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choufleur11

Tiny wall kitchen help: which appliances would you compromise on?

20 days ago

I'm remodelling a tiny corner/wall kitchen. Currently it has comically large full size appliances which make it non-functional and block walkways.


Dimension are:

Main wall: 9'8" wide

adjacent wall: 4'10" wide

Ceiling height: 7'6"

other borders are stairs and entranceway, so they cannot be used.


I would like to include: fridge, glass cooktop, range hood, wall oven, build-in wall microwave, and dishwasher. Which appliances would you rather be minimized in this setup? I don't cook very much but I would like to keep this place functional in case I have to sell in the future.


Currently the fridge is blocking the living room entrance, and the W/D is partially blocking the doorway so it will be moved into the bathroom.


Thank you!



Comments (23)

  • 20 days ago

    Personally, I would ditch the microwave in favour of more storage space, and I would put in a smaller-than-standard fridge. I would also ditch the idea of wall ovens and get a range instead of a cooktop. That would also allow for the fridge to not hang over the edge of the wall (into the passageway) as much. If I don't use the the kitchen area much, I might consider a portable dishwasher with a sink hookup, rather than a built in. It can be rolled into and out of the space when needed (they come in 24" and 18" widths).

  • 20 days ago

    Consider going with a small induction cooktop, and maybe just 2 or 3 ”hobs”. Honestly, in that size place, do you need more than 2? But 3 might be better for resale?

  • 20 days ago

    Wall oven? Seriously? That was the first thing I mentally jettisoned when planning my kitchen remodel.

    Move the refrigerator to where the wall oven is, and put the sink in the corner. If you are that cramped for space, an OTR microwave is your friend.

  • 20 days ago

    I'm definitely getting a smaller/narrower fridge, maybe a portable microwave but the dishwasher and W/D I would rather it built-in because there isn't anywhere else to store it. I am getting a compact W/D LG combo machine for the bathroom to free up space. The place is super tiny and the opposite side is all windows. I've been looking at the 18-inch dishwashers, trying to figure out if under counter fridge drawers are space saving for this kitchen or not

  • 20 days ago

    An 18" dishwasher is great for such a tiny space. I have the Miele 18" with 3 racks and really like it. If you don't cook everyday, you can use the DW as a storage space. Use the top rack for all your serving spoons, ladles, salad tongs, meat forks and such. Use the second rack for occasional serving pieces, extra mugs, and stemless wine glasses. Then use the bottom rack for larger pots and pans you don't use often. Some of that stuff will come out when you're entertaining anyway, but you don't have to leave the space empty every day. If you use a 2 hob induction cooktop (I think they come as narrow as 12-15 inches), you would have more counter space. There are pretty good combo appliances these days that give you oven, microwave, and airfryer capability in one unit.

    Can you open up access to that dead corner from either space on the other side of the wall?

  • 20 days ago

    @smiling oh great, I was interested in the Miele. What other appliances do you have? I was hoping to use the oven and dishwasher as "storage" space like I did in my last TinyKitchen.

    Those portable combo microwave/steam ovens would probably work well... I have to keep the range hood where it is (as it vents out there) unfortunately, so that is where the cooktop would be. This is why I was thinking of a wall oven and stacked appliances on one end where the oven is, with cabinets below and above the appliances. Unfortunately I can't move the wall on that side as the first 4ft is the bathroom and the rest is the fridge sitting in the living room. Here is a photo of the current appliances (I am replacing them all):


  • 20 days ago

    24 in range..18 in dishwasher ..if you can get it plugged ..place an apartment size fridge on left wall..just a black line there right now. i did a thanksgiving dinner prep w a 24 in range .

  • 20 days ago
    last modified: 20 days ago

    "W/D is partially blocking the doorway so it will be moved into the bathroom"

    Once you move the washer/dryer out, you can put the dishwasher in it's place and slide the refrigerator to the right so it doesn't extend into the entrance.

