Ryan,

Eastern Hemlock is one of the most shade tolerant conifers. It also is the worst for winter sun burn.

Too much sun was the reason I started planting the pines and spruce around the yard, it was devoid of shade 13 years ago when I bought the place. I had some shade on the east side, but it was from several, highly invasive Ulmus siberica (Siberian Elm). I had to cut them down.

The upside is that most trees are full sun, and I seem to have good growth here on what I plant.

Thanks Terry,

I'm always 'on the hunt' for z4 or below conifers.

Your yellow ribbon is excellent!

I never have quite acclimated myself to liking wild game. The last few deer I've harvested, I deboned and gave the meat to an older neighbor who can't hunt anymore. Made his day.

My winters have seemed to back off these last 6-7 years. I hope it holds.

"Very similar to blue spruce"

Don't believe that marketing scam. There are many misnomers out on that one.

In no way does P. meyeri have the silvery light blue color of P. pungens new growth. And the needles are NOT soft at all but stiff and prickly. And it doesn't have the horizontal branching like pungens.

But hey, I don't hug my spruce in the first place and enjoy different trees because they are different from each other. If you test a tree and don't buy it because it's a bit prickly, well then to each his own but I feel you're missing out.

The Picea omorika was a surprise. I stopped at a large tree seller, and they had pots of them for $35 ea. Generally, they sell huge, tree spade stuff. I'm hoping the snow doesn't crush it.

The Normann fir (species) I also found in the back discount rack at a nursery.

I lived in the deep woods for half my life, I'm finally feeling at home here. ;-)

Concolor still on the radar.

I placed the Nordmann fir at the east side of yard, where I had removed the red maple that wasn't performing (lower left).
9-21-2025:

eta: I see 5 trees I started from seed in the above picture. :^)

Bill, I'm with you on the wild game, deer can be touch and go, though I recall one young buck my father got that was hard to tell from beef, of course it's always so very lean. Another time, a respectful young gent had come knocking to request if he could bow hunt on our land. A few nights later he handed over some fresh kill he had marinated in beer, mom soon was cooking it up, but such potent odor filled the air that she grabbed that frying pan and gave the dog a good hot meal, lol. With that said, the commercially raised meats are nothing like what we had on the farm, the chickens mom raised, butchered and fried being ten times better eating than the electrocuted store bought stuff. Also, pork, heck sometimes those loins are near tasteless and other times so potent that the last one I've been cutting up to feed the fox that comes around!

Oh, this from google is what I was mostly referring to: Picea meyeri (Meyer spruce) is often compared to Picea pungens (Colorado blue spruce) due to their similar bluish-green appearance, but the Meyer spruce offers superior disease resistance and drought tolerance, especially in humid climates. ... but, good to know the needles are soft in comparison, cause yes, those will draw blood, lol, though does help when it comes to those pesky deer, I otherwise don't care if a tree isn't so up close user friendly ... but, dang, some of those junipers I really do despise for that reason and berberis as well, lol.

Not any much pretty going on in these photos, but just went out in the raw dreary cold and snapped a few shots. My yard is very large and with about 100 conifers planted about, still needs more, some though are hiding under the snow now.

Juniperus scopulorum 'Woodward' with 'Medora' in the background with daphne 'Carol Mackie' all heaped over with snow that it then retains its blooms to fill the air with potent fragrance for about six weeks.

Picea glauca 'North Pole' with about another 12 inches hidden under the snow. It sits right within my veggie garden all surrounded with perennials and a big strawberry patch, should be tons of strawberries in '26 with them all cozy snug under that blanket of snow! Gonna border this with a new patch of 'Red Mammoth' raspberries, a very cold hardy variety that fruits abundant and long!

oriental spruce atrovirens is browning on the southern side. Planted western part of yard. Anyone think it will recover in spring? I just burlaped it.

Burlap the skylands too even though its mostly in shade I do see a little browning

On another note my hillside creeper Scotch pine on standard is doing well.

Silver Whispers Swiss Stone Pine

Bill heres my little Myers spruce. They are definitely tough as nails

Hi Ryan.

Looks like your trees have a good start and look healthy.

Re: Winterburn: You'll just have to wait until next growing season to see what grows and what doesn't. Maybe look up pruning timing and methods for spruce.

But don't get in a big hurry to do any cutting.

