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Help with container raspberries

19 years ago

I have two fall gold raspberry plants in containers on my front porch. They are planted with several strawberries. One plant is new this year and the other plant is one I overwintered from last year. They both came up fine, but are now having issues that I can't figure out.

I had trouble with root rot this spring in some other containers so when they began showing problems I replaced the potting soil in both containers.

They had an infestation of a web building caterpillar that I ended up using insecticide to get rid of.

It has also been really cool here with a max temp in the mid 80's.

I fertilize once a week with liquid Algoflash (6-6-6). I also have a small amount of slow release fertilizer in the soil.

I am not sure if this is a watering problem, a nutrient deficiency, or something else. Any ideas?

Container 1: Second year plant

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Container 2: First year plant

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TIA!

Comments (7)

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I really don't know what the problem is, sorry. I haven't ever grown raspberries in containers, but I do have a raspberry patch in the ground.

    All I can tell you is that sometimes, some of the plants experience leaf browning like what your pic shows.

    I don't know the cause of it and it's not consistent from year to year. Because I have a patch rather than a more limited number of plants I don't worry about it. *Most* of the time the condition clears and the canes do bear fruit.

    Check for pests, try to maintain a consistent level of moisture (as best you can, I know that's not always easy) and fertilize moderately. That's about all you can do.

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I don't have experience with raspberries, either. Can we have a few shots of the two entire plants on location as well - to get a perspective and compare where the marginal necrosis is mostly located and the overall looks the plants in the planters?

    How soon after your repotted, did you see the browning (or any changes)? Did you notice how the leave scorching pattern generally started (bottom or top growth first)?

    What is the sun exposure (hrs per day)?

    How have you been watering these plants usually (frequency per week)? Can you water generously and deeply at each watering with reasonably good drainage?

    Are the strawberries in the same planter doing well?

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Okay, I had to go take a bunch of pictures before I could respond.

    "How soon after your repotted, did you see the browning (or any changes)?"

    I noticed the problems before I repotted, but at that stage they were very minor compared to now. Here is a photo of container #2 the day I replanted it.
    {{gwi:37225}}
    From the picture it almost looks like a healthy plant, but when you zoom in...
    {{gwi:37227}}
    You can see why I was concerned. The edges were already starting to burn and curl. Now this was newly bought and planted so I wasn't too concerned yet especially since container #1 was doing fairly well.
    {{gwi:37229}}
    Except for the discoloring of the leaves.
    {{gwi:37221}}
    I was still thinking it was because the soil was too wet and they might be having root rot problems. However, after replanting they continued to worsen and both plants were being affected equally.

    "Did you notice how the leave scorching pattern generally started (bottom or top growth first)?"

    I am not sure where it started. I was getting curling of the newer leaves, but scorching of the older ones.
    {{gwi:37230}}
    From what I can tell it started from the older leaves and then worked it's way up. But then again...
    {{gwi:37231}}
    This shows some new growth that died off from the newest leaves and is working its way down. That is why I am so confused.

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    (Continued from above)

    Here are a few more shots of the problems I am seeing.
    {{gwi:37232}}
    {{gwi:37233}}
    And I have had to trim container #2 down quite a bit.
    {{gwi:37234}}

    The growth of both plants seems to have slowed way down ever since I noticed the scorching. However, my examination of the plants today showed some new growth on both plants that is doing well and is scorch free. (Container #1)
    {{gwi:37235}}
    Container #2:
    {{gwi:37236}}

    "What is the sun exposure (hrs per day)?"
    They get direct sun from about noon until 8:30 when the sun goes down.

    "How have you been watering these plants usually (frequency per week)? Can you water generously and deeply at each watering with reasonably good drainage?"
    I water about once or twice a week but they also get any rain that happens to fall. When I replanted them, we were getting heavy rain every day, so I wasn't watering at all, but we have not been getting much rain since then. I always water deeply and they should be draining well (I hope).

    "Are the strawberries in the same planter doing well?"
    When I replanted the containers, the strawberries were showing signs of browning as well. That is why I was initially concerned with root rot. Since replanting they seem to be doing well, however, they are not doing nearly as well as strawberries in another container (the red container).
    {{gwi:37237}}
    {{gwi:37238}}

    I hope that helps answer some questions. Container #2, the new plant, is beginning to flower and fruit right now so it can't be doing too horribly. I'm just hoping for the best...

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Fallgold turns out to be an interesting raspberry cultivar.

    Without knowing which plant(s) you sprayed insecticide on and when with respect to the observed pathology, I would say the yellowing, the leaf burn and browning could be caused by chemical damage either from earlier use of insecticide or chloride sensitivity from fertilizers, the beginning of potassium (and magnesium and manganese) deficiencies, poor soil drainage and root growth and root damage, or a combination of these factors. The reduced plant growth and wilting of young tips are more likely related to insufficient soil drainage needed by Fallgold and root damage. Since the causes of plant pathology cannot be differentiated by symptoms alone most of the time, you will have to research and compare the written descriptions and images, or use the diagnostic tool referenced below to ascertain the definitive problems because you have more complete information on the growing conditions and history with these plants and can observe the progression of the symptoms better than anyone.