    You can use the IKEA Kitchen Planner to design the space. I'd consider installing wall cabinets only on the 9'8" wall.

    choufleur11 thanked wdccruise
  • 19 days ago
    last modified: 18 days ago

    Choufleur 11: Regarding your wanting a glass cooktop and wall oven, your choices may be constrained by the kitchen's wiring. A separate glass-cooktop (whether induction or radiant electric) and an electric oven will each need a 240v/208v circuit. Do you know if the kitchen has any 240v or 208v outlets?

    From the photo above, the present range (an LG?) looks like an all gas model but maybe it is a dual fuel model (gas burners on top and electric oven below)? If the latter, there will be a 40 Amp 240v outlet behind it. That would be sufficient for any 24" wide induction or glass-top radiant range such as the IKEA model wdccruise suggested. (Also, sufficient for many 30" inch radiant and induction ranges, as well.) However, that circuit may not be sufficient if what you have in mind is a separate "glass cooktop" above an electric oven in the cabinet below it.

    I'm curious how that existing dryer is vented and whether it uses electric heat as opposed to gas. If it is an electric dryer, there will be a 30 Amp 240v or 208v circuit behind it. That could be be adapted to power either a glass cooktop or an electric oven but not both and is below spec for the 24" induction ranges I've seen.

    Can your budget stretch to include rewiring? If the space is in an urban apartment/condo building or coop, would electrical upgrades even be possible in the building?

    FWIW, there is an induction range, the "Copper Charlie," which plugs into a regular 120v outlet. It uses the 120v circuit to charge a bank of electric-car-type Li-Ion batteries that actually power the cooking surface and oven. Sounds interesting but it is new to market, priced at well over $6K, and is only available in the 30"wide size.

    Perhaps you want to consider a 24" gas range? That would give you room for a little more counter space to the right of the range after you take out the present washer and dryer stack. Shouldn't adversely affect this property's market value given how small the kitchen is. However, if rewiring is feasible and affordable, that opens up what you can choose and where you fit it into the available space.

    choufleur11 thanked jwvideo
  • 19 days ago

    @jwvideo thanks for your detailed comment!


    That is a good point; I am definitely open to rewiring. I am not sure if I have another 240 available on a dedicated circuit...I'll have to check again when the current tenant moves out, I can't recall the oven model. I might have 240V where the dryer is (I'm using 120V for the new W/D combo machine). The dryer is vented, I am switching to likely ventless or a combo. I've had LG combos in the past and they are not my favourite, but might be my only option for space. The current dryer vent ducts are poorly designed and are a fire hazard imo.


    I am planning to remove all the gas appliances in this place as our city is not supporting gas replacement/repair in the future, and the place is just a bit small for ideal air flow. I was thinking all induction or at least 1 induction element. Electrical upgrades are possible with strata approval, I am optimistic they would approve it as the city moves away from gas.


    After seeing a few other responses here I am looking at the gaggenau combi-microwave ovens over an convection oven + microwave, I have all gaggenau appliances at my current place in 24" width but not the combi.

  • 19 days ago

    "I am looking at the gaggenau combi-microwave ovens over an convection oven + microwave"

    What? You're going to stack multiple ovens in a 9'-8" space including a $5,500 Gaggenau Oven/Micro Combo...in a rental apartment?

    " I am planning to remove all the gas appliances in this place as our city is not supporting gas replacement/repair in the future"

    You'll be dead before gas is no longer available.

  • 19 days ago
    last modified: 19 days ago

    @wdccruise the city is no longer allowing new gas appliance installation or gas in new builds except in northern rural areas, and is offering rebates to homes switching to electric, it is focused on heating now but they are moving toward restricting other appliances. I own the apartment...it's not a rental, I'm living in it when the tenant moves out. I currently have gaggenau appliances in my other home now.

  • 19 days ago

    " You'll be dead before gas is no longer available. "

    What a weird thing to say.......Do you think she doesn't know the regulations in her city? There are more than a couple of states, and more than a few cities, that outlaw gas appliances in new builds and major renovations.

  • 19 days ago

    So the conclusion is "Never let anyone disconnect your gas hookup because the environment alarmists who control the politicians will never let you reconnect it."

