Lighting for High Single Sloped Ceilings

12 years ago

We are building a new contemporary home in Wyoming and need to make a decision about our general lighting. All of our ceilings, except the laundry/mud room, are single sloping ceilings that begin at 10' and slope to 18' high, with pitches between 2.5:12 to 6:12. We originally designed for lighting using 6" IC (required by code) sloped ceiling cans with Alzak trim from Juno. We went this direction to give us an adequate beam spread and plenty of light without having an overdose of cans in the ceiling. We also used these in our design because sloped ceiling IC cans seem to only come in 6". I have heard the buzz about 6" cans being dated and am concerned about going forward with our existing plan. We are considering going to a smaller IC can, possibly with a gimbal trim, but believe we will end up with way too many fixtures in the ceiling and we are not sure we will get adequate lighting due to the ceiling heights and slopes. Help from anyone with lighting expertise beyond my limited knowledge would be greatly appreciated!

Featured Answer

User

12 years ago

Most LED bulbs are designed for use in open fixtures. The heatsink needs to have a way to dissipate the heat. An airtight can surrounded by insulation will severely shorten the bulb life. Add a gimbel trim to that, and it traps virtually all the heat into a very hot attic space due to the vault with much less air circulation capability. In addition, the transformer for the halogen is marginally compatible with the LED at best. By the time you put in enough cans to light the room, it will also be noisy. A 6" can allows for around 1100 lumens of light, but the mr16 LED only produces about 470 lumens. For a kitchen, I plan for 300 lumens per linear foot of countertop on a 9' ceiling. That means the 6" cans are every 4' and the 4" cans would be less than every 2'. As the ceiling gets higher, the light gets dimmer at the counter work surface. (foot candles or lux) This would require even more holes in the ceiling. 6" cans are easier to retrofit with a proper transformer in the future or go with a purpose-built LED fixture.

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Comments (7)

PRO
FINNE Architects
12 years ago
I would not use 6" diameter cans. You can find 4" diameter cans with MR-16 lamps. You could also consider low voltage surface-mount fixtures with MR-16 lamps. We used surface mounted MR-16 lamps with Bruck fixtures at the Redmond House, which has 20-ft ceilings. See attached.
Redmond House · More Info
sgi4950
Original Author
12 years ago
last modified: 12 years ago
Thank you very much Finne Architects for your reply and ideas. Do you use LED lamps when using MR-16's? If so, do you recommend a particular brand? I always enjoy visiting your project images so I will go back and focus on the lighting ideas you have used. Thanks again.
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PRO
FINNE Architects
12 years ago
last modified: 12 years ago
We use the Phillips Endura LED MR-16 replacement bulb often........However, for high ceilings, you will find that the LED lamps do not deliver as many lumens as the MR-16 halogen lamps, especially the narrow beam (10 degree beam spread) MR-16 halogen.
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PRO
Clear Lighting and Electrical Design
12 years ago
Stick with the 6 inch Juno fixtures and use a PAR 30 LED light source. Keep in mind that recessed fixtures installed in ceiling may allow for heat to escape to the roof. This heat may melt snow on the roof and the water flows down to a cold spot and refreezes. Then again and again until you have an ice dam and water will eventually make it to inside of the home.

Not saying this will happen, just offering my $0.02 worth from building in Vail for 30 years. Clear Lighting and Electrical Design CLearLED.biz
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sgi4950
Original Author
12 years ago
It sounds like the 6" cans are the way we will go. I don't want to be out of style before I am even complete with building but I think the pros outweigh the cons! We visited a 5,000 SF home yesterday that used 4" cans with MR16's and they used almost 500 fixtures. I love the scale of the fixture and the look of an MR16 but there were certainly a lot of fixtures in the ceilings. It was hard to imagine but they said they still didn't have enough light.

Thanks Fred S for the detailed information. I had not considered the noise or the air circulation and the lumens are a big concern. I have used the Feit, PAR 38 LED's in a recent remodel in Dallas and have been happy with the lumens and the color so I was planning to use those again if we utilized the 6" cans.

Thanks for your .02 Clear Lighting. Nothing better than real life experience. We are building with a warm roof utilizing spray foam insulation of R60, thanks in part to extreme building codes here in Jackson Hole. With those specs do you think we would experience ice damming as a result of the recessed cans? Also, do you mind explaining why you prefer a PAR 30 LED vs a PAR 38 LED?

Thanks again to everyone for sharing your expertise. I enjoy the many facets of lighting but it can sometimes be very confusing to the laymen. Once I figure this step out I have to decide on whether to utilize a lighting control system...considering Lutron or Savant (Light Touch). If you have any thoughts on lighting control I would welcome your input on that topic as well.
PRO
Clear Lighting and Electrical Design
12 years ago
The Juno IC 926 housing will accept both the PAR 30 and PAR 38. I like the PAR 30 to allow more air to circulate around the light source. Keeping the warmed air from rising is very important with a warm roof system. Are you using any rigid foam insulation above the recessed fixture housing that the spray-in type will not cover?

We have several white papers on how the select a lighting and home control system. If you would like a copy please send me an email. We provide consulting and design services and do not sell or install products. Enjoy you project!

Clear Lighting and Electrical Design
Gary@ClearLED.biz
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