Well, if one is in Australia…

tj

Here, 'winter', as defined by snow cover, tends to start near the beginning of the year. November and December are dreary, gray, but not particularly cold. January and February are cold, but often sunny. In March, things start to warm up, with noticable spring near the end of the month.

I am such a fair weather gardener! Winter starts officially in my world when it is too chilly, damp and gray for me to want to spend any time in the garden. This year, that started at the end of October and will continue to around the beginning of March.

Here in Oz, it's generally accepted that new seasons begin on the 1st of the month, more from being easy to remember, I suspect. Personally, I adhere to the solstice/equinox dates, but I'm swimming against the tide...

Our first nations people, who have lived on this continent, in touch with nature for more than 60,000 years, count 6 seasons annually, and I think they have a point.

THE 6 SEASONS

I have only 2 seasons: gardening/outdoor season (about 7 months) and indoor hobby season (about 5 months)

Worst time of the year

tj,

oh sorry, I didn't realize that you had moved! ;-)

My more septentrional location makes me one of the colder regions. Mid November, it's not unusual to have freezing temps every night and our snow cover is not always a given but surely appreciated, it keeps the ground temperatures from deep freezing.

MG,

Here too, the snow puts an end to what goes on with outside activities in the yard.

I'm generally done with yardwork once the colder weather arrives in late October, early Nov.

GG,

I always try to have everything else that takes any amount of work 'Winterized' by early October. But this year had some recent snow shoveling to do around some of my plants which is good for a little exercise during wintertime.

Shaxhome,

that's so interesting, having 6 different seasons.

If we had two-month long seasons here, some of our seasons would be hard to differentiate from one another. Dec, Jan & February are sometimes similar.

Also, you're just coming into your springtime with summer ahead. A winter trip from here to your area would be enjoyable :-)

OC,

Wintertime is a good time to have other things to do. Generally, the months of January, February and March are the time I do projects and even some of them are 'Garden Related'.

LClark

C'mon man. haha!

Do you have snow there yet? I hear you live where snowmobiling and other snow related activities are on the menu!

I agree w/L Clark's feelings. Outside activity for my old bones becomes severely limited to essentials, but I did get netting done on all my small evergreens to thwart the deer.

Snowcover creeping steadily southward in NA.

Siberia pretty much covered already. Snowcover reflects much of of what little sun there is, so snowcover and cold begets more of it, tho snowcover does protect the ground underneath to some extent

I do ski and snowmobile, but there is barely any snow yet. snowmobiling doesn’t get good until late january usually. I started ”snowbiking”, which is a track on the back of a motorcycle. Super fun

Just cold and windy for the time being. yay.

Here it is still quite autumnal feeling. Grass and annual weeds still growing. Quite a lot of coloured leaves still on some on trees. Not too cold. Just a couple of light frosts overnight. Our most wintry weather is usually after Christmas in January and February. Even then snow is rare and brief. Last year we had one day of it. But by that time the snowdrops will have started so the seasons merge into each other. Spotted some hellebores starting to bud this morning.

All my ATV's have been sold or given to grandchildren, just too hard on me to do that kind of thing anymore. Let's just say I'm adapting well to a more 'Laid Back' way of life. ;-)

I'm also no fan of harsh winters and do have my slow times on occasion. But if the roads stay dry, I never mind the winter season. I hate having to get out for an appointment during a snowstorm or icy conditions, especially in the long dark nights of winter.

Since I retired, near ten years ago now, I don't have to get out every day anymore so that helps.

I wouldn't care if we didn't get snow, if it wasn't for temperatures down to -35df at times. That kind of cold is what does damage during winters that are open and can even kill the lawn grass if exposed to multiple arrivals of the 'Yukon Express' as it's called 'Up North'.

Floral you have it 'Made in the Shade' as we used to say. :-) Although we do have some plants that stay green under the snow when spring arrives, if they haven't gotten frozen earlier in the late Fall season.

I'm on the meterological winter schedule. November and March are "transitional," which is how I mentally trick myself into shortening winter....or lengthening fall & spring. Hey, you do what you gotta do. As someone who doesn't ski, ice fish, snow mobile, or any of the other common activities, winter is far and away my least favorite season. Maybe curling is the answer....

"Worst time of the year"

I used to think that, but I'm glad to get some time away from my responsibilities to the garden, especially after two droughty years. Last summer was worse, watering was taking hours a week and it was starting to feel way too much like a job.

Dave, that's an incredibly interesting chart! I would love a couple [world] charts of wettest and driest months of the years. It would be interesting, for example, to see what I suspect you'd see in western and southern Europe, which is the wettest month shifting from November (London, Dublin & Lisbon) to December (Athens) to January (Tel Aviv) as you go east...and the same as you go south, Gibraltar & Tripoli peaking in December, Alexandria in January, etc.

