I’ve never tried the Nootka thing, but I’m reconsidering. Bill, two more years at your trial grounds and I’m in.

lol:

Hey, first, mine would've had more of a chance, IF I knew then what I know now.

I learned mine is a west coast version (CK) that uses rootstock of P. orientalis.

There is an eastern version that uses Thuja occidentalis for rootstock which allegedly increases the hardiness. I believe Wilson bros. carries those.

'Just kidding, but I am surprised it is doing so well for you.'

For anyone is interested and I'll try not to hijack this thread and keep it short. ;-)

After reading a thread (linked below) I think I found the reason the C. nootka has done so well.

The rootstock is said to be z5 or 6 and the top (scion) of the tree zone 4.

According to the link below, the root stock doesn't make the scion less (or more in those cases) hardy.

So, the demise of this tree would have to be *IF* the ground temperatures ever go down to or below the -10-0d range of zone 6 low temperatures. And it kills the roots.

So most likely, if we stay in our new z4a zone designation and don't have an extended periods of minus 20's and 30's with snowless winters, the ground may never see temperatures of less than 10-20df (If I mulch properly and get snow during the worst of our cold winter temperatures).

Source:

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/1823503/question-about-rootstock-hardiness-and-tolerances#n=14

My nootka ’Green Arrow’ is about 25 feet tall.

Abies concolor ’Compacta’ with the arb ’Malonyana Aurea’ behind.

tj

Tj, you must have one of the more mature gardens on GW. When did you start planting?

I started in the backyard in the late 80s. I didn’t venture out front where these two pix are from until 2001.

tj

Absolutely gorgeous!

Louie pine

Atrovirens oriental spruce

Japanese umbrella pine (wintergreen)

Ryan Tepley, where in the world are you? If your Umbrella Pine is in it for the long haul, then you must be one or two zones warmer than me. I’ve got Louie White Pine and wondering if yours turns a nice gold in winter? Mine looks nothing like the beauty I saw at the Oregon Garden. It has been underwhelming, but hope springs eternal

Im in zone 5, in the twin cities area of MN. My japanese umbrella pine was planted in August of this year. This is my 2nd attempt but with a different cultivar. Wintergreen is not supposed to bronze in the winter. I tried joe kozey before but had it sighted horribly. My new one is in a pretty sheltered/protected area, so we will see if that helps. I also can't say as of yet if my louie turns a nice gold yet in the winter as I only planted it several weeks ago. I got it as a 20 gal from my local nursery. I had ordered a 1 gal louie right before I saw it and so now I have 2. I'm hoping it does well for winter with such a late season planting however I did have luck planting an aoi japanese white pine late season about 4 years ago and its doing great so fingers crossed 🤞

Here's my mini louie in another location

Here's my aoi japanese white pine

We’re probably within a hundred miles of each other, so I’d be interested in how your Umbrella pine does over the next few years. It sounds like you’ve caught the collection bug. 😊

Indeed I have definitely caught the collection bug. Im about to go pick up either a cupressina norway spruce or a mountain mugo pine as I need to fill a spot near the roadway and need something that can tolerate road salt. The cupressina is my top choice although moderately tolerant and the mugo should be relatively bullet proof so I will come down to the look of individual specimens. I will definitely do an update in the spring/summer on my umbrella pine. Hoping it has long term success as its personally my favorite conifer aside from ginkgo and dawn redwood. Speaking of which I might have to try dawn redwood again. Had one failed attempt there as well but it was sighted in a windy location.

Went with the cupressina norway spruce 🙂

Cryptomeria japonica Chapel View – these 2 replaced 2 Ilex 'Blue Maid' which I had trouble growing. These went into the ground on the same day (2021) and looked the same when planted – 1 on either side of the front door – basically the same environment. The taller one bent considerably last winter under snow load and was still bent come spring. I don’t know the original grower/nursery – I got them from my local nursery (now gone) after being recommended by the owner. Birds like to nest.

3836 / 3838

The only worthy crypto is Cryptomeria. Up until the last few years, it was not on my radar. I have seen several in arboreta and it has won me over.Yours look great. How big do you expect them to get?

Maackia – thanks – regarding height, I just found the original local nursery tag which says 7-10’ tall / 4-6’ wide and restrained raindrop-shaped. I also found an interesting write-up from Duke Gardens regarding the origin of Chapel View. An excerpt says ‘Although not a true dwarf cultivar, over time this slow-growing cedar develops a roughly globose (round) shape capped by a pyramidal tuft, with the exact shape determined by the soil conditions and overall amounts of sunlight.’ I guess time will tell!

https://gardens.duke.edu/garden-talk/chapel-view-japanese-cedar/

Picea glauca 'Weeping White Spruce'.