This is what my p. abies looked like after the sun reflected sunburn, after it snowed in late October and the bright, all-day sun came out for a week.

11-14-2023: NNE side of the tree no less.

Some of those brown branchlets you see sent out new growth the next spring, some didn't.

The branches of spruce, as they grow, exhibit bifurcation.

So, after a while, the new branch spread will hide any inward dead areas.

After a couple of seasons, you won't hardly know anything happened.

This can vary depending on type of damage and location.

Here mine Fall of last season.

11-6-2025: It might be a little thin on that lower NNE side but that will take care of itself.

So let it grow a season or two before you decide if anything at all needs removal.

There're also techniques for candle pruning, to increase the fullness or shape of your tree.

Hey Bill, yours recovered nicely! Yeah I have had a few conifers get winter burn to various degrees and some recovered and some died. Your right patience is important to try to wait out the ugly phase of recovery. I new i was taking a risk planting it in early October but watered the living heck out of it right up until first frost. Will see what happens. You learn over time to except losses with conifers but when you get your check list ones in the ground you pray for success.

These Japanese white pine are tougher than people think. Mine might be odd shaped, impart to two leaders and because it had sustained some dog damage on lower branches that had to be pruned.

Regarding candling, I'll need to learn how to do that since I want to control the shape of my Louie white pine, at least until it outgrow my ability to maintain it

'I new i was taking a risk planting it in early October but watered the living heck out of it right up until first frost.'

The problem there is, newly planted shrub or tree doesn't have established roots and can't supply enough water for the tree's needs.

But that's not the only reason that a tree sunburns. Some plant sellers can have plants that are protected under a green house or canopy, and the trees won't be acclimated to direct sun. Those will needle burn when placed outside in direct sun and have to be acclimated a little at a time before they can take all day sun.

eta: Different trees will differ in this respect. YMMV.

I generally plant conifers in mid-August to September, that gives the plant time, so the roots settle in. Even then I'll will put a sunshade on the tree for the first winter.

I get most of my winter protection information from the link below.

https://extension.umn.edu/planting-and-growing-guides/protecting-trees-and-shrubs-winter

HTH

FWIW:

This was my P. meyeri that was planted 8-4-2021.

Picture from 11-20-2021.

It maybe didn't need protection, but...didn't have to start over either. ;-)

Heavy wood mulch layer to boot.

Thanks for the tips Bill. I was purchased at Lowes. It was outdoors but in a somewhat protected area. I couldn't help myself with the fall clearance sale as I'd been eyeing it all summer. Paying a cheaper price meant not optimal planting time for me. I do think most of that is sun scald, which if it doesn't get worse now that its burlaped, it may have a fighting chance at survival. All that can be done now is wait and see. I'll check out that link you included.

Generally I've had good luck planting pines in mid to late fall. Its my spruce that take a beating. I guess that makes sense as I've Generally found spruce to be more sensitive than pine, not as a hard rule but in my limited experience. Im going out to access my Norway spruce varieties that were planted later than ideal timing tomorrow. Norway seem to be about as hardy as spruce get but we'll see. I'll report my failures and successes here. I try my best not to make the same mistakes twice however sometimes I need a third go for the lesson to set in well 😅

I think that should be my biggest lesson. If in the ground for first one or two seasons just provide winter protection. It takes minimal effort put prevents set backs

'I couldn't help myself with the fall clearance sale'

ha-ha! welcome to the dark side. ;-)

edit: I wish I had a Lowes closer to my area.

Pinus mugo: I think this is my only Lowes (75 mi.) purchase.

It too was a late season purchase while in St. Cloud for other business.

Price was too good to pass on. ;-)

I think it's the full-sized variety (20ft?), it put on a good foot of growth this year (second full season in the ground).
Planted 7-31-23:
Picture 11-6-25:

Yes, the darkside is calling lol. Although technically garden centers are the best value for longterm success followed by non clearance box store purchases. They cost more but have warranties from 1 year to 2 years. I did find Gartens has extended 5 year Warrenty if you buy the fancy root stimulator powder.

Actually the online conifer kingdom ones have worst warranties but most varieties.

Mugo can get big, people don't always realize that. Theres alot of varieties.

I always go all over the area to check on things.

Garden centers, plant nurseries, trees sellers. I'll spend a day or two traveling sometimes 60-70 miles.

