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hi13

Bad staircase design...please help!

hi13
8 years ago
We are not around to monitor our new build, and ended up with a horrible design that has the pickets in the stairway dying into the ceiling...not the wall. We're building a traditional craftsman, and this design looks terrible. I would so much appreciate any help. Thanks in advance for any suggestions/ideas. I'm really sad about this.

Comments (60)

  • rocketjcat
    8 years ago
    @peter b rice... Does the rise and the run look 'standard'? It almost seems that the rise is shorter than usual, which would make the stairs longer, and perhaps run out of wall? I think your solution is a great one, I was just curious what your take on the ratio is and if that could have contributed to the issue?
  • PRO
    Peter B. Rice & Co
    8 years ago
    'Standard' or to Code. Appears that the riser height is 7" or so which is fine. The depth of the tread looks like 12" also pretty normal. I think with the width of that staircase, at least 42" it reads fine.
  • rocketjcat
    8 years ago
    That's great, thank you for the education on it! :-)
  • billiesue14
    8 years ago
    When I first looked at the picture, I thought the issue would be the two tiny, mismatched, low windows. When someone is standing on the landing, the tops of the windows will be at waist height. And why aren't they the same size? My guess is that the windows were placed for how they look from outside. What do you pros think about the window placement? I don't think I have ever seen anything like it.
  • PRO
    Iconic Deco Interiors
    8 years ago
    I would suggest (if possible) to build a wall up high on the second rail. You'll then have a nice corner area down there to place a huge mirror and a console. Also you can add a wooden wall as in pic. The first rail can look like this as pictures. Or you can add a glass rail.
  • orchardsgal
    8 years ago
    Can you replace the last picket with a half newel post that would abut the ceiling and wall? Not sure if this would work.
    hi13 thanked orchardsgal
  • PRO
    LB Interiors
    8 years ago
    I think Peter B. Rice & Co. has the professional information.
    I'm not sure but this is what I was thinking. PB Rice & Co .... Is this possible?
  • PRO
    Peter B. Rice & Co
    8 years ago
    LB Interiors, I like that idea. I think that is the least invasive option besides seeing how the space feels once furniture is moved in and living with it. hi13, this would be a conversation to have with your builder.
  • PRO
    LB Interiors
    8 years ago
    Thanks PBR & Co. Designers get some crazy ideas but the challenge is to try to make them work LOL
  • PRO
    Peter B. Rice & Co
    8 years ago
    Give me crazy ideas like that and my job would be a breeze
  • PRO
    River Valley Cabinet Works
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago
    @LB, Why does that look better? That railing doesn't die into a landing.

    Why wouldn't the builder extend the stairwell wall out one more tread? Then the angle of the railing is not interrupted and it will die into the wall like the customer wants.

    @hi13, This is not an out-of-character solution. I have done this before. Sometimes it's even worse; if the railing hits at a point where it touches both the ceiling and the wall, other measures have to be taken.
    hi13 thanked River Valley Cabinet Works
  • hi13
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    Wow! you guys are truly amazing, and I'm overwhelmed and humbled by the responses I've received! What a great community Houzz has created. I'm not trying to throw the designer under the bus, but I did comment on the pickets disappearing into the ceiling on the elevations and I was told that this was a limitation in their media that made it look this way. I then just assumed it would die into the wall in a conventional way. The build is going on thousands of miles away, so we're not there to monitor. It is what it is. I agree that in a few instances they used a modern application where it should have been a more traditional approach, but I'm not savvy enough to have 'caught' everything. Our builders (Mokulua HPB) have been unbelievably awesome in all this and have gone way above & beyond what is to be expected. Besides the few hiccoughs, the house is beautiful and we are very lucky to be the owners. I will share all your comments with the contractor (the picture is SO great!), and I'm sure we will come up with a solution. Thank you all for your time and ideas...especially PBR & Co., John James O'Brien and LB interiors.
  • hi13
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    Hi River Valley...I think your option might end up looking the best, maybe a bit more expensive, but would look more like the traditional Craftsman style I want. Thank you!
  • hi13
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    One more thing Houzzers.... What about taking a piece of the railing and running it right up against the ceiling where the pickets die into it now. The pickets would now die into the rail and not the ceiling. I can't fully appreciate how it would look. What do you think?
  • PRO
    LB Interiors
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago
    River Valley, I'm seeing that both the railing and the spindles embed into the ceiling. I'm not understanding you? I think that it does look aesthetically better.