Just started this little guy last season but he has big aspirations.

Yours Looks amazing!! Mines been in the ground about 4 seasons so far and has had maybe an inch of growth each year. Think it gets hammered with sun on the eastern side in the winter as it takes on a brownish tinge on that side of the tree only. The needles aren't dry and otherwise seems healthy. New green growth each season aswell. Probably the slowest growing conifer i have though.

Picea glauca ’Pendula’ is vigorous when basic needs are met. It’s just a great conifer. Bill, yours definitely looks like its basic needs are being met!

Thanks, Ryan!

Making a grassless area, a foot or two out, around your spruce, will make a big difference in how it performs. The wood mulch covering on mine retains soil moisture and keeps the roots cool in the hot sun.

(Grass is a fierce competitor for moisture and nutrients and all-day sun on bare ground can cause impaired growth).

I've never had a white spruce sunburn or winter burn, and I've started plenty of them that grew in full, all-day sun with hot dry summers and open winters with multiple cold nights of down to -46 below.

My 'pendula' does get afternoon shade starting around 2:30 pm, planted ~3ft. from the shed (I didn't have an all-day sunny location to plant it, otherwise I would've).

/////////

maackia & tj, yes, I treat all my young, in the ground, conifers the same as I do my newly seed started specimens in pots.

The first couple of seasons, I use a very 'mild' (1/4 tsp per quart of water) mix of soluble fertilizer with same touch of magnesium sulphate, about once a week, early in the season until around mid-summer.

Once the trees get established, I quit that and broadcast a modest amount of 10-10-10 around the trees, only in early spring as soon as the ground thaws.

I've learned from soil tests and talks with our local nursery people that our soil is not only droughty but very low or lacking on most major nutrients. Many or most soluble fertilizers in the US don't contain magnesium, though there may be some out there.

Picea glauca (species) from July '25 with over 2-1/2 ft. of new growth this season (most of my half dozen or so WS in the yard produced ~2 ft. of new growth this year).

BillMN-z4a

Thanks for the advice. I'm a forever student of life, and continuously learning. Usually by trial and error. Some of my conifers have mulch beds and some don't. I usually start them in mulch beds and after a year or so grass fills in the area and I don't always interfere, although I probably should.

A northpole white spruce i have planted on the southwest corner of my house

Also figured I'd share skylands oriental spruce.

Ryan,

Happy to help.

I think the first few years are the most important too.

But until a plant is fully established it really does need some help, but even that can depend on soil type and annual rainfall. My climate is on the dry side.

My pet peeve is, I really got tired of watering a tree, then seeing the grass grow in an exponentially high rate, when the rest of the lawn didn't need to be mowed for another week. Wood mulch eliminates that problem.

<rant off>

There are some of my older trees that I haven't kept up on the mulch rings.

Spruce, have a tendency to grow spreading branches, close to the ground so they don't get mulch rings after they start to mature and produce shade on their own (4-5 years?).

Pines are generally drought tolerant after they're established and large enough to provide shade for themselves and also, they self-mulch (My 15 ft. high pine grove has several inches of pine needles built up under them with grass absent).

I could go on and on but the more moisture loving a plant is, the more likely I will have wood mulch around it.

But if you want optimal growth each season, protecting the ground from the sun and mitigating summer dry spells with supplementary irrigation, and (if needed by soil test) providing any nutrients your plants are lacking, is key, at least for the first several seasons.

Thanks again Bill! I see it apears you're also in MN, but perhaps a zone colder than me. I have a weeping blue spruce that shades out most of the turf directly beneath it. Its nice looking too yet i managed to forget to take a picture of it. I'll share when I do. I do need to make a gigantic mulch bed in that area next year as its too densely planted and getting prohibitive to mow. I know how well pines self mulch. My parents house has a white pine i grew up climbing that has a trunk girth of about 3.5 feet at least. That thing is must be a centry or more old, and oh boy does in shed needles.

On another note, im curious if you or anyone else in Minnesota or zone 4/5 has had any luck with dawn redwoods? I'm considering adding gold rush after I have a large birch tree removed next year.

