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bakaroni

Failed experiments so far

16 years ago

So, we cleared out our backyard to grow vegetables. Many of them failed so far. Here's a list of them:

- cilantro: many attempts at growing them in containers and in the ground. They just don't seem to sprout. I'm going to try once more by breaking the seeds into halves.

- a variety of beets, radishes and spinach in the ground. they've barely grown, and leaves have a lot of holes in them. however, spinach in a container are growing just fine, no holes.

- transplanted a number of marigold plants into the ground. none of them thrived. they either remained the same size or simply withered away. leaves have holes in them.

- strawberries: in the ground. haven't thrived. they've remained more or less the same size even after 4-5 weeks.

- beans: tried sprouting them indoors in pots, but none sprouted. they all seemed to rot. however, seeds planted in the ground have sprouted.

-potatoes in containers: grew well, but later turned yellow and died. too much water, i think.

moderate successes so far:

- carrots in a container

- 5 tomatoes transplanted into the ground

- a couple of chillies in the ground haven't died yet.

- potatoes in the ground: growing more slowly, but they haven't died yet.

- fenugreek: the ones in a pot have done well. those in the ground are doing less well (again holes in their leaves).

- mustard: doing reasonably well.

- garlic in the ground: have sprouted and are growing.

- blueberries in the ground: aren't doing great, but they're not bad either.

- squash (zucchini and yellow) in the ground: they're doing well.

- mint: we planted a mint in the most undersireable spot in the backyard neglected it and abused it. it has grown very well. how i wish everything else were this low maintenance!

So, why is it that some plants do much better in containers than in the ground, particularly in terms of whether the leaves have holes or not? Does this mean that the healthier root system of the plants in containers somehow make them resist bugs that eat up the leaves? Or is it just that the bugs are soil bound and hence don't bother the plants in containers?

I live in the SF Bay Area, and while we do get a few really warm days, the weather has been variable in the last few years. But I'm thinking of more experiments:

- corn

- pole beans

- watermelon

- cucumber

Any suggestions?

Comments (16)

  • 16 years ago

    I also live in the bay area and the biggest problems i have with young plants, are snails, slugs, and earwigs..

    yep earwigs, they will make mincemeat out of the tender little leaves overnight.

    snails and slugs have an obvious solution.. earwigs are much harder to defeat. they move fast and cover a lot of ground in one night. best line of defense is to make sure you dont have any thing stacked around the house, they love to congregate there.

    ground vs containers depends on the size of the root system for that plant. containers definitley make it harder for bugs to get at them. but can have drainage issues and cause the plant to become root bound. if a plant dies in the container, you should pull the hole thing out and check the roots. if they are yellow, or brown, you have over watered them. if they roots are all bunched up, they they became rootbound. hope this helps. good luck

  • 16 years ago

    Generally, it looks like your soil might be N deficient. Or, it might be acid enough that beet and spinach struggle. Those holes are from bugs who crave the high carbs that a N deficient plant is producing. Solution: first check pH, then spread lime or spread urea, 1lb per 1000 sqft. Alternatively, 3-4 tons of compost per 1000 sqft will do. Beans in pots: probable overwatering. Solution: plant directly in the ground.
    Cilantro may sprout much later, or even next year. This year I did not plant any and I am overrrun.

  • 16 years ago

    I'm also in the bay area. Not sure about your micro cl., but this is too hot to sow cilantro in my garden unless I really baby them. Try sowing in Sept this fall using the wet paper towel. Search gardenweb and you'll find many different ways to do that.

    Our current weather is very favorable to plant the four warm weather crop you have in mind.

  • 16 years ago

    robertlovesmasters, I've got problems with snails, slugs, earwigs (possibly) and squirrels. Yes, the potatoes were overwatered.

    glib, my soil is slightly alkaline. As part of getting rid of the lawn, we brought in 3 cubic yards of compost for an area that's 4-500 sqft. But even I think there's a deficiency of N. So I got a bag of blood meal and have started using it. And coffee grounds. Maybe I need to use more of both of them.

  • 16 years ago

    If it is slightly alkaline then I agree, you have poor N. Fixing the N (perhaps with something that works faster than blood meal) will solve a majority of your problems.

  • 16 years ago

    Too late for this year but I seriously suggest you have a soil analysis done, one that will check the pH, N/P/K/Ca levels, the levels of several micronutrients, the Cation Exchange Capacity and other factors. They all play together. I had some spots in my garden where the N-P-K-Ca and most of the micronutrients were great but the CEC was less than 10. It was like having a buffet of food on the table but no way to get it into my mouth!

    I used 4 yards of compost for 168 sq. ft. and it was only about six inches deep in a raised bed I did this year.

    One other thing I have learned: plants are not some babies that need a "mother hen" looking over them 24/7. If they are not wilting, they don't need water. They need very little fertilizer - I spread 18 pounds over 900 square feet last year and that was all they got, except for a row of green beans (second planting) that also got about a half a cup of compost tea. They may like to be talked to each day and told how great they look and how well they are growing but it isn't necessary.

