This one is a beauty!

@Ian Stewart if by "fertile", you're referring to whether it may be useful in breeding, Help Me Find-Roses lists three distinct seedlings raised from its seed. The fourth name is a synonym of one of the other seedlings.

Appreciate it @roseseek ! And yes that is what I meant. Hoping to perhaps breeding with the mosses, though I should probably look into Moore's work before doing that lol.

@Ian Stewart be forewarned.... first generation hybrids between mosses and other roses tended to be EXTREMELY vigorous for Mr. Moore. 12-59-10, his Pinocchio X William Lobb seedling which formed the basis of much of his moss breeding, was a MONSTER. It was planted beside one of his "green houses", wooden frames covered in heavy plastic sheeting. They kept it whacked off at the height of the green house. The base of the plant was tree-like. There was a huge thicket which engulfed other green houses in a rather deserted area of the nursery, which was comprised of other tree-like moss hybrids whose names and lineages had long been lost. I hope you have a LOT of open ground in which to let them explode. I've always considered it a fine example of Mr. Moore's rose "wizardry" that he was able to take that ultra vigorous first generation moss hybrid and completely tame it in one generation by crossing it with his marvelous mini, New Penny, resulting in Fairy Moss. Unfortunately, it appears New Penny has disappeared.

@roseseek - This is new, thank you for letting me know. Mosses seem highly interesting as a whole group...Or, trait. Thankfully I have all the room I'll ever need for future breeding. As for now I'm just adding to my collection. I'm mostly interested in the old Mosses and their habits but I thought it would be interesting to have high centered Hybrid Teas with the mossing (if that's possible). Gabrielle Noyelle has a HT style bloom, so that is neat.

Thanks roseseek!

You're welcome, @Ian Stewart. HT form with mossing is possible. Way back in the 1990s, J&P had a yellow mossed HT. They listed it in their catalog for one year, then it disappeared. I called them and the lovely lady answering the phone asked me to wait as they frequently had varieties from previous catalogs still available. They did, she sent it and I grew it for some years in my old Newhall garden. I never found it in an ARS publication and it is not listed on Help Me Find. Mr. Moore created 7-58-1 which was very much a pink floribunda moss with an HT shape. He used it to create Rouge Moss and Dresden Doll. His Lady Moss (Fairy Moss X Gabriel Noyelle) can have some of the look you describe. I think you may find your goal faster if you work more with the repeat flowering mosses more than the once-flowering types. You'll benefit from already having repeat flowering built into the equation, preventing you from a good bit of having to over come the once-flowering habit. Definitely use any and all minis which perform well in your area to help engineer more dwarf, continually flowering plants. Not everything you mate with mosses will produce mosses. That will take some exploration to determine what the best mates for the traits you desire may be. Fingers crossed for you!

Well, this gives me the motivation I need for the HT moss idea. Thank you, as always Roseseek.

As I mentioned in the post, I have never, ever played my hand with the moss class as a whole. I have Gallicas, Damask, moderns, miniatures but no moss roses. So this question may come as silly but it's a real curiosity - Do modern moss roses still have the scent on the moss? If so, is it as strong as the old moss roses?

Appreciate all the wisdom, regards Ian Stewart

Some have scent on the moss while others don't. It seems when Wichurana genes get into the mix, they "polish" all the plant parts and reduce or eliminate the moss. Mr. Moore raised Rugosa X Moss seedlings. Their moss smelled BAD. They stank. A number of more modern roses (not mosses) have scent glands on their sepals, ovaries and peduncles but not nearly as many as OGRs. The scent varies in strength and type depending upon the genes of the rose in question. @Paul Barden raised Lemon Moss, a modern moss mini https://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.59974.1&tab=1 whose moss possessed lemon and pine scents. I noticed in my exploration of R. Fedtschenkoana that some seedlings were very smooth and few were "mossy". DLFED 3 https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.63190&tab=1 had mossy buds. The "moss scent" of Fedtschenkoana is "Noble Fir with hardwood smoke". DLFED 3 is still "evergreen" but without the smoke element and further crosses with it and moderns which produced mossy buds altered the scent through various evergreen types (spruce, pine, etc.). Mr. Moore's Scarlet Moss had multiple doses of Dortmund in it with little scent. https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.5640

Paul's old web site, Old Garden Roses and Beyond, is archived on the Wayback Machine (Internet Archive). Here is a link to Mr. Moore's writings there. https://web.archive.org/web/20161208182907/http://paulbardenroses.com/ralphmoore/contents/index.html Scroll to the bottom of that page to the link to the rest of the site. On that page, scroll down to the "Resources Guide" drop down menu to find the Site Index which will take you anywhere you want to go on the site. You will find sections on mosses and all other types. You can find a number of mossed minis, also, in the miniature section. Scour this and you'll have a wealth of information you can explore to direct your moss interests.

@roseseek - I appreciate it, and thanks for the links! I'll check out Moore's writings.

@Sheila - I just now seen that beautiful picture of Capitaine John Ingram! Soo beautiful! Thanks for sharing <3

Some of Ralph's primary Moss hybrids were monsters in Visalia, but not here. 12-59-10 struggles to maintain more than 3 or 4 canes and they tend to stay under 5 feet. "OM" was even worse — it died outside in the open garden and only survived in a large pot in a hoop house under plastic. Even now, it has only a few canes about 6 feet long.

I've rarely gotten anything of value from "OM", and I don't think I have a single seedling from 12-59-10 that I kept, but if you worked really hard and grew hundreds of seedlings, you'd eventually find one or two keepers. There are better roses to work with. I found 'Dresden Doll' reliably bred mossed offspring, as did 'Condoleezza', but I no longer have 'Condoleezza' and I fear it is extinct.

'Scarlet Moss' has immense potential for breeding remontant modern Mosses. Circas 2010 I crossed it with Svejda's "L-83" and got several heavily mossed seedlings with a variety of peachy and crimson colors. I registered one of these two years ago: 'Carol Whitten'. I would recommend 'Scarlet Moss' as worthy of serious consideration in a breeding program.

I do still have 'Capitaine John Ingram' and it's very pretty, but I have never attempted to work with it. I have not seen it make seeds and I am uncertain about it's ability to generate viable pollen. @Ian Stewart USA Zone 6 if it's a modern HT style mossed bloom you're looking to create, if you go back to 'Capitaine John Ingram', then you are really just reinventing the proverbial wheel. If I were wanting to start a new line with good color and mossing, I would mate 'Scarlet Moss' with something like 'Midnight Blue' and see what you get.

Oh wow...Condoleezza was a beauty! If it is truly extinct, RIP to that. Scarlet Moss is a beauty AND High Country Roses has it in stock still!! Maybe I should get it...

On another topic, maybe I should work with the crested roses instead of mossing. Decorated sepals like on Crested Jewel or something like your hybrid Crested Damask @Paul Barden is truly a cool trait. One of the reasons why I like the old garden roses is for their magnificent sepals. Bella Donna has amazing sepals and I'm soo ready for it to bloom soon. One of the reasons why I was very curious about the moss roses though were because even when they weren't in bloom they appear to have mossy new growth. How cool is that.

Thanks Paul, regards Ian Stewart

Another of Ralph's early mosses that I think may be worth working with is 7-62-9, from a cross of 'Little Darling' X "OM".

See: 7-62-9

Oh wow...Where can I find 7-62-9?? Looks perfect for my breeding moss HTs!

@Ian Stewart USA Zone 6 See your DMs.