A quick search in Conifers brought up this:

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/metasequoia-glyptostroboides-in-z4

I tried a Dawn redwood about 7 - 8 years ago but my yard was almost empty then and no fence for wind protection. It was dead after the first winter. I'd like to try again and trying a golden colored cultivar seems fun. I had 2 bald cypress for a few years aswell and they always made it through the winter but leaf out late in a spot I wanted more early growth in so I potted them and they died the next year. Something about deciduous conifers that fascinates me. Especially the old world ones. 🙂

Deciduous conifer?

Larix Laricina: From seed, germinated February 2020. 16 ft. tall.

A pure stand of L. laricina in full autumn splendor is a sight to behold. However, I think the fall color of Pseudolarix is better than the true larches. There’s your old world deciduous conifer. :)

Absolutely amazing! Thank you for sharing! i tried weeping larch a few years ago and have no question it would have thrived except my dogs decided to make a chew toy out of it. with the weaker wood it didn't stand a chance. if i try again ill put it in the front yard where the dogs aren't allowed.

maackia, how is you new metasequoia doing?

Ryan,

With all the things that can damage or kill newly planted plants here, everything new gets a couple of garden stakes and a length of chicken wire.

Picea 'Densata' planted May of this year.

Picture from June.

Deer decimated it and I removed it. If I try it again, which is doubtful, it would be a bit larger.

I've already taken that one off my list.

Even if it could survive the winters here, I've read they bud early, and a late frost can be hard on them.

Not to mention the water requirements for that one and bald cypress don't match my deep sandy soil and seasonal dry spells.

Not that I don't have 'water loving' plants, but when it gets really dry, watering just isn't the same as a good soaking rain, especially once the trees get bigger.

I hear that! I also have a love for rare varieties of deciduous trees as well. Successfully killed a regular katsura tree along with a weeping Morioka Katsura Tree. Love katsuras, but they are so very thirsty, especially when getting established, im not sure if have the patience unless its right outside my door and even then it could be hit or miss. Maybe one day I'll try again. Aside from my artic jade and northern glow japanese hybrid maples I absolutely love my paperbark maple. Slow as snails to grow but quiet a beauty. Luckily I bought a rather large specimen from Monrovia so I can enjoy it in this lifetime. Regarding caging young plants. I will be doing that this winter as thats when I seem to have the most rabbit and or deer damage. Believe me, I've lost thousands of dollars worth of expensive trees to critters. You live and you learn!

Plan on trying cold hardy banana and some bamboo next year as well. I know bamboo can be invasive and have already thought about how to contain it.

Nice that you have that z5 edge, Ryan.

It gives you more opportunity to try things that I wouldn't consider.

During winter, animals will eat things that they won't touch during the warmer weather.

Food gets scarce and the animals will venture into new areas/yards, to attain enough food to stay warm. Mid to late winter is the worse time for deer/rabbit damage.

I learned something the hard way two winters ago, when my Picea abies got sunburned after a late October snow. The ground wasn't frozen but apparently the reflected sun in combination with regular sunlight is something those trees are vulnerable to, when still small.

So last winter my P. abies looked like this: (~36" tall).

I shouldn't have to do that again this year, but we'll see because I was advised they do better after they're about 6-7 feet tall.

36" new growth this summer.

P. abies: 9-30-25

Bill, is that a princeton gold maple i see in the background near your house?

nope, Syringa Reticulata 'Ivory silk' (Japanese tree lilac).

nootka 'Pendula'

and Pinus strobus 'Shaggy Dog'

Ron

Bill, I've always liked how full japanese lilac look. The gold must be fall colors. Beautiful!

Plantkiller, love your nootka Pendula! I bought a small one recently but at this point im thinking keeping it in the pot may be best until next spring. Im also having a little trouble scouting out the perfect site for it as my property isn't huge so I consider taking that into account when planting.

Pinus strobus ‘Blue Shag’

Picea mariana ‘Ericoides’ – Blue Nest Spruce - this plant has a similar story to my Cryptomeria japonica Chapel View mentioned above. It replaced (2021) Cephalotaxus harringtonia ‘Duke Gardens’ which would not grow well in this location – it was the second ‘Duke Gardens’ I lost in this spot. This is a tough plant – it’s not in a sheltered location.

Nice blue shag Raymond! I've been considering adding one of the dwarf eastern white pine cultivars tucked back behind an Apollo maple at the end of my driveway.

Larix decidua ’Pendula’ wearing its soon to be shedded fall coat.

Gorgeous