The sign which listed 5 reasons tombuy organic food neglicted to menthiob the most important sixth reason.

6- Buy organic so we can grap more money from your pocket.

It isa scam.

@foolish:

Really, organic costs more where you live? Not true where I live.

Here the local stuff is pretty much all organic, and the non-organic stuff is shipped in from far away. So even if they have cheaper/illegal labor, the freight costs are added on. Some organic food is cheaper than non-organic, and some is the other way around. It's a toss-up overall.

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That article doesn't cover any of my reasons :).

Sure, organic stuff often has a lot more flavor. But for vegies I think that's more often a function of being fresh and local, rather than growing method. (Animal products are another story -- once you've had organic meat or milk the other stuff tastes terrible!)

I buy organic mainly to support the local economy, regional food independence / security, and soil conservation. I also like not wasting greenhouse gasses on transporting food, not polluting water, not exposing farmworkers to toxins, etc., etc.

I do agree that the sign, and most of the arguments it makes, are reeeeeeaallly stupid. But that does not mean there are not any good reasons.

Supporting something you morally or ethically feel like supporting is generally a good enough reason when the end-result is the same....apple vs apple...tomato vs tomato...etc.

While I don't buy into the "tastes better" or "more nutritious" arguments...supporting something you believe in carries a lot of weight.

Reduced exposure to pesticides/herbicides are also a plus...even if the factor of exposure is rather minimal if you wash your produce.

Pesticides exposure is rather minimal with washing? You should be so lucky that your veggies growers are not using systemic absorbing pesticides( you really sure they aren't?).

If anyone is using a systemic pesticide or herbicide on their veggies they aren't growing according to the label or the law if they're found in a concentration. I guess this may be "gray area" for RU-Resistant sweet corn, though.

While systemics are used in vegetable cropping systems, most are used before cropping or well before fruiting/harvest period to give a plant's metabolism time to break them down or otherwise make them unavailable. Time of application is very important.

Also, I wash every piece of produce I buy...be it organic or conventional.

This post was edited by nc-crn on Fri, Mar 29, 13 at 22:38

I wash produce, too, though it's more for the guy in the produce aisle who sneezed on it or the toddler who drooled on it, if you know what I mean.

I know it's standard advice, but does washing really make any difference for herbicides and pesticides? Is there really stuff that sticks on through all the harvesting, packing, transport, hosing down at the store, etc. -- but rinses off in my sink?

I'd wash any tree fruit, especially (apples, peaches, etc)...and potatoes. They tend to see a lot of pesticide/herbicide action. Potatoes are generally harvested after using a chemical defoliant to kill the tops.

It's generally a good idea to add "greens" to this list...anything that's harvested whole...from lettuce to spinach to celery, etc. They've spent their entire lives in the field and you're harvesting the whole plant.

Washing grapes is also a good idea...they get sprayed with a lot of things...from pesticides to herbicides to various growth regulating hormones.

This post was edited by nc-crn on Fri, Mar 29, 13 at 22:52

Organic is a government label, and folks jump through hoops to be able to put that on their products. Its does not mean as much as folks think. It means no pestisides and herbisides were used in the feed on animals. But that does not mean that the feed the animals get is healthy for that animal.

I raise my buffalo on grass, with little to no grain. Since the meat is sold at the farm, folks get to see how the animals are raised. If I fed the animals organic grain - that does not mean they should be eating grain - grassfed meats are much healthier.

Some eggs are being marketed that the hens are fed an all veg diet. Chickens eat bugs, grasshoppers and worms as well as grass when free range. Those eggs produced in a pen with chickens fed an all grain type diet may be organic, but they do not have the nutritional value that free range chickens produce.

Veggies grown on depleted soils may also be 'organic' but lacking in nutrition. Grow your own foods or buy as much as possible from folks growing in harmony with nature will give you the best foods. I don't pay attention to 'organic' labels as they really do cost more in the stores and I'm not sure they are healthier.

Michael Pollan exposed Whole Foods as 'selling a good story', and to their credit, Whole Foods promised to do a better job of sourceing their products. Still, organic foods mass produced is not a whole lot different than other crops.

