Bitterness is characteristic of chicory. It's considered a desireable trait. Maybe a lettuce would suit you better.

Jim

Radicchios or Frisee type endives added to supermarket bagged salad mixes in the USA are mildly bitter (for a chicory), and OK for me. I want a loose leaf chicory, or a stem chicory, that is just as mild.

I assume that once upon a time, all lettuce was just as bitter as the most "vile" chicories. It took thousands of years to get mild lettuce! Why should I not assume that some chicory cultivars are partly down the same path?

I make a french (mustard) Vinaigrette to cut the bitterness of the chicory and the rest of the mesclun mix I grow. IMO, those strong tasting leafs need a hardy sauce to taste good. If you try to drink a full bodied red wine with a delicate fish, nothing will taste "correct" either.

Jimster wrote:

> Bitterness is characteristic of chicory.
> It's considered a desireable trait.

Do you work for Microsoft?

"It's not a [software] bug, it's a [software] feature!!"

LOL!!!

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I finally ordered two types: a "Red Grumulo" and an "Asparagus Catalogna" (ordered as "Galatina" but that name is not on the packet) which looks (from the pictures) to look a little like a bulb of fennel with giant succulent stems and tiny serrated swordlike leaves. While I grow most of my veggies in pots, these were just surface broadcast onto freshly raked compost in our yard and waterred in. That is the advantage of Italian seed companies...you get enough for heavy sowing. I got them from Harvest Moon, but the two other companies I mentioned above also have similar cultivars.

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Cooper Seeds sells a "forage chicory" for wildlife. Anyone try this out? Don't think that "forage" cultivars aren't good enough for people. "Tyfon" is a good "forage" brassica and I like to eat some "forage beets" ("mangels").

Ouch! Microsoft? Me? You really know how to hurt a guy, npthaskell. LOL

I just hope the breeders don't start breeding the bitterness out of chicory. We have chicken with no dark meat, acidless tomatoes, burpless cucumbers and fartless beans. Can't they leave anything alone?!?!?!?

Jim

npthaskell,

jimster is correct. Chicory is inherently bitter. It's a fact and the reason that those to enjoy it... do enjoy it. Just as endive and bitter melon (Momordica charantia) are literally appreciated and craved for their bitterness.

There is no reason to create any metaphor. If you don't like a bitter taste, then don't eat chicory or use less of what you have.

If you can find it, look for 'Sugarloaf', with a more "mild" bitter taste. Escarole is also a form of mild chicory.

> Chicory is inherently bitter

So is wild lettuce. That doesn't mean that I have to be content to grow bitter domesticated lettuce cultivars.

> If you don't like a bitter taste, then don't eat chicory...

Raddichio in bagged salad mix is within my tolerance range.

> I just hope the breeders don't start breeding the bitterness out of chicory.

I found that the mixed population from Wild Garden Seeds seemed to be more hardy than lettuce. Chicory's perennial nature also appeals to me; cut again to the max. So yeah... I have every right to pine for mild chicory!

> We have chicken with no dark meat...

I would prefer breeders focus on giant legs & thighs over giant breast. Chicken breast makes me gag; unless it is cooked just right which is very hard to do. Giant gizzards the size of baseballs would be cool.

> fartless beans

Sounds good to me.

I saw no responses to

>...or use less of what you have.

>If you can find it, look for 'Sugarloaf', with a more "mild" bitter taste. Escarole is also a form of mild chicory.

(Three possible solutions for you to utilize.)

*wink*

You can blanch chicoree by putting a black bucket over them for a few days. This makes them less bitter.

In a salad, mixed with orange slices, they are also much less bitter tasting. For some reason orange complements the slight bitterness perfectly, so that it is no longer noticeable. Especially with a creamy salad dressing.

A simple way of making them less bitter is soaking the leaves. Prepare for a salad, then place the cut leaves in cold water for half an hour and they will taste less bitter.

Lastly, add a spoon of sugar to a 2 parts oil, 1 part vinegar dressing. This works great with chicory and endive.

> I saw no responses to...

All of your effort & no response!
Sorry for being rude! ;-)

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> use less of what you have

I'm not using any right now!... except for rare use of supermarket bagged mixes. I'm planning ahead for winter...where in my climate... lettuce is shredded by high winds and hail.

I previously posted about the "permaculture" potential of chicory. Chicory also tends to have a long tap root while lettuce tends to have a shallow root system (but breeders are now trying to put back deep roots onto lettuce because of resistance to drought and corky root rot). I live on an old sand dune; a long taproot appeals to me for summer droughts and erosion control potential. I grow my lettuce in pots and pamper it; I'm thinking about chicory as something for the yard and as a back up if I run out of lettuce. Maybe as a decoy for the racoons and other varmits as well.