But the two P. mugo 'pumilio' I bought from a Big Box store last season, one did good and the other had a circling root problem so bad, that when I tried to correct it by trimming some roots, I removed so many that it fell off the root ball. ;-)

So, one for the price of two that time.

I generally check the high-end nurseries first. Generally bigger plants that have been up potted to avoid root problems. Healthier plants overall too.

Yup, many different varieties with various mature heights. I wanted the big one (species?) for that spot because it's all part of my 'Wind buffering' project that's been going on here for several years.

I never thought I'd plant so many trees & shrubs just for that purpose, but it's been a winning battle and I'm finally getting some shade around here too.

Root stimulator?

Ha, don't fall for that one. If your soil has the right nutrients or if you supply them with fertilizer, new plants don't do any better with a 'stimulator' than otherwise. Just another way to get more money out of you. And if healthy plants get by the first year, they generally will be fine after that.

When we rooted woody plants from cuttings, we did it in a sterile, soilless potting media, until roots have developed well enough, so we could 'pot them up' and only then do they get a very mild amount of balanced fertilizer at given intervals.

Picture below are some Hicksii yew cuttings I rooted in a sterile, high humidity environment.

In the picture, I just pulled them from the sterile, rooting pots so I could put them in regular nursery pots. ;-)

Plants want to grow, it's when we do things to inhibit them, things go haywire.

PS. I'm done with CK, they tailor many of their plants to grow on the West coast.

Nice plants overall but in a colder zone, you may run into trouble with certain plants.

Hey Bill, I like you get into the science of it all. I have tried and failed at rooting cuttings numerous times. At the end of the day Im just not sure i have the patience. Especially since any cuttings that I'd likely want would take an eternity to get big enough for me to truly appreciate. I have a hard enough time being patient with the one and 2 gallon potted plants I get but sometimes that's the only way to find more interesting plants on somewhat of a budget. If i can find or justify the expense ill go right for the 6 - 20 gallon plants. Reluctantly anything over 10 - 15 as the 20 gallon are sure alot to haul around without proper equipment and unfortunately I can't justify buying equipment to move a tree and or hiring someone to move it. I've moved exactly 3 20 gallon trees since I got into the hobby and have a unique story for each one. You learn to get creative so you don't break your back.

I can appreciate your efforts on your windbreaker. Its come together nicely and that's a very rewarding feeling. Plus its not just a row of arbovitae so theres that, although those serve a purpose and I have one myself but variety is the spice of life both for visual appeal and disease resistance.

Oh, and 70 Mile drives to locate the perfect plants is alot but I've done it a time or two. Sometimes the journey is half the fun as the end result.

Ty for the heads up on conifer kingdom. I wasn’t aware of that fact. It all probably depends on the root stock. Perhaps there are some varieties that may not be affected as much as the Norway spruce varieties but I don't know for sure

I try to combine trips.

I use an old two-wheel cart I got from my dad, years ago that I use for everything.

DW had to help me pull the big hydrangea transplant on a tarp from the front yard to the back, but it went well. lol

I'm done with rooting and seeds too.

Nowadays, the bigger the better. :^)

“…Japanese white pine are tougher than people think.”

I second that and would also include Japanese Red Pine & Korean Fir as exotic conifer species to try in the upper midwest. These three are usually listed as z5, but they have been through some mighty cold winters in my garden with no worse for wear.

maackia, if the big garden centers sell them, they should be hardy enough for the climate. Having said that there's micro climates even within short distance from one another. We used to have a redbud tree that would bloom about 3 weeks after one about 6 blocks away from us. Although I do agree everything you mentioned to be hardy enough for z4. On a non confier side note check out this honeysuckle vine growing in January at my house. Must be a sweet spot with just enough warmth and close to the house for perfect conditions but still thought it was nuts!

Norway spruce Cupressina. Doing well. No deer or rabbit damage. No protection. No wind burn. Planted street side in early October of 2025. I am noticing that many of the Norway spruce cultivars seem to be extremely hardy, adaptable and resistant to typical issues even when Planted later in the year. I have a weeping Norway spruce Planted roughly 6 years ago in late fall that has done phenomenally. Also a 1 gallon Norway spruce Aarburg planted later September 2025 with chicken wire cage no burlap also doing well.

