For those of you boiling tar and plucking chickens, I thought I would weigh in.
Lest you think I am defending the job done here, let me say I am not. I am posting to point out there are two separate issues here.
The first issue makes no difference to the poster or the angry mob because of the way the pattern looks. The issue in question is if the tile was installed mechanically correct: proper floor prep, drain slope, waterproof membrane installation, adhesive products, tile flat and level. The secondary issue is how the tile was set: did he put the mats in 180 degrees out of phase, or pattern shifted.
No one knows unless he told the customer or he posts here with an explanation.
I know people feel good when they rip into someone: if the mechanics are sound and it's just a matter of lining up the pattern, give the dude a chance to make it right.

Spencer Construction's link to Daltile pattern #6006 illustrates how very easy it is to do it right, and how easily someone not paying attention to doing it right could go wrong. IMO, this is about the difference between necessary attention to achieving a quality outcome versus an approach that is, basically, pay for time worked.

There is a lot ( a LOT ) of the latter in general contractor projects, but a good GC will ensure that the client does not experience these kinds of outcomes by ensuring that the work is planned and reviewed at stages throughout. In smaller projects, that oversight can be up to the designer as client rep or a family member (or if lucky, a pride-in-work artisan's care and attention). In any case, it is important to assign a "job" to yourself or your rep to foresee how work underway will end up and make corrective direction along the way to avoid need to rip it out and do it over. In this case, you really have no choice.

That said, you an choose how you deal with the contractor, noting that you have vetted his earlier work, took him on through the all important work of mouth recommendation and past experience, and want to be able to tell you many friends and internet connections about the great results...but need that great result to be realised.

In my view, there should be no cost to you.

A word of caution, however, around the "right" and "wrong" of that matter: everybody has a budget and less money than wanted. True of you and your contractor. It can be cold comfort to be "right" and force a free fix—even though you are absolutely entitled to one—if that free fix gets paid for out of short cuts taken elsewhere or a lost relationship that might prove valuable through lessons learned. Sometimes, offering to help be a part of the solution can go a long way to turning an embarrassed, defensive or resentful trade into a grateful partner. If actually covering any part of the cost is not an option, then consider an "understanding" approach to a problem that MUST be fixed as one way to test the waters.

Good luck!

Looking at the tile sheet as pictured on the Home Depot site, it looks like the tile setter "turned" some of the sheets, say a 1/4 turn, every once in awhile, which totally threw off the pattern. It looks like it was a quickly done install, or the tile setter was simply not paying attention. Here is the link that shows the sheet, and if every sheet is not laid out in the exact same direction, the pattern would go askew!
http://t.homedepot.com/p/Merola-Tile-Metro-Hex-Glossy-White-with-Black-Dot-10-1-4-in-x-11-3-4-in-Porcelain-Mosaic-Floor-and-Wall-Tile-8-54-sq-ft-case-FXLMHWBD/202034845

Sorry for your predicament! I hope the installer will see his mistake and do it over properly.

Some of the comments in this thread had me rolling - "unicorn caravans from Jupiter"?!! Thanks for the laugh Soberg!

Grab the pitchforks & torches... he's over here! It's River Valley!

I agree... the "professional" installer was either concentrating on what's for dinner, or what he/she had for lunch, or rockin' out to the iPod... and got a few (?) sheets turned,.
Result... pattern is off. Almost makes me think it was laid from the sides instead of "center" out...
Regardless, the individual has no perception or pays no attention to detail... (I call it finesse) and simply didn't notice...
Or worse yet... it finally DID dawn on them & it became an "awww... screw-it" moment, figuring nobody else would notice.
Sounds like he/she was half way to home base with hubby asleep at the wheel! haha (no offense, hubby!)

Mr. River Valley. I think everyone, except two of the Pros, was doing exactly what you said: giving the dude the chance to make it right. No one suggested any other outcome for the dude. However, the homeowner was specifically asking "Does this NEED to be made right?" and there is no way to answer that except, "yes, the dude did it wrong" and that's what posters told her. I don't see anybody commenting for the joy of ripping into somebody, If anything, posters went out of their way to use humor and a light touch. The installer made a mistake, or several. There's nothing tar and feathering-y about assuring the poster it was the installer, not her.

The homeowner wasn't expressing any concern about the mechanics of the job so that's just obfuscatory. I'm using a big word because I feel defensive. :) That would be like a surgeon defending operating on the wrong leg by pointing out the pins were inserted correctly.

None the less, I believe any professional, or person, I guess, should be able to say, I screwed up. I will make it right, without suggesting the criticism of their mistake comes from some unwarranted place, such as loving a mob.