    I think only newel post at the ceiling looks nicer and allows the railing beyond it to visually seem logical and the railing is not attached to the ceiling. MO
  • PRO
    LB Interiors
    8 years ago
    hi13 - Do you mean this?
    PBR & Co. Can this be done? What do you think?
  • hi13
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    Yes LB Interiors... Wish I was talented enough to do that. What do you think?
  • PRO
    LB Interiors
    8 years ago
    I think it is what visually works the best for you. You have some good options.
  • PRO
    LB Interiors
    8 years ago
    River Valley, Is this what you mentioned? Wall extended?
  • hatetoshop
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago
    I know nothing about railings, etc, but I do like the top right-hand option the best. I think it not only looks the best, the railing functions as it should -- something to grasp should you need to.
    hi13 thanked hatetoshop
  • PRO
    LB Interiors
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago
    Sorry hi13 & hatetoshop ... I re-drew some things on the first posting of options.

    Here is visual summary of some options:
  • curlycook
    8 years ago
    I would choose the 2nd or 4th option. The added wall seems odd with the stair trim to me. What is against the wall where the railing terminates?

    Curiosity got the best of me, so I walked downstairs to see how our railing and trim looks.
    hi13 thanked curlycook
  • PRO
    Myers Homes
    8 years ago
    The "horizontal rail" idea will put the rail too low from the perspective of the stairs and people on the stairs. A code official could rightly turn it down. The stairwell should have been designed originally with the wall return as per LB Interiors drawing, though at this point I'd be hard pressed to suggest to a client that we'd put a wall on the tread (I think that's just a drawing artifact since these are just sketches etc.) but, if this happened to us, we'd redo the stair to add that bit of wall. It's not easy, but the balusters disappearing into the ceiling is absurd-just my opinion. There was a suggestion to design a cabinet or millwork solution, which would likely work, but I doubt it would cost any less, and likely more, than pulling that part of the stairway apart and redoing it to build in the wall return. If they think about it, your builder isn't going to want to leave this this way either- it's not a good reflection on them!
  • PRO
    PPF.
    8 years ago
    I might move the wall out 2 steps. Enough to get a half newel post for the rail to die into.

    Unsure about the skirt board.
  • PRO
    LB Interiors
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago
    ppf, I like that too! That means an extension of the wall.

    Cost might be a big factor. It also depends what look 'you' like for your vision.
  • PRO
    PPF.
    8 years ago
    One with a truncated skirt board.
  • hi13
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    You guys are great! SO nice to have the drawings...thank you LBI! And Myers Homes...I said the same thing to the contractor...that it looked absurd and I didn't think they would be happy with it either. But really, all the contractor can be expected to do is to work off the plans in hand...right? We're lucky that ours is stepping up to remedy it. Many thanks!
  • hi13
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    Oh...and I'm tempted to just leave the top newel out. Just have the rail die into the wall.
  • PRO
    River Valley Cabinet Works
    8 years ago
    @LB-Yes, that is what I meant; however, I was incorrect in thinking only one tread would do it. @ppf has it right.