I don't know Ryan.

Did you get a good closeup look at the branch tips?

Generally, when you see bunny tracks and poop near the plant, it's a sign the rabbits have been investigating, looking for food.

There's a recent thread going on right now with many frustrated gardeners talking about their losses just lately. https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6531333/dem-rabbits-are-maraudin#29724571

I checked my P. Abies 'species' a week ago and found evidence of rabbits chewing some of the lower branches. Not a big deal but I didn't want things to progress, to them chewing on the trunk bark, bad juju.

The sharp, clean angle of the 'cuts' spells Rabbit.

I put some garden stakes closely together, for now to make it difficult to them getting into the trunk but may add more restrictions later on.

I think the heavy snow in some parts of the country has limited the natural food supply, so then they start looking for alternatives. End of winter can be the worst.

Here's my unprotected J. Communis from a couple of different angles.

Wouldn't you think the rabbits would eat the tender branch tips first?

Bark completely stripped right down to the bare wood.

I'm so glad nothing has chewed on your new additions, Ryan, but as winter progresses, I'm sorry to say, bad things can still happen.

I completely understand. I've lost thousands of dollars in trees due to critter damage over the years. I have caged and burlap anything I cannot easily replace minus a row of arbovitae I probably should of but they are old thick trunked trees that so far have held up to rabbit damage fairly well. I guess I meant im a bit surprised there was no wind or frost damage on the tree being it was planted so late and have noticed this before with other Norway spruce varieties.

I suspect we'll all find some rabbit or deer damage with the cold snowy winter. Hopefully less on ones we have protected well.

To me 'Thousands of dollars' of losses over the years is a lot of potatoes.

Is there something you don't like about protecting new plantings?

Or you're just abnormally wealthy and don't worry about it?

:^)

Definitely not abnormally or even normally wealthy. Just a bit lslow on the learning curve and perhaps ive been a little lazy in the past due to buying from garden centers with 1 - 2 year warranties. However even if its a free replacement it sets me back a season, so im trying to be more active in not allowing set backs now.

Just need to be more proactive vs reactive on my planning

No more throwing away "potatoes"

haha!

Thanks, I understand now.

Your plants are looking good, and hopefully we're past the really cold, deep freeze type temperatures that we had earlier.

It's too early for me to post up on any of my more 'sensitive' plantings. They're completely covered with snow and have sunshades still in place. It'll be another month before I can tell anything.

edit:

Picea Omorika: yesterday. ;-)

Thanks Bill, I know were all Eaga for spring so we can make accessments and get back to planting. Won't be too much longer now, a few months.

First thing I'll do in the spring is move the J. communis to another location.

It's getting too immense and the reason I put it there in the first place no longer exists.

Circa 2016, started it as a wood dug species in the spring (possibly 2015). My new yard was in the infant stages of tree planting (The yard was completely void of trees and most everything else after a E4 tornado hit that area in 2010) before I bought the place, 2012.

Today, it's beginning to block the pathway on the east side of the shed with other problems. Time to go someplace else with it, fondly called 'Garden Edit' around here. ;^)

Disclaimer:

No AI was involved in the above pictures and no plants or animals were injured. :-)

Bill, wow, its certainly filled that space over time. I have not needed to relocate anything as of now but if something were blocking a pathway that would be as good of a reason as any to move something to a more appropriate place. I wonder how big of rootball it now has! Haha, tbh your whole yard could be ai generated and I might not know the difference, but I believe you!

Thanks Ryan!

I look at it like this, I might as well chop off any branches that have missing bark, bc that will reduce the crown size, helping me work around it and will reduce the weight some.

Next, I'll do the same as I've done with all my woods dig specimens in the wild. I'll cut as much of the roots as appears to be needed for the plant to survive.

And, with this one, it will be much easier moving it across the yard then what I did with other plantings by hauling them out of the woods, hauling them to town, then planting them here (probably done that ~15 times in the past).

The biggest tree I ever moved here was an 8 or 9 ft. tall white spruce (Picea glauca).

It was growing in an area than was to be logged off, that usually means the smaller trees get trampled by the big machinery. So, needing several more trees for the yard, guess who went out there and dragged this one home?

First week of April I had it in the ground.

Here it is today (last fall).

And if the bunnies hadn't bit off the lower branches, that next winter, after it was planted (deep snow), it might have looked better in that way.