    Incidentally, I would repot the strawberries separately without the Fallgold. Many horticultural specialists, including the fruit guide published by Cornell Cooperative Extension suggests, "Do not plant brambles in a site where strawberries or plants in the tomato family (including potatoes, peppers, and eggplants) have been grown" to avoid verticillium wilt (same guidelines for strawberries from other expert sources as well). You may be using a sterile potting mix growing your Fallgold and strawberries together for the first time which does reduce the crop loss potential somewhat. However, verticillium wilt can still happen at any time and because soil-borne fungus Verticillium also can persist in the soil for many years, it may be best not to growth them together even in sterile potting mix.

    I would say since mitigating the causes related to cane blight and root rot at this stage would be the least detrimental to your plants and most productive in maximizing root health and growth with the information/photos given from my partially informed perspective, I would aim at improving soil drainage first by amending the potting soil to increase the porosity or letting potting mix dry out more between watering either by protecting the planters from rain temporarily or in the near future. If similar leave yellowing, browning, curling, and death repeat themselves and the vitality of the raspberries dose not rebound with improved root health from the amended potting mix, it makes sense then to work on resolving other possible causes, such as chemical injuries and mineral deficiencies.

    IMAGES OF COMMON DISEASES IN RASPBERRIES

    See images of root rots in raspberries at:
    http://plant-disease.ippc.orst.edu/plant_images/drroot6.jpg and
    http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/comhort/nooksack/ipmweb/Disease_Sheet_5.html.

    Read and see images of leaf burn caused by insecticides and fertilizers, http://www.hort.cornell.edu/department/faculty/pritts/BerryDoc/raspberry/leavesstems/Raspbrowning.htm

    Since two identical plant variety exhibit possible symptoms of either blight and root damage from too much moisture or leaf burn caused by insecticide and fertilizers with the first year plant affected more severely than the second year Fallgold, how do these two plants differ in growing conditions, such as potting mix, rain/water, fertilizing rate, or plant care if any? In addition, are there differences or variations in these factors as compared to a third planter, the red container, where strawberries are thriving?

    CONTAINER #2, this years Fallgold

    I know you mentioned (along with your photos) that the leaf curl and marginal necrosis got worse after you repotted them, but repotting did not rule out the continuation of wet feet or further root damage if enhanced drainage of the growing medium or increased oxygen uptake by the roots did not take place or significantly counter the added wet and cooler growing conditions. Did you also amend the potting mix to increase the porosity and drainage when you repotted the raspberries?

    Raspberries require well-drained soil which is especially essential to the Fallgold cultivar, because it is intolerant of wet soils. If the root rot has not affected all the roots (appears to be true in your case), itÂs possible that without amending your potting mix, the problems of rot, leaf curl, and marginal necrosis will disappear on their own and the plant will rebound once you remove the damaged leaves and just shield the planters from excessive rain/water temporarily and by allowing the soil to dry out sufficiently in between watering. On the other hand, since symptoms of poor soil drainage and root rots have had happened a few time, these are signs that it may be worth your effort (and for the plants) to amend the potting mix to increase the needed drainage and aeration of the potting mix with additional perlite, pinebark, Turface, or other soil conditioners in buffering the effects of any recent and future unusual precipitation and temperature or any less than optimal drainage before blossoming and fruiting come into full force. If you are watering 2x per week or less with the rain now with the current potting mix, try to increase the porosity of the mix to maybe watering every other day at a minimum, for example, and then bserve the effects or changes in the raspberries. Increase the drainage of your potting mix may also eliminate the presence of a perched water table on the lower part of the planter (see threads of Al explaining the physics of it) causing sufficient waterlog that can lead to poor root health, rot, and eventual root death. Watering more often will also increase fresh supplies of oxygen to the roots for good root growth and enhanced plant vitality in addition to providing the additional water needed in the upcoming blossoming and fruiting growth stages.

    Whatever mix you used in the red container (with the strawberries), maybe you can reproduce it to grow your Fallgold, that is assuming the red container of strawberries also gets similar watering, care, and amount of rain as your Fallgold. In fact, the strawberries in that red container look a little dehydrated from the last photo though the leaves look very healthy; they look like they are wilting a bit (or is that leaf curl canÂt be sure from looking at the pictures).