Till now this year, we have had 2 times of 29F as the lowest. There is a feeling of beginning of winter but really the coldest days normally come at late January or February.

maackia, curling is one of the few Winter Olympic sports that I like watching. The team strategizing is rather fascinating.

I wish our cloudiest month was March. :-(

Big polar vortex dropping down to Great Lakes area in around a week.

Yup.

Might be a good old-fashioned winter this season (at least for the upper Midwest) according to NOAA.

I'm 'cross replying' to maackia here, because I think he was doing the same to forever_a_newbie when he said "Forever_a_newbie, are you in z8 Virginia? I would not have guessed any part of VA to be quite that mild. Is that a species Vaccinium or a hybrid? Impressive!" on the fall color thread.

Probably replying to "Till now this year, we have had 2 times of 29F as the lowest." Not to brag exactly, but assume FAN (sorry, it's a lot to type - I'm fine w/people calling me UBG!) lives in the greater Virginia Beach area. Thats *200 miles as the crow flies* south of me and yet, it's not too dissimilar from things here _so far_. I haven't been much colder. Tender plants only went fully dead about a week ago. How could I *possibly* be doing almost as well? I can tell you why...it's elevation! (in addition to the obvious proximity of unfrozen water!)

Like most people here I don't want to reveal my exact location, but I've said various posts in the past that I live on a slope, a least 100 feet up, within 1 mile of the water. I knew enough when I bought this property to _avoid being in a flat or worse, depression shaped area_. There was a UK nursery website that had a great explainer on this topic in the early 2000s, I think it was architectural plants. When I was driving around SE VA on Thanksgiving, I actually noticed that, away from the water, there were already signs of frost...for example. Also for example (link). * The 'problem' with almost all of SE VA is there's little chance for cold air drainage because it is so flat. OTOH, when I have a radiative/'still night' freeze, the cold air can drain away from my location. Look at this station:

https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDNORTH63/graph/2025-12-31/2025-12-31/monthly

They've already been to 26F. It's a low elevation, so being close to the water didn't matter. Compared with this one: in the "upper bay" region yet doing even _better_ than FAN's self reported temps. They will probably go below 30F tonight, but haven't so far as of this very moment.

Why? They have absolutely everything going for them you can: that neighborhood is on steep hillsides or cliffs almost 100 ft above the water. He or she is in the middle of the point, so probably the highest available elevation, actually. They have water nearby, but also water to the due north and west of them, which are the directions cold air comes in from during advective freezes. (I don't live in that neighborhood btw. I shopped for houses there but it was a little too isolated, and though I'd love to have bought right on the water, even up here, those properties are at least 50% more than non-waterfront ones. Although it's nothing like the crazy wealth in coastal Anne Arundel County, the family who I suspect of being the absolute wealthiest in Cecil County** live somewhere along the water on the Elk Neck Peninsula. )

FAN...I think you said roughly where you were before, but, sorry, I forget! Are you on the Norfolk/VA Beach side, or the Virginia Peninsula side? Anyhow...happy gardening in your mild climate. I'm NOT saying there aren't other huge differences that 200 miles makes!!! I'm going to have an upcoming trip report about how pindo palms seem to be taking over Virginia Beach! They are self-seeding like crazy! I wouldn't get one to survive up here if my life depended on it!

My relatives down there are on the 'North End' not far south from Cape Henry. East of Atlantic Avenue so a 30 second walk to the ocean. Although there are no hills of course, they are otherwise in the best part of SE VA to avoid early freezes - again because of so much water due north of them - and I can remember many visits in December when there were Pelargoniums still blooming in pots in their deck!

Again to stress how much microclimate can make a difference, I found a station in Camden *NEW JERSEY* that barely went below freezing in November.

https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KNJBELLM14/graph/2025-11-30/2025-11-30/monthly

Because they have the river *and* the nuclear reactor level urban heat island of Philly to the north of them!

* - and minor clarification; interior VA Beach freeze wasn't until after T'giving, but still noteworthy that there are stations reporting temps lower than FAN's. So I would guess FAN is in a more sheltered locale. It was in my old neighborhoods in Williamsburg, VA that I saw killed tender vegetation indicating freezes earlier in November. I hadn't been there for over 10 years. Update on campus trees...eventually...!

** - now that Dallas Green no longer lives here. When I moved here 20 years ago, I heard he and his wife were active in the American Rhododendron Society, but I lacked the social climbing instincts to investigate that at the time 🤣. They lived in a much colder part of the county near the PA state line.

I've started looking for "how far north can you go on the east coast w/o temps below 30F".

Here's one!

https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KNYMONTA41/graph/2025-11-30/2025-11-30/monthly

But again, this is but one aspect of climate. Certainly no pindo palms in Montauk, either!