Kind of sad, also, that we customers have to tiptoe around on the eggshells and it is suggested we shoulder part of the cost, so the contractor doesn't get hurt feelings or make it up by cutting corners somewhere else!!! I guess that's the way it goes.

jn3344, I hope I am not mis-understood in my post. You don't have to tiptoe at all, rather, be clear, firm and consistent and communicate throughout. That's the way to stay on top of the work. Hurt feelings on either side are not smart—albeit sometimes inevitable. I prefer to avoid the risk by planning and managing execution well. In this case, it seems there was trust in the contractor's abilities to deliver and, one hopes, that trust will be born out (it ain't over yet).

Zoinks! That pattern would make me nutsola! I count 8+ places where it's off.

John James O'Brien - yes sorry I totally misunderstood this paragraph...

"It can be cold comfort to be "right" and force a free fix—even though you are absolutely entitled to one—if that free fix gets paid for out of short cuts taken elsewhere or a lost relationship that might prove valuable through lessons learned.

****Sometimes, offering to help be a part of the solution can go a long way to turning an embarrassed, defensive or resentful trade into a grateful partner. If actually covering any part of the cost is not an option...****"

I misread the last part as meaning the best option would be to offer to cover part of the cost. But if one were unable to do that, then an "understanding approach" should be employed.

Cheers!

@ciscomo said-"Hi Toupin, let me guess, you're the guy who installed it?"
"OK, and Romero is the installer's brother in law. WTH with the Pros defending this?"

@lori said-"rip it out and have it done right -- fire the guy who did it. ho decent tile guy should have not seen the mistake"

@Lila Hayes said-"That would drive me insane. And I really hope Toupin is not a contractor in my neighborhood."

That sounds like the kind of humor that lights up a certain brand of poster here on Houzz. And quote #3 says fire "the dude".....

So as long as the tile looks good, everyone is okay? As I pointed out, we don't know what was going on with the contractor....so maybe we shouldn't jump to conclusions other than agree the tile was set wrong and should be fixed. Let's not get lost in the tall grass!
As far as obfuscation goes, the reason I brought up the mechanics is that the inference is being made that the installer is incompetent. The plumber who installed my shower valve installed it upside down; was it a moment of inattention or is he incompetent based on that?

So, here is an update...and it's a doozy! The tile-setter WAS drinking (he has apparently been in recovery but fell off the wagon ). Ironic that some commenters joked about that! He had missed a few days last week, and we'd wondered what was going on when he just no-showed - reportedly a first, according to Dan, our contractor (who, btw, also does a lot of the work, not solely contracting). It is my understanding Dan knew this, let him do the installation anyway because of a scheduling issue, and this is what happened. Unfortunately , I do pick up that he (Dan) had noticed on Sunday, when he did the grout, but perhaps hoped it wasn't too bad. (We are easy-to-please people, so I could see that!). Yesterday, of course, he avoided us; now we know he was dealing with the employee. Today, when he failed to show or call again, we called him
and, low and behold, he sent the same (now sober) tile-setter/employee over to "fix it" rather than come himself. We got right back and told him he should come also, that we needed to have a talk. He did come right away, then, but he never apologized or reassured us it would all be made right.....totally out of character!!! He seemed ashamed, like he can't handle mistakes (of course, I'm a therapist, so I am probably reading too much into it!) . He would barely look at us and was trying to pull up and realign black tiles, etc, to no avail because nothing was going to line up. The employee, just kneeled down shaking his head, like he knew it was futile. My husband finally said, "Look, just rip it up and do it correctly", Dan said "okay" and is out getting new tile as we speak. Mind you, we're business owners ourselves, so we understand that mistakes can be made. It's how one deals with them that's important to us. This is the first mistake we've had to deal with, and we have learned Dan doesn't deal with them well. It probably doesn't help that his friend and employee is impaired and he has to dance around that whole issue! Soooo, it looks like it will be fixed. Will sent pic when it is! Thanks again!!!!

Wow! But it explains a lot about the situation.

I would imagine that if the contractor knew his employee was drunk while doing the work that he's the one who is legally responsible for fixing it. He has no one but himself to blame, and hopefully won't be using that guy again.

What a horrible contractor story. Employees being intoxicated on the job means that he shouldn't only have to redo the floor but the contractor's license could be revoked for allowing the man to work despite his situation.

Soooo sorry this happened......and never expected this explanation, either. Glad to know it is being taken care of and do hope for a happy ending for everyone.

Hopefully it all ends well. Good Luck.

Good for you in getting to brass tacks on the expected result—glad to hear it is going to be fixed!