Here is a link that might be useful: Michael Pollan's article POWER STEER

My kind of thread!
I'm all for buying organic!

1. Organics foods has more nutrition-
False, while organic farmers tend to care for the soil better than conventional farmers, I still think they are just fertilizing with just NPK. I can't see the organic farmers shelling out big bucks for rock dust and trace minerals.. When in comes down to it, the farmers,whether organic or conventional, try to make the biggest profit possible - cheap fertilizer, expensive produce..

2. Organics foods don't have pesticides,etc..
Organic farmers probably spray just as much as conventional farmers, the difference is that theirs in "organic".. Does that mean organics pesticides,etc are good for our health -No, no pesticides or any sprays are good for y
Our health! For the farmers wallet- yes, for our health, don't think so..

3. Organic food taste better.
The taste of plants comes from when it is harvested and the nourishment in the soil... The majority of organic, as well as conventional produce is picked unripe due to shelf life etc.. Again comes down to money, not health.. That being said I can't see how conventional sprays taste good, I do think organic food taste better.. Again depends on ripeness, soil,etc..

4. You can just rinse pesticides and other sprays off produce.
I find this hard to believe.. The farmers use sprays that stick to the produce without being washed off by rain, if everytime is rained they would have to go out there and spray they would be taking a big hit to the wallet! If the sprays are made to be rain resistant, how do you plan on washing it? With special vege wash that claims to remove pesticides? I wonder how safe thT vege wash really is and how much pesticides your really removing.. I personally peel on my fruits I can whether organic/vege.. I peel organic apples, that had to remove most pestices compared to washing.. With citrus,etc you dont eat the peel, so I'm not concerned.. Grapes and leafy greens, I try not to buy.. I forage for all my greens..

I personally support organic because I think it's better for the environment, and possibly better for our health.. I don't think it is any many nutritious, but I do think it has safer pesticides,etc.. Not that any of them is safe in my eyes..

Now another thing is how when people see the OMRI organic label and they think it's so healthy.. You have to use common sense.. Organic milk is not healthy, I don't care what someone brainwashes you, whether it is organic or not.. We are not cows we shouldn't be sucking on a cows utter..

Now whoever says organics are too expensive, I can afford them.. I'm sorry but I can not stand when people say that.. In the stores people are buying a package of animal flesh and telling me that organics are expensive.. Drop the meat and you can get all the organics you want! Even if you aren't eating expensive meat.. Look at a bag of organic apples Vs conventional apples, at my stores they are the sameexact price for the same quantity! There is not difference.. Now some places want $5 for a organic bell pepper which is nuts, I think that's where people get the "expensive organics" from but. you have to know where to shop.. Some things are cheaper organic! It's all about finding good places to shop!

When it comes down to it - nobody is looking out for your health - whether it be the organic farmer, the FDA, pharmaceuticals, etc, it is all a money game.. Follow the money and you'll learn real quick.. The only way you can insure quality, safe food is to grow your own..

Health be with you,
Joe

Another thing is that they can label something organic even though they wash/spray it with tap water,etc.. When I used I go to whole foods they had all the organics on top so the conventional produce wouldn't drip on the organics.. But they didn't even think about spraying the produce with all kinds of crap in the tap water! I brought that to their attention and they didn't say to much! So much for organic huh!

One thing tha really appeals to me is that organics are not irradiated,etc..

I find this hard to believe.. The farmers use sprays that stick to the produce without being washed off by rain, if everytime is rained they would have to go out there and spray they would be taking a big hit to the wallet! If the sprays are made to be rain resistant, how do you plan on washing it? With special vege wash that claims to remove pesticides? I wonder how safe thT vege wash really is and how much pesticides your really removing.. I personally peel on my fruits I can whether organic/vege.. I peel organic apples, that had to remove most pestices compared to washing.. With citrus,etc you dont eat the peel, so I'm not concerned.. Grapes and leafy greens, I try not to buy.. I forage for all my greens..