David/UBG, Thomas Jefferson built his Blue Ridge mountain estate (Monticello) on a spot that was a perfect place to avoid early frost and use the adjacent slopes around it to grow more southern-based plants that lower areas couldn't grow, like figs on a high, steep south-facing slope w/air drainage. He understood these things perfectly and kept accurate weather records w/comments.

BTW, my mountain lot at 2700' near Blackburg, VA had a very long frost-free period compared to nearby lower areas -- not unusual to get first frosts in early Nov.

Here's a report that will make most everyone feel like they're 'relatively' living in the subtropics.

A few days ago, we noticed very cold air was extending down from Canada into Montana, but it didn't travel too far and receded after a couple of nights.

But last night, records were broken in MN with a very sharply defined/concentrated 'Polar Vortex' or air mass that separated from the Arctic Jet Stream and wobbled its way southeastward, as usual, right down the eastern edge of the Dakotas and middle of Minnesota.

I had -11 for the lowest temperature. My reading comes from just outside of town at the airport (which is just an open field with some instruments on a pole) but some areas around MN reported in at >-20.

Right in town here, we're generally a little warmer but just a short distance from miles of open farm field to my NNW has a way of letting the cold in unimpeded.

Readings I use are updated every hour, so I saved a screen shot of a few during the night, in case it warmed some by morning. And there are so many 'Low Areas' in mid MN, where cold air can 'pool', so these maps may not show pinpoint accuracy.

3:00 AM 12-4-2025: It was already -5 around bedtime with NNW icy breeze.

Just before 4:00, the breeze switched to the South without much change in temps.

By 7:00 AM the cold began to spread southeastward into Wisconsin and Iowa.

I'm so glad I'm now in a warmer zone than we were. Thanks USDA! 🤣

The temperatures are still above zone 4a minimum averages, but if it's this cold this early, what's to come in January?

Generally early December cold snaps of around zero are not uncommon here.

eta: The sun today will moderate this cold air and highs in the low twenties are in the forecast.

NOAA’s predictions are wrong about 50% of the time

Bill , I live in that cold patch in SE WY on your maps

Yeah, there's things here too that you cannot change.

And look who's in the cold spot on my temperature maps from this morning!

Thinking, I must live in the 50% that they're right (except when summer rain is forecast. lol).

When words are used like 'Cold' and 'Snow' for Dec, Jan. & Feb. it's an anomaly if that doesn't happen. ;-)

Just for remembrance, I looked back at some of my old photos from the last 9 years (when I regularly began taking pictures) and was surprised to see there were very few January photos, from that period, that didn't have at least a covering of snow on the ground in them. And those photos showing bare ground were early in the month and photos later in the month had good snow cover.

But oh well, we always take what we get, that's for sure. :-)

I was just glad we got as much snow as we did, so I could bank up around my newer, marginally zoned plantings, at least the first couple of years and if they don't survive after that, 'do widzenia'. ;^)

The 'Blob' lingers:

:-)

Another good reason for having snow in winter. :-)

eta:

If there's at least 2" of snow on the ground, burning permits aren't required.

Bill, in the 1990s there was an unusual early Feb cold inversion in Virginia where at the same time the low "frost hollow" valleys in southwest Va were -24F (it was -9F at my place), and a station high on Afton mountain near Charlottesville, Va was fog and +32F! Less than 200 miles apart.

That must've been a cold time for much of the country.

Coldest day on MN record: −60∘𝐹 in Tower MN on February 2, 1996.

Tower is located in a pretty remote area of the old Vermilion iron range.

Surrounded by some of the largest peat bogs in the world.

Be interesting to see how accurate our upgrade to z4a is after this season.

Can get pretty darn cold in my area. -46 several years ago now.

As an aside:

My DW secretly bought me a 1000 pc. jigsaw puzzle when we visited the MBG and gave it to me a few weeks ago. Called house plant jungle. Just finished it. One of my 'Winter Projects' to help manage the 'Cabin Fever' as it's called.

;-)

What the heck is a ”burning permit”

It's something you get at the forestry office, if you want to burn off an area or a brush pile, so they have an idea of who's burning and at what locations the fires will be at.

That way, if the fire gets away from you and you burn down the woods and possibly some homes and buildings (possibly yours), they don't charge you for all the firefighting equipment and personnel to come out to put the fire out.

Not sure about any damages caused from your activities, like if you were totally reckless and didn't correctly prepare the area to be burned or did unadvised burning on a dry windy day.

You don't have burning permits out there?

And for those who are curious about plant names (no guarantees by me).

;-)

Interesting thread! I don't follow weather nearly as much or as closely as many of you (and so found the above discussions fascinating!) but I do have a few general observations - for what they are worth, considering I DON'T pay much attention lol -

In general, our winters here in southern CT have been getting milder. Gone are the snows I remember from childhood. Heck, gone are the snows from the first year I moved into my new house a few decades ago. I moved from an urban, somewhat gritty city to what I lovingly(?) refer to as "the Yukon". Only two towns over, about 10 miles away, but much more rural-ish and much higher elevation. The first year I lived here, we had 19 big snowstorms, hence my calling it the Yukon!