OOooohhh! Now the truth comes out! This brings back memories of a bad hiring decision I made. Lesson I learned-if a contractor shows up any time before happy hour and smells like beer, RUN THE OTHER WAY! It will be very costly to fix, and you have to hire someone else who you should have hired in the first place, even though his bid was higher.
Yeah, it's pretty hard to look someone in the eye when you knew better but thought it would be okay.
I had a drywall finisher show up around noon to give an estimate for finishing my new office space. He disqualified himself two ways: he had beer on his breath and never bothered to call me back.

Sorry that happened to you, take it as a learning experience. It's the GC's responsibility to correct this.

Its definitely the contractor's fault. Not sure who he uses to do the tile installation, but there should have been someone on site to supervise and make sure that everything was going accordingly.

We already know who...it was a drunk guy.

My hubby called a painter about doing some work and had to leave a message on the guy's answering machine. Later that night, like in the wee hours of morning, our phone kept ringing with some angry dude asking me why I was calling him. I kept explaining I wasn't calling him, he was calling me. I think he called us like seven times.....obviously drunk.

We never did get a call back from the painter. Didn't pursue him!

Glad to hear he's correcting that installation. What a mess! Looking forward to pics...

It is easier to do it right the first time, hopefully the installer will pay more attention to detail next time. So sorry you have to be his education...

Not if you have been drinking...

Amazing story. Glad it's being ripped put and redone. I've seen so many horrid tile jobs on Houzz where owners cave to the contractor.

I've always done my own tiling, as sick of it as I am! It's either beyond my budget or I can't trust - witness this mess. Heck, I could have done that job correctly on a weekend. And I'm a 60-year old woman. And contracting is not my line of work. I did a penny floor once, about this size. It was not difficult. Of course, I wasn't drinking.......

Never leave an installer alone. Ok so your husband was there. Then never leave your husband with an installer. It must be redone. It is NOT correct.

I felt, and still feel, the "why" of the installer's work was irrelevant to your original question. But I'm truly sorry to hear the gentleman relapsed and hope this is a turning point in his recovery. Stranger things have happened.

Your floor will be darling once it's "straightened out". Oops, sorry, darn sense of humor!

Now, where did I put that chicken!?!

"Never leave an installer alone."
Are you kidding me? What are we, six years old? Some people tend to perform at the low level of expectations of their employer. If a customer can't trust me with their house key and trust that I can do my job without oversight, we need to part ways. Trust is a mutual thing. I've heard some customers need "oversight" when it comes to paying the agreed - upon invoice.

River - I agree that a professional installer should not need to be supervised BUT unfortunately communication issues , language issues and some cowboys out there mean that most of us have to keep an eye on things.
We had our bathroom done while away on holidays and I did detailed drawings on everything I wanted, as the tile pattern was complicated. The tiler did an amazing job and still uses our bathroom photos for his business many years later.
Communication is key - and that means both the installer and the client need to be clear on the project.

"Communication is key," but I've found that those at a level of 1000 words a day glaze over when faced with those of us using 6000 words a day. (Throw in schematics and they go full tilt.)

@River -- I get the impression you're a 6000er. ;)

I think anyone who installs penny tiles would know not much communication needed here. I bet a 3rd grader would know they went in evenly spaced.

Yes I agree grobby- but the third grader would not be drunk. The penny tiles probably were all moving and spinning for this installer!

The topic is morphing to the question of how to ensure a quality outcome. I hesitate to take it farther down that road, but suggest that a second pair of eyes is just plain good sense in every project (and every line of work). Whether that is called supervision, clarification, curiosity, quality assessment, inspection, coaching, even appreciative inquiry.

I agree with River that trust is critical, and it comes to those who deliver as River states, but blind trust is just not on. (That goes for EVERY profession—in my other world I consult in and have led organisations large and small and will observe that the common denominator is people—humans who may be spectacularly gifted, or not, committed, or not, capable, or not, and sometimes drunk! I've found syringes on projects as well as beer cans and found that organisations are defensive, self-protective systems — perhaps out of fear of litigation— but also as a factor of human nature).

Communication really is key...and that includes finding the approach that is effective for all and supports learning after the fact (and, if necessary, resolution through review of evidence).

If a firm is not interested in keeping an evidence base that allows post project review to determine what went right, what went wrong and how we can improve, then I recommend finding another line of work. (Let me know what line of work does not rely on continuous improvement from lessons learned.)

Does establishing an evidence base to ground good decisions scare the #)(*$& out of people? Yep. Do they end up finding more value than fear? Often, unless they prefer not to be at the top of their quality game.