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That is not true all insect spray production are strictly regulated by the the Department of agriculture. As you said the farmers spray only stuff which is not washed by the rain they have to go buy it from Mexico because nobody sell it in US.
As for people who said organic is not expensive they should go visit the Whole Food Store. Don't get scared looking at the prices. Item like fresh tomatoes sells at 300% more than the other non-organic stores. Again Organic is a marketing scheme and it sells. With the same token in Marketing they say sex sells.

nc, the newer forms of imidacloprid can be used up to 7 days before harvest on leafy greens. Goog the label for Pravado insecticide, it's all there, including the long list of food crops upon which it can be used. Ditto on soil-applied Admire, and then there are the seed soaks that have been found to be lethal to birds, but that's another story.

Systemic pesticides in food crops are way more common than you think.

Here is a link that might be useful: systemic pesticides in leafy greens

Lots of luck on the foraging, Joe. I find gardening to be much more productive and enjoyable. Not only that, but the chickens and buffalo are much more effective foragers and they love doing it. So much so, that they produce enough excess meat and eggs to not only feed me but lots of other folks as well. Sale of those products provides the income to sustain me, the farm and the animals. Its a symbiotic relationship and pretty easy on the environment as well.

Its sad that people can be so afraid of nasty stuff ON food that they would avoid the nutritious goodness IN the foods. I have grapes virtually every day for breakfast and consider myself fortunate to live in a time and place where that is possible. And I LOVE dairy, especially cheese and ice cream.

I walk into a produce section of the grocery store and think I'm in the garden of eden, surrounded by an unbelieveable treasure of fresh fruits and veggies. There is not one food in those bins that I believe would do me more harm than good now or in the future.

I garden because I love to see things grow and to feast on the freshness, flavor and goodness that springs from the soil.

My greatest sin to my body is 'over-indulgence', but it is a problem I guiltily live with. I have no patience for anxiety over the foods I love to eat. Food is one of my favorite pleasures at this stage in my life and I hope to continue to enjoy it well into my old age.

Foraging, giggle. Just drove through a cooke cutter subdivision, where there was not a plant growing that had not been approved by the HOA. Sad.
I think a lot of the concept of organic is it is not mass produced, so grown in someones back yard. Therefore it tastes better. Eggs and beef on the other hand make me sad for people that don't know any different.

Systemic pesticides in food are used, but a lot of the newer formulations "break down" a whole lot quicker...and many aren't used so close to harvest even though they're approved...especially for hand-picked stuff that needs workers in the fields. The biggest issue I've seen with their use close to harvest time is beans and celery.

Imidacloprid, in particular, breaks down really quickly in light/water and plant tissues (days)...though it can persist in sub-surface soils for 100s of days. That said, no plant is a complete filter...you're most likely going to find residues in the plants even if they're extremely small amounts or not located to the fruiting parts very easily.

Many farmers are taking care of pest issues before/at initial fruiting time. Protecting the harvest is a lot more important than waiting...though they will use formulations that are approved if there's an issue.

"I'd wash any tree fruit, especially (apples, peaches, etc)...and potatoes. They tend to see a lot of pesticide/herbicide action. Potatoes are generally harvested after using a chemical defoliant to kill the tops."

If they use a chemical defoliant on the potatoes, how do they get the next crop to grow. They couldn't even get a green manure crop to grow after that. I am just curious. Maybe I don't understand, but it would seem that way.

"If they use a chemical defoliant on the potatoes, how do they get the next crop to grow."

Many/most agriculture chemicals break down into ineffective or inert levels a lot quicker than some believe.

The defoliants are applied to make digging the potatoes easier for machinery.

The most commonly used potato defoliant...Carfentrazone...breaks down rather quickly even in residual/dead leaf litter (which is "tilled" in...kinda...when the potatoes are dug). It's "half life" is less than a week in ideal conditions (warmth and microbial action, mostly).

The only thing the farmers are trying to do is kill the tops...not long-term weed suppression.

This post was edited by nc-crn on Sun, Mar 31, 13 at 16:09