Now we barely get snow. Maybe one or two good snowfalls a year, and by good I mean at least 3 inches. But what I have noticed is that while we don't get the snow we used to, and have fewer "weather events", when they do occur, they are.... worse, for lack of a better word. We might not get a traditional snowfall, but instead an ice storm. Or freezing rain that may turn to snow (leaving a nice slick layer of ice under the snow on the roads). The temps and weather in general fluctuate more - in the 10's in the morning and high 40's in the afternoon, or perhaps 20 degrees one day and 50 the next, or a nice sunny warmish winter day followed by a sudden ice storm the next.

Even now - last week was fairly nice late fall weather. 60ish, sunny, good yard-working weather. Suddenly we plunged into very cold temps - 10 degrees yesterday morning, high of 33- for the last week. Just a sudden swing. I've got huge piles of leaves that I raked up last weekend, hoping to vacuum them up with my shredder this weekend, only to be suddenly frozen in place by the freezing rain (leaving me hoping they haven't already become Vole Motels lol!)

Secondly, I also wanted to comment on the idea of microclimates which were being discussed above. Definitely have those here. First, I see a descending progression of weather as I leave my mountain top and go down to work in downtown. In spring, my yard/area is still barren, halfway down the hill there are faints signs of green and buds, and downtown the first spring flowers and trees are blooming. In the fall, foliage in my area turns before the downtown area. Heck, there are times I have called in to say I will be late to work because of the snow, and my coworker downtown will hesitate and say,"...what snow?" LOL.

My daughter lives about 8 houses down the street from me, and we have definitely different microclimates. Her yard is sunnier (I have a LOT of trees), and more open. Advantages for her - more sun, and warmer than my yard. Disadvantages - wind! Oh my God the wind in her yard! And heat and dryness in the summer. My yard stays cooler and the soil moister from the shade and wind protection from the trees. So we have some of the exact same plants (I gave her half my garden when she moved in) and it always intrigues me to see the difference in not only timing but extent of growth/blooming.

Lastly, I am very mundane when it comes to seasons. I always just follow the established guidelines - solstice, equinox, etc. I remember just recently being a bit confused because here on GW someone was discussing their "midsummer" garden in early June. I was thinking, MIDsummer? it's not even summer yet! Lol, for me, midsummer is late July, early August, literally the middle of the established summer. Or like when people say Labor Day is the start of fall. Um, no, not exactly....lol

I like the idea of the six seasons. I think that's more realistic, allowing for seasonal differences. Take our autumn, for instance. Mid-September is definitely different from mid-November, but they are considered the same season. The six seasons allows for those differences to be better categorized, imo.

Thanks for an interesting discussion!

:)

Dee

P.S. Bill, I too kind of look forward to winter as a time to enjoy some other hobbies. I've got a box of literally about 50 jigsaw puzzles passed down to me from a fellow obsessed puzzler who had to make room in her house. It's been sitting in my living room since spring, untouched (because I spend all my free time in the garden!) and drawing the ire of my husband. One of my chores for today (since my leaves are indeed frozen under a fresh dusting of snow this morning) is to at the very least move the box down to my finished basement. Hopefully in a week or two I can get started on some of those puzzles!

'I'm on the meterological winter schedule'

Good point maackia.

Meteorological scale makes spring arrive 3 weeks earlier than the astrological does! ha-ha!

Dee,

The more I hear from other parts of the country, the more I realize a good portion of the gardening community, that reside in a continental climate, has an end of growing season at some point, even though some are shorter and less severe than others.

And if it wasn't for a few harsh winter cold snaps, that limit my plant selection, I'm not too different than many other areas.

With these 'zone upgrades' it appears we're getting more of those warm, back to cold then to warm again scenarios during winter. I don't know if that will be a bad thing or not, but I would think it might keep us a little warmer than those -30s+ we used to get regularly most years. 🤞

We try to get out to all our grandchildren's school and sports activities, when we can and I do have a workshop downstairs, for when I really need to find something to do, like a repair but after years and years in the mechanical and manufacturing field, I'm less enthused about all that. And it's good for the brain to learn about other things. imo.

OT:

Speaking of other things :^), I'm a little ahead in fabricating 'plant id plates' for next year. Even though some of those, I'm not positive if they'll survive the winter.

And one tag, I don't even have a tree for yet. lol

(I'm trying a new stake design, that won't 'spin' in the wind).

;-)

;-)

“And one tag, I don't even have a tree for yet.”

Gardener optimism.: How would we survive winter without it!?

Bill - those are impressive. When you have time can you start a new thread (or did I miss one?) about how you are making them?