A very common problem arises from our natural desire to want to hire/work with people we like and to use social skills and good manners to foster a relationship that masks the professional aspect with a superficial aspect of "friendliness".

Sometimes we overlook clues that an intervention or clarification—or correction— is required. As PROs, we are still people, but should not be offended, much less hurt, when a client asks for verification, tries to ensure his/her projects goes the way they think it should (sometimes we have to help them understand aspects they don't get).

It is my nature to want to be liked, but I must separate that aspect from professional conduct in relation to the effort I put in, the oral and written communications, means to present and verify agreement on ideas. I'm able to be friendly and, usually, maintain relationship even when I need to draw a line or part company on work that does not meet the required standard. But it is the ability to understand,see and aim for that standard that matters.

It's when we have proven ourselves, or learn that a client cannot to overcome fears to let us do our work to the best of our ability, that I can be disappointed. It is important, as PROs, to remember that this is more likely a reflection of history than a considered assessment in the moment. I would be very surprised if lmmmss would simply go on trust after this experience and the next contractor should certainly expect to be "supervised"!

Ok, I admit it - the topic pushes my 6000 word button ;-) Sorry! And still glad that tile will be fixed!

@John-Far more eloquently spoken than I did. I do think I need to clarify something on the "oversight". There is a huge difference between the tradesman and customer keeping one another up to speed and the dreaded "helicopter customer" who feels the need to hover over the tradesman because he/ she "knows he's going to mess it up".

In defense of the contractor I have gotten tile from HD that did not truly repeat. I first thought that the tile setter used a part of a sheet to go to the next row but that would not account for the error. Neither flipping the top or bottom would give this error. This does not account for the contractor missing the pattern mismatch. He should have put the bad aside and only put in the good tiles.

Well, the floor needs to come up and get redone. I tend to stay away from small dots and patterns, since they tend to be too stressful to the eye, nonetheless, unless your tile installer was a Professional, he most likely took the tiles out of the box and installed them without regard to the pattern, which gives this tile the peculiar look. Even though the tiles most likely were 12x12, what I believe he did wrong, was to move the tiles around instead of just taking them out of the boxes and lined them up. Remember, you always get what you pay for and this is an unfortunate mistake, which I dont believe neither you nor your husband would have noticed until the job was completed.

In my response on your penny tile floor I wasn't sure if you didn't like the look of penny tile or the color of the grout. After being beat up so bad I went home to my computer (instead of my smart phone) to zoom in on the floor of the photo you sent. It is obvious that when looking closely the many, many, many black dots do not line up. I should have not commented if I couldn't see what the problem was. I really did think your concern was the amount of grout to take care of when using penny tile. I have heard this complaint before from people who use penny tile, how quickly it gets dirty. I viewed your photos while having lunch on a smart phone- they don't get very large.

It's okay @Toupin- I had your back.

Hey, All! I just wanted to share a pic of the floor now. I was waiting to put a pic of the completed decorated bathroom, which I am still working on, but wanted to go ahead and share the good news that I have a floor I love. This pic was taken about a week after my last conversation here. We sat down with both our contractor and his associate (who did the tile) and had a really good conversation. As I'd said before, this contractor and this man had done a great job for us until this point, close to 100K worth of work. We wanted to give him a chance to redeem himself, which he did. We used the same tile-setter! As you can see, I choose a different tile, which I actually like better ... couldn't get that wonky penny-tile image out of my head! All is good. I'm gathering decorative items now...the fun part! Maybe I'll post a final pic soon! Thx again for all your help and a great conversation! Lynn

LOVE happy endings and this is one of those! Would love to see the room when the decor is in place.

Fantastic outcome! Looks great

All done!!! Glad that old bath and the wonky floor woes are finally history! Thanks for your help in the process! Lynn

yay! Looks great!

Thanks for posting the "after" pictures!

Not good...did home depot do this job as well...if they did i believe they will redo it...if not don't go back to them at all. Get a real pro to design it and specify the tile and then a real pro to install it. We do this and can help with design...and if you live in Southern CA I can recommend a contractor!

It helps to actually read the thread.

Hi---it turned out Great! Everything happens for a reason and I think others will agree, this design is better than what you had originally chosen... :) Fabulous!

Nice to hear everything worked out...and nobody lost his head.

It looks great ,enjoy :)

I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to say how happy I am for you this was fixed!

When I have someone working on my house, it's a balancing act. I don't "hover", but I don't go away for the weekend assuming everything will be exactly as I planned either.

There are times to pause during every project...where you stop, inspect, either agree or disagree with this latest step, then proceed.

IMO...just the smart way to go..