    CONTAINER #1, second year Fallgold

    Though with possibly better root helath than the first year Fallgold, this Fallgold may still suffer from poor root health or damage. I donÂt think the second-year Fallgold is diseased with viral infection or pests. On the other hand, I canÂt be certain of that by looking at the pictures as the second year Fallgold seems to have fairly healthy flat unblemished leaves in one picture but then the overall leave colors and shapes arenÂt ideal nor are they flat in the final picture. Thus, Tomato Ringspot Virus and potato leafhopper damage are possibilities based on the leaf discoloration, possible yellow rings and/or line patterns on the leaves, and overall color and growth. Marginal yellowing and downward leaf curl could be potato leafhopper damage. See infected raspberry images at:
    Figure 2- Potato Leafhopper, http://apps.omafra.gov.on.ca/scripts/english/crops/agriphone/article.asp?ID=1312

    According to the Cooperative Extension Service from University of Minnesota, "Tomato ringspot virus is carried to healthy plants through the soil by the root feeding dagger nematode (Xiphinema sp.). Yellow rings, line patterns, or veinal chlorosis commonly appear on the leaves of red raspberry plants. However, new leaves are often void of symptoms. Severely infected plants may appear stunted, yield crumbly fruit, produce poor yields, and/or show a reduction in plant health. Tomato ringspot virus can also be dispersed through infected seed." Source: Raspberry Diseases," University of Minnesota, http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/DG1152.html

    In general, there is little that can be done to manage a viral infection, and the viral infection often has to be confirmed and tested by a lab. Therefore, I wouldnÂt worry about them for now other than providing improved soil drainage to your raspberries first.

    REDUCED VIGOR OF BOTH PLANTS

    The cause of decline in vigor can be caused by virus infection, root damage, nutrient deficiency, and soil compaction. However, once your raspberries have healthier roots and root growth with an increased air-to-moisture ratio, soil drainage, and porosity of the growing media, you would automatically increase the vitality of the plant and eliminated most, if not all four, factors causing reduced growth. Whatever is the actual cause attributed to the pathology, youÂll find most of the browning, yellowing, slow growth, and leave scorch will disappear if you can ensure good root health through improved soil drainage by shielding the planters from receiving and retaining uncalculated precipitation for a long period of time.

    CANE WILTING & COLLAPSING

    These can be symptoms root rot, winter injury, cane borers, and spur blight. Raspberry cane borers have been reported in Colorado. Source: Missouri Botanical Garden on Goldfall, http://www.mobot.org/gardeninghelp/plantfinder/Plant.asp?Code=W520

    See images of affected raspberries at CornellÂs Raspberry Diagnostic Tool, http://www.hort.cornell.edu/department/faculty/pritts/BerryDoc/raspberry/caneslaterals/Rwilting.htm

    Let us know what is true and works in your case and if the vitality of your raspberries has improved.

    Enjoy your berries and have fun caring for them.

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    WOW, Legacy! Thank you so much for your well thought out and researched answer. You just inspired me to do what I had been avoiding: I will repot them again to help drainage.

    I had just discovered Al's mix a day or two before I repotted the raspberries, but I didn't understand it very well and I only added pine bark to the regular potting mix. Obviously this was not enough and I will have to repot them into his actual mix (which I have subsequently figured out and recreated).

    For a little while I thought it was a ph imbalance due to the pine bark, but I tested it yesterday and found the ph to be on the low end of the acceptable range for raspberries.

    I will repot them today and keep you updated on their condition. I will also check out your links and pictures and see if I can't find any other culprits.

    Thank you again!

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    You are welcome. I was also thinking that your Fallgold looked overpotted in the current containers even if they have deep, mature, and large root system or if they are fast-growing. Overpotting often can be a contributory factor to root rot, plant diseases, and slow growth in general. So, I searched the Internet and sure enough, raspberries have shallow root system like strawberries. Thus, I would repot them in smaller pots: 3, 5, or up to 7 gallons (for mature plants) max. Cornell has a greenhouse raspberry research program, and they grow their raspberries in 7-gallon pots, and though they may not be Fallgold, they are much bigger plants than yours. If you want to use the same containers you are currently using, you should either make the current planter smaller by double potting (container w/in a container) or make the potting mix exceptionally porous and dry to counter the under-uterlized and excess retained moisture effect associated with overpotting.

    I considered the pH and didn't think pH was an issue in your case but fungal infections and root damage (rots) were the primary problems as a result of excess moisture, low temperature, poor soil drainage, and overpotting (yellowing, wilting, marginal necrosis, and stunted growth) but FYI: The ideal pH for growing raspberries is 5.5-6.5 given a 0.5 up/down variation. Error on the acidic side is better for raspberries (and most plants).

    One more thing about growing raspberries: avoid using fertilizers with chlorides.

    See the relevant pages on horticulture guidelines and the potting mix used here, Establishing Container Raspberry Plants. The link to the entire raspberry production guide is at, Greenhouse Raspberries .

    Few other helpful respberry references for home production:
    Growing Brambles in the Home Garden , Cornell and
    Guidelines for Greenhouse Raspberry Production, UMASS

    No pressure - but I can see those golden berries already and that you are on your way to be an expert raspberry grower :)