ) plus the no stairs, dog approved, allergies etc and all other.

  • 3 months ago

    grounding AT the circuit box is common in older buildings


    Thank you @JAN MOYER. This is good to know.


    I randomly called the top listed electric company on a google search (which I never do) hoping they would have more experience with condos, permiting, and inspectors. It worked. They had done four or five panel replacements in this building and permitting and inspection seemed like no big deal to them. We ran into the super when the guy was here for the quote and he was able to answer some questions.


    If I purchase this unit I will get two other quotes after closing.

  • PRO
    3 months ago
    last modified: 3 months ago

    " If I purchase this unit"........................what has changed?!

    You just said......

    "Please do not tell me to just not buy this place. My back is against a wall and there are many other reasons why I need to consider this condo unit."

    You're going to wring a hand until you are back in your old twin bed at Mom's house, alone, with the dog. In the mystery city. Just sayin.......: )

  • 3 months ago

    DIYChatroom has licensed electricians on board.

  • 3 months ago

    " If I purchase this unit" - @JAN MOYER, oh I'm just not wanting to jinx myself before we enter into contract and it is a done deal. Sadly my old twin bed is long gone. It was a beauty. Just an uncomfortable Ethan Allen pullout in my parents' crammed office now. :)

  • PRO
    3 months ago

    Throwing another roadblock in front of yourself, is one SURE way to jinx it.

    Your list of requirements exceeds all availability of living spaces unless you shall buy yourself a bed for Moms house, and a coordinating dog bed for the four legged creature. Read all your threads!

    Cease the hand wring, buy plenty of insurance coverage, and move on with whatever electrician makes sense. As to "quote" - nobody wants to be ripped in any way, but your issues do not include resource issues. Proceed........: )

  • 3 months ago

    What roadblocks am I throwing? I’m proceeding: Inspection, offer, contract, closing… I don’t need to read my threads. I’m living them. :)


    If only I could throw myself amd a dog bed at my parents’ apartment, this whole mess would not be an issue. Alas, they don’t live in a pet friendly building. Their realtor neighbor joked not even goldfish are allowed.

  • 3 months ago

    Fond greetings,Kendrah! Your request for eggy custards has no"add a comment "section,so putting this here.
    I like to make clafoutis,an eggy dish using fruits such as sliced apple,sliced peach,sliced pear,pitted cherries,any other berries.
    Preheat oven to 375f.
    Butter a cast iron pan.
    Beat well together:one cup milk,two tablespoons melted butter,4 eggs,one half cup sugar,one teaspoon vanilla.
    Add in one half cup all purpose flour and mix well.
    Now put a layer of fruit into bottom of pan.
    Pour batter over,adding a bit more fruit on top if you like.
    Bake on middle oven rack ,check after about 20minutes.
    It will be nicely puffy and done in about 30 to 40 minutes

    Kendrah thanked rosiembog
  • PRO
    3 months ago

    That sounds deliscious!!!:)

  • 3 months ago

    Thanks for tracking me down here @rosiembog . My brother used to make fresh cherry clafoutis. I forgot all about it. Thanks for the recipe.

  • PRO
    3 months ago

    aurrggghhhh Typo! Oh nooooo.....

    DELICIOUS!!. That is why I do not use the darn app. I can't really see on the stupid phone.

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