And this is the first summer that the robins and the grackles haven't broken off the main leader, twice sometimes, during springtime, when they're soft and flexible, it might've been several feet taller too.

But oh well, it's fine because it's not a specimen and located in row with other pines and spruce, that all form a type of windbreak/sunshade, in the west and southwest parts of the yard (back, left center in picture).

So, it's quite far back from the house, not like the many others I have scattered about. ;-)

That wispy looking spruce filled out that much! Wow! With a little patience and time im starting to have hopes that my hillside upright Norway spruce may eventually look okay. I had it planned near my front door and it became a rabbit buffet. I moved it after one season to in front of my backyard gate and it has done better there with a plastic tree guard now that the lowest branches are gone.

I found mine growing in mostly shade, that's why it was so thin. But when it got out into full, all-day sun, it grew like crazy.

The rabbits wouldn't have been so bad, but as the snow depth increased, multiple times that first season, it acted like an elevator platform for the rabbits and they just kept eating higher and higher, probably >3 feet of the lower trunk were exposed that winter.

Then as the trees around it grew, the lower part of the tree never got enough sun to excel.

Once you get yours protected, in a sunny spot, it will grow normally after a couple years and with spruce, the outer branches generally grow outward and downward, hiding a lot of the lower trunk.

That's promising Bill. I didn't know conifers could rebound shape so quickly if you change site conditions.

Maybe theres a slim chance of my larger of my 2 oriental spruce that got winter burn earlier this winter. One side got hit harder and I burlaped it but damage has been done. Needless dried and falling off with quick check today with the warmer temps. Still some green underneath but we'll see if I can handle the ugly grow out phase. In all honesty I'll probably replace it in the spring and banish the now ugly duckly to a corner of my yard out of sight and pray for the best. Skylands doing well. Big Louie and Little Louie white pines are doing well. Also claimed back more future real-estate by having my dead ash tree removed today. Stump to be ground out in spring.

Ash and no ash.

Everything in the front will get more sun now that's for sure

Ryan

I have no experience with Picea orientalis but in general, spruce don't take well to winter burn.

If the dormant buds weren't damaged, it may sprout new growth from them, next spring, or then again, they may not and you'll lose them. This all depends on just how badly the plants are damaged.

If more than a little damage is done, trees, even if they survive, can take a long time to look good again, if they ever do, so if they look bad (10-15% burnt?), just replace them next spring and save yourself a few years of nursing a plant to recovery. imho.

YMMV.

Hey Bill, yes I'm already excepting its fate. Fortunately it was discount bin bargain end of year sale last year but I think ill try to pay full price if I can find the same cultivar this spring. That way its in the ground a full season before winter. Than burlap at first frost.

@Ryan -- alot of big ole' silver maples in your neighborhood.

bengz6westmd, yes im not a huge fan of silver maples as they are very weak wooded trees. If you need quick privacy they will do the job though I would never plant one myself. I would maybe consider a hybrid such as autumn blaze. Lots of cottonwoods around here too.

Do you guys water your conifers on these warmer winter days? I have as i believe when cold returns they get dehydrated. Just curious what others do.

Generally, for 'in the ground' trees, the answer to that is no.

If it's a long Fall and the ground isn't frozen, along with sun and no rain, I'll treat it like any other time during the season and 'water when the plants need water' (the hard fast rule).

Right now, we have some snow with warmer temperatures and not much frost in the ground, so whatever snow melts, will keep the plants happy.

By spring, it has to get pretty dry before I'll water because that's the time when roots are seeking moisture and nutrients and too wet is never a good idea.

You don't want to keep the soil too wet bc that can keep the roots from getting enough oxygen to grow properly and that can also open the door for root rot.

>>>>>>>>

Now potted trees are a different animal.

First thing I'll mention is that potted trees should not be kept outside, in cold climate temperatures.

The reason is that the roots are not as hardy as the top portion of the tree and below freezing temperatures outside, often can cause root damage, which can set it back sometimes severely, even to the point of failure.

With that said,

yes, you need to keep your pots from getting too dry during the off season.

I check mine occasionally and put snow or ice on top, inside the pot as they need it. If you're keeping your potted plants in the 30's to low 40's, in an unheated garage or shed, they'll get enough moisture from that melting to keep them happy.