    "You'll be dead before gas is no longer available. " -- What a weird thing to say

    Really? You think that millions of owners of gas appliances including space heaters and water heaters are going to be forced to trash them, upgrade their electrical circuits, and purchase new electric appliances? Tell me, where would the owner of an apartment with a closet forced-air furnace install a heat pump? How would the electrical grid support this additional demand?


    2021 Percentage of Households with Gas Appliances*

    • Furnaces: 45% (67% in midwest**)
    • Water Heaters: 47% (61% in midwest)
    • Ranges: 36% (49% in northeast)
    • Clothes Dryers: 19% (29% in west)

    -----

    *https://www.aga.org/research-policy/resource-library/gas-facts-appliance-and-housing-data/

    **https://www.aga.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Table10-2.pdf

  • 19 days ago

    @wdccruise neither of us responding are in the states! Australian & Canadian cities have approved these bans for years now. Gas is expensive here and electric is very cost-effective, my monthly hydroelectric is around $30 for a 925sqft LEED home.

  • 18 days ago

    All I can say is - if you don’t cook very much (like you say in the initial question) - I’d seriously consider no dishwasher or a dishwasher drawer. I’d also consider just a slim induction cooktop (2 burner) and a 24” combination oven/micro wall unit. A 24” workstation sink would be ideal. I love our 24” Liebherr refrigerators - they are true counter depth and in a kitchen your size would be perfect.

  • 18 days ago

    Well - after just briefly sketching the layout I am changing my suggestion. With your wall sizes I think you should consider 24” fridge, NO dishwasher, 24” side in range (and if you are wanting a true hood then NO microwave). Consider a baby dorm size micro in an upper cubby to the right of the refrigerator. This would leave you with a 15” cabinet/counter to the right of the range. This assumes a 24” workstation sink (like the Kohler Profile).

  • 18 days ago

    I agree with NO wall ovens. You need some counter space!

    I would try a layout with the fridge in the current W/D position, the 18" dishwasher, 24" sink in a 24" base cabinet, and a 24" range on the short wall of the L with a 24" OTR microwave.


  • 18 days ago

    adjusting to the 18 in dishwasher/ smaller range/ smaller fridge / microwave where it make sense wont be that difficult. you have both walls for upper cabinetry. and you can use the 3rd wall over to the left for storage that normally might go in base drawers....youll have counter but you might be lacking in drawers.


    dont forget that 3rd wall.


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  • 18 days ago
    last modified: 18 days ago

    "@wdccruise neither of us responding are in the states!"

    I don't know who "us" is other than you, but why didn't you state originally where you are located? This is primarily a US website and recommendations -- especially for products -- are going to be for US residents. You are still being cagey: "Australian & Canadian cities...", "Gas is expensive here and electric is very cost-effective..." Where is "here"? I guess it's Canada because Australia's voltage is 230. You wrote you had a "tenant"; I naturally assumed this was a rental. Jeez.

  • 18 days ago

    Here is a shot at it. To ‘do this right’ it would involve custom cabinets and higher end appliances to make this a ‘European style’ mini kitchen. With the inches you have to work with I don’t see how you can’t avoid building mini (maybe 4-6”) wing walls at each end to make the math work.

  • 18 days ago

    Australia has a stellar Miele induction cooktop option not available in the US/Canada. Full Surface induction. The offered models are limited with 800mm/31.5" the smallest. The UK site shows the 620/24.4" model. Miele - KM 7667 FL – Hobs Ikea has a less expensive standard configuration induction cooktop.

    Ikea has a frig option. An integrated unit 540mm/21.4" wide that fits in a cabinet with the door matching the other cabinets. SUPERKALL fridge/freezer, No Frost/white integrated, 180/68 l - IKEA If you want a solid wood cabinet door/drawer option Ikea has my favorite European Oak Vedhamn. METOD / MAXIMERA base cabinet with 3 drawers, white/Vedhamn oak, 60x60x80 cm - IKEA