    As @ Myers pointed out, code would nix idea #2 and #4 is as poor a solution as what @hi13 has now. It's true that if the railing dies into the ceiling, something should be between it and the drywall. Here's a job I did with a similar situation. I think I had to build out the wall but I used a jamb instead of drywall.
  • PRO
    Myers Homes
    8 years ago
    Glad it's turning out good for you. We've had funky stuff happen in the field that either wasn't on the drawings or wasn't correct on the drawings, and, like in the Al Pacino movie, you just have to tango on when you get tangled up-
    hi13 thanked Myers Homes
  • hi13
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    curlycook: Thanks for the pic. Yours IS pretty similar, but more subtle. Also, your house looks a little more modern with those pretty railings, so it seems to work better. There are more stairs up around the corner that go to the second landing.
  • Fred S
    8 years ago
    For the record "#2 and #4" are no less code compliant than the others. A "handrail" has to be continuous from landing to landing, so a code compliant handrail has to be added some other way. A "guardrail" merely has to ensure that a 4" sphere cannot pass through up to a height of 34".
  • hi13
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    OK yeah...this is getting really complicated. Maybe I should just replace the stairway with an elevator.... Any suggestions Fred S.? About the stairs...not an elevator ; )
  • PRO
    PPF.
    8 years ago
    Continuous handrail
    hi13 thanked PPF.
  • Fred S
    8 years ago
    Aesthetically, and for GUARDrail compliance, pick any of the 4 options that suit your fancy. For HANDrail compliance, look at the previous pictures. If I were designing this, I would not have made the upper floor extend out over the stairs in the first place. Sorry, I haven't come up with any better alternatives than what has already been offered without major remodeling.
    hi13 thanked Fred S
  • Fred S
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago
    The problem with ppf's example is that the rail dies into the ceiling. Which means you still need to add a wall section to make it continuously usable. "Handrails adjacent to a wall shall have a space of not less than 1 1/2 inch (38 mm) between the wall and the handrails." So, the handrail will not be able to die into the wall or a newel post also. It would look like it is just hanging there IMO

    http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2012/icod_irc_2012_3_sec011.htm
    hi13 thanked Fred S
  • Fred S
    8 years ago
    This is a quick, sloppy attempt on my phone to demonstrate what it might look like if the rail bent around the wall. It would need either a wall or spindles down the stairs to a point low enough that you dont end up wedging your arm in when leaving your hand on the rail all the way up or down the stairs.
  • PRO
    LB Interiors
    8 years ago
    Visuals seem to help. You're Welcome hi13.
    hi13 thanked LB Interiors
  • hi13
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    Thanks for your time Fred S. Everyone's been so great...so refreshing that people are willing to share their ideas & time.
  • PRO
    Foley Development Group
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago
    hi13, sorry to say it but your kind of screwed on this one. That is a terrible installation and a builder worth his salt should have seen that this was going to be a problem and made simple adjustments prior to ordering and installing the stair. You should rip out the upper box stair, close in the wall 2' plus or minus, then install a new box stair that will allow the rail to die into the vertical wall with a rosette. I would be surprised if those upper balusters meet code because they are probably just trim nailed into the drywall. If you were to push on one with any kind of force, like a kid will probably do, they may just pop off of there. Also, that rail needs to be continuous to the top of the stair case which it is not and you don't have a rail on the other side of the wall.
    Are those windows at the bottom of the stair tempered??? You can look on the bottom corner of the glass and it will have the tempered stamp etched into the glass. If not, major code violation.
    Sorry for your troubles.
  • PRO
    Foley Development Group
    8 years ago
    And you should have the builder fix the stair at their expense. Basically what I see is very poor site supervision. How experienced is the superintendent on your job? How often is he/she there?
  • hi13
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    Thanks for your input Foley Development. Hopefully it will all work out.
  • pickingone
    7 years ago

    Hi13, what was your final decision? I have the same dilemma at the moment during my remodel.

  • ninigret
    7 years ago

    just dont make the odd gap as in photo 2 that a kid would surely get their head stuck in, LOL.

  • rocketjcat
    7 years ago
    Old post from 2014, but I hope the OP comes back with their resolution.
  • Susan Davis
    7 years ago

    If your foyer ceiling is 8 feet that is how it looks and has to be done to code. Handrails are a certain height so people do not fall over them....but IF your ceiling is 9 feet or 10 feet code would have been the same for hand rail height but you would have seen more of it because the ceiling is out of the way. Your ceiling height is the problem and if you did not specify a plan for stairs the way you wanted them then the contractor built to code and building and house inspection code other wise you would not have gotten an occupancy permit?

  • sldarb1
    3 years ago

    Please post the final result and I would like to see pics on the stairwell looking up to 2nd floor.

  • felizlady
    3 years ago

    It does look a bit odd, but maybe there are local codes requiring railing at a specific height on a stairway. Discuss this with the contractor. If he deviated from the drawn blueprints, he should have contacted you first.

  • HU-803860931
    last year

    Can I see a picture of what you did?