    Mike

  • 16 years ago

    18 pounds on 900 sqft! that is a huge amount!

  • 16 years ago

    >> 18 pounds on 900 sq ft! that is a huge amount! Huh? That's less than 900 pounds per acre. We used close to 3000 pounds per acre when we raised tobacco, corn, beans, tomatoes, etc. But let's say we go with 900 pounds per acre, that's a whopping .02 pounds or .00125 ounces per square foot. Or have I seriously screwed up my math?

    Mike

  • 16 years ago

    "that's a whopping .02 pounds or .00125 ounces per square foot"

    Mike,
    You mean 0.32 oz, right? :)

    Apart from that, it all works out, although I had to convert everything to metric and back again.

  • 16 years ago

    18 lbs is only 1 lb per 50sq ft. This year I have used 1 lb per 19.2 sq ft and the season is not over yet.

  • 16 years ago

    900 divided by 43,000 equals .021 pounds per square foot.

    .021 divided by 16 equals .0013

    If you use 43,650 sq. ft. per acre, my math "should" be very close - I hope!

    Mike

  • 16 years ago

    I use 2 lbs of urea for 1320 sqft (of which about 1000 are in the beds). I guess that is not so huge, "fertilizer" I assume, is 10/10/10. Urea is 46/0/0, so we are talking about a factor of 2 in N. And I use about 30 lbs of wood ash, which is mostly for pH but certainly provides plentiful P and K. And of course I get plenty of mulch, wood chips, etc, which adds up in all nutrients, as well as many pulses which provide N for the whole bed. So I take it back, if it is 10/10/10 the nutrient input is similar to mine. But keep in mind that a vegetable garden wants a nutrient profile closer to 4/1/4 than 1/1/1.

  • 16 years ago

    Bakaroni, Lots of the veggies you have listed are COOL CROPs not suitable to grow now in zone 9.

    But generally, your results point out to a poor soil, inadequate nutrients and/or improper PH.

    The first thing that you should do, perhaps, is to get a good soil test.
    Then go about amending and adding needed stuff.

    Cyrus

  • 16 years ago

    I think before you start amending your soil, you should check your water levels several inches down. Even though you've got good compost, you're probably sitting on a bed of clay under that and with all the rain we've had this spring, it's still soggy. Also, our weather has been unseasonably cold, and I've seen nights as low as 40 just last week. That will stunt growth, and our daytime temps in the 70's aren't helping either.

    Too much water will prevent the plants from utilizing the nutrients in your soil and can mimic a deficiency. So I'd be a little careful about adding more and more nitrogen until you're sure it's not a water problem first. If the ground underneath the top couple inches of soil is wet, let things dry a bit and see if your plants improve.

    Like Robert said, my greatest garden nemesis is slugs and snails. They'll wipe out your garden in one night, containers or not, and are what's hit your Marigolds, I'm sure. Probably your spinach, too. Get some Sluggo and sprinkle the granules around your plants. It's organic and won't harm birds or people. Water in the mornings, never in the evening as it will bring them around in groves.

    Beans should be sowed directly in the ground, not in pots, so it sounds like you're off to a good start there.

    But bottom line is, don't be too hard on yourself this year. Mentally, you need to turn back the calendar and pretend it's April 1st, because that's about where we're at weather wise. I've talked to a number of people who are on their 2nd and 3rd re-plantings because summer peeks out for a week then disappears again. I'm on my 2nd round of tomatoes myself, just put some additional zucchini seeds in the ground because I'm not sure the plants I have will make it. The only thing going well for me right now is peas and parsley--two cool weather tolerators that are pretty bug resistant. Everything else is sitting there stagnant, but I'm banking that everything will take off once we get some heat.

    If you can post some pictures, that always helps to diagnose problems, but don't be too impatient. I pulled my tomatoes out thinking they were gonners. I tossed them in my compost, and dang it if one of them isn't thriving in there now that the weather is warming. So don't be too worried about plants that don't seem to be growing much. They will once things heat up.

    As for recommendations, I'd give pole beans and cucumbers a try. They're hearty and I've always had good luck with them. I've heard we can't grow flavorful watermelons around here, though not knowing where you are in the bay area, that might just be regional to my microclimate here.

    Good luck and don't give up! This has been a rough spring for vegetables, so if you can get even one thing to grow well this year, consider yourself successful.

  • 16 years ago

    Also, check out the California Gardeners forum, as well as a thread on this forum titled "HATE this California weather". You'll see lots of us grumbling about our weather conditions this spring and how it's affecting our gardens. Compared to everyone else around here, your results are sounding pretty "normal".

  • 16 years ago

    Start here and get info for the correct planting dates for fruits and veggies in the San Francisco area:

    http://ucanr.org/freepubs/index.cfm

    Also check here for info from the Master Gardeners in your area, they are a huge help:

    http://www.mastergardeners.org/

    And Agriculture and Natural Resources, University of California

    http://ucanr.org/

    ps you gotta HAVE FUN too :)