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> look for 'Sugarloaf', with a more "mild" bitter taste

I saw such a description in one catalog, while several other catalog descriptions were silent as to whether sugarloaf is more mild. Do you vouch for this from personal experience or did you just read the same catalog I did! ;-)

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> Escarole is also a form of mild chicory

Frisee endive as a crunchy componet of supermarket bagged salad mix is within my tolerance range.

For some reason I got it in my head that escarole & endive are more susceptible to winter rots than "true" chicories. That is why I haven't thought about them much. But I suppose that heading raddichio and sugarloaf chicories could have the same problem.

> place the cut leaves in cold water for half an hour and they will taste less bitter

OK; I'll have to give that a try

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> add a spoon of sugar to a 2 parts oil, 1 part vinegar dressing

Adding dressing to a restuarant salad or to a supermarket salad is OK; but it is a sin to add dressing to anything that you grow yourself! ;-)

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> orange complements the slight bitterness perfectly

Orange gives me a digestive upset. How about pink grapefruit? It doesn't give me problems, I like it, and it is slightly bitter anyway (even when sweet)!

When I grew some "Wild Garden Chicory" mixed gene pool, eating one leaf (they were huge) was within my tolerance range. There was a satisfaction after eating it. I've had some other bitter veggies which were just bitter, without any satisfaction afterwards (a red stemmed catalogna chicory, and a plantain [Plantago maritima, not the banana], come to mind).

But I don't think that I could tolerate eating two leaves of that chicory landrace. Slowly munching a single leaf of that chicory would make a good snack while sitting back, feet on a foot rest, watching TV a few hours after dinner... but a regular salad based on that chicory would be just too much.

I also wouldn't feel comfortable serving guests a salad with a lot of that chicory.

I'm not looking for a snacking chicory, but a mild backup for my lettuce after a winter storm.

Perennial cut & come again permacultural aspects; summer drought & landscaping erosion control arising from a deep root system; and tough wind resistant plants make chicory appealing.

Perhaps I should be considering Scorzonera; renowned for a deep root, and being a perennial with edible leaves and flowers (in addition to the root). Anyone here ever eat Scorzonera leaves? Are they cut and come again? Wind resistant?

I have never eaten Scorzonera root nor leaf. Can anyone describe the flavor?

Winter rots?

From frost? If this is the case, use a cold frame with straw mulch. A friend in Italy gave me some seed for Sugarloaf chicory a few years ago. It's best planted for fall harvest. I did not find it overly bitter but then taste is subjective. Different people have different sensitivities and I grow and love to eat bitter melon (Momordica Charantia).

> Winter rots? From frost?

No, excessive rain.

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OK, I'll look into sugarloaf.

I've been off the list for allmost a year; time to get active again.

I got Galatina Chicory from Gourmet Seed International last year. It is also called asparagus catalogna. It produced some stems late spring after overwintering. Since seed was sown a bit late in the season and the plot of land was new and not well fertilized; stem yield was low. The first season (Fall & Winter), serrated sword like leaves were bitter (beyond my tolerance range). Second season, young "asparagus" shoots were much more mild (still bitter, but within my tolerance range).

Secondary shoots are about 1/2 to 1 inch in diameter and emerge from a primary shoot about 2 inches in diameter. All shoots are hollow. If you harvest the primary shoot and turn upside down; it looks like an inflated glove: the primary shoot is the "palm" and secondary shoots are "fingers". This variety is also called "pine cone" chicory because this "glove" tends to coil around like a pine cone.

I love bitter greens, but Radicchio is just about at my limit. I still love it because of its rich flavor and crunchy texture. I add sugar to my homemade Italian dressing; it really brings out the great flavors.

I don't use Chicory in salads; it's too bitter for me. I do make a stew of Chicory, pork and lima beans that is wonderful. Chicory is not a good perennial for me in Portland. It bolts, sets seed, and dies.

It seems to me that Endive fits your original wish list perfectly: loose-leaf, mildly bitter. It's not perennial, but it's easy to grow.

In general, if the plants get good soil, cool weather and lots of water, you will get fast growth and milder flavor.

> Radicchio is just about at my limit

LOL, me too!

Galatina is just a little more bitter than radicchios found in supermarkets or mixed salad bags in the USA.

Since I grow about 200 radicchio heads a year, all for family use, let me give some advice.

1) There is little difference in bitterness amongst the named varieties. Probably the least bitter is a green spring radicchio, Grumolo, which has a non-bitter yellowish heart

2) I do not touch the radicchio until November 1, with a first frost date around Oct. 10. Radicchio starts peaking around Thanksgiving and is at its best around Xmas. The many frosts and freezes make it about as bitter as lettuce, as the plant produces antifreezing sugars. Radicchio before frost is inedible.

3) the elongated varieties, which look similar to endive but are red, are exquisite cut in half baked under aluminum foil, with olive oil and salt. There the bitterness plays very well against the oil and salt.

Thanksgiving is also the time when I cover the hoophouses to preserve it into March. It freezes solid many times, and the outer leaves rot, but I get veggies through the year.