OMG what a horrible experience. I am so sorry. I would be crying too.

I'm also sorry that I don't have any advice to give since the only thing I can think of would be to move them to something else (kiddie pools, garbage cans, etc)and that is not a viable solution for you.

Anne

I should've been prepared w/ all of that stuff for something like this but you never think it's going to happen, of course. other hting is i think it would stress them out more than it's worth to try to net and aerate elsewhere. oxygen seems to be ok now...remaining fish rallying. just trying to figure out how to get the dead ones.

jeez.

If you have any storage tubs lying around I would use those and get a cheap air pump from the pets store and put a air hose into the water, the more surface movement you have in the tubs, the more gas exchange will take place. This really sucks for you, I know how I would feel if t were my fish in such a pretty pond!

My condolences. I had the same problem last spring, different cause. So I know how you feel.

I got a 10 ft. wide collapsing side child's pond, added Stress Coat and an aquarium bubbler for the time it took to complete repairs and cleaning. If you can't do something like that, I'm not sure what you can do. I set up a spurting fountain in the center with a small spare pump but didn't worry about a filter. Most of the remaining fish survived.

Hi all. Looks like I have 9 survivors out of 30. Still 3 unaccounted for - they are either hiding or lying on the bottom dead. I'm pulling out an ungodly amt of bluegill hybrids...they just keep on a-comin'. WOW. Had to just get in and feel around for bodies..super gross! I got as many as I can and they just keep floating up.

Pond is half full now and remaining fish are doing well - even my boy that was belly-up has rallied.

I had a similar disaster a year ago-came out one morning to find tilapia flip-flopping in mud at the bottom of what used to be a pond. I was heartbroken and horrified.

Fortunately, I had big plastic tubs, and was able to collect about 30 fish (maybe 20% of the total), and move them to a spare water tank. The fish have probably bred back up to their original numbers.

Glad they were tilapia, ditch fish, used to no aeration or filtration. It would have been so much worse with beloved koi!

My first koi I ever got - Kirby - just surfaced about an hour ago. I found him lying on his side, getting sunburned. He was barely breathing.

I immediately got him, put him in a tub with vigorous aeration. He was doing a little coughing and barely breathing. I tried "swishing" him back and forth to keep him going but I think he is finished now. UGH. SO SAD.

I don't see his gills or mouth moving but when I turn him upright from his side, I will slowly see a fin move. I'm not sure if he is fully gone or what but I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

I'm heartbroken..he is, of course, the one that I really wanted to make it. I wish I would've jumped in yesterday to try to find him but...shouldacouldawoulda, right? :(

...I'm also beating myself up for not trying to resuscitate the large koi I found when I first came out. I was so focused on saving the ones that were moving, I never thought to try to work on the ones that weren't.

AHHHH, I need therapy!!!!

It's horrific, you may even have a little PTSD. Focus on what you can do to improve things. You did your best in the past, forgive yourself for what you didn't think to do.

I am so sorry, this is one of the most heartbreaking things Ive heard in a while ... be kind to yourself, besides ptsd dont forget that loss of a pet is a major loss for anyone with a heart and dont let anyone tell you that our fish arent loved pets, right up there with the family cat or dog.

I recently lost my first fish - he wasnt the one who was sick earlier this year, but another, one who had seemed to be fading in health for some time & had a tumor on his side - had a bit of a nitrite spike and he didnt survive -it was the very lowest reading of nitrite, but still....a lot of coulda shoulda here too. I think the second- guessing comes with the territory, it is part of the experience of grief, and it would be there no matter what the circumstances had been.

Since I am redesigning my pond Ive given this some thought and Im not sure how these things could be prevented except maybe for having a second liner system enveloping the inner liner??? But who does that...?

Shalom - FYI you can get a float switch that plugs into the electrical outlet and then you plug the pump into this float they run $31.50 at Grainer, most large supply houses, plumbing distributors will have them. Very cheap insurance.

This will work with any type of pump as it cuts off the electricity to the pump.

hHving a Koi for over 12 years, plus the 5 others that range from 3-11 years, I can feel your loss.

If you have a submersible pump in a skimmer and when the pond wter level gets below the skimmer inlet and doesn't enter into the skimmer then you're also protected.

I'm installing an aboveground pump so I'll have a float in the skimmer so if the water gets low, I'll shut down the pump as the pump will be connected to a retro bottom drain so the float switch will protect the pond. As abackup the suction into the pond will be from both the skimmer adn pond so if the skimmer goes dry it breaks the suction but the pump would still run so the float switch is to save both pump and pond.

Sorry for the loss, but maybe others reading the forum will take heed - Amen!!

Thank you, Kasha..it sucks - that's the bottom line. LOL Thank you for commiserating with me!

mckool...I have been trying to figure out how to rig up a float switch. The pump isn't in a skimmer...I have two other submersibles in the skimmer.

this is an external pump that is around 10 ft away from the water and up and over a decent hill so i'm not sure how i'd rig it.

hmmm...it's actually fairly close to the top of the waterfall so i wonder if i could put the float in the back of the biofalls box..? then if the water in the pond dropped below the level of the skimmer box...then the biofalls would lose their water...and then the float would shut off the pump...................yes? lol

Ademink,

It probably would not work in your a biofalls because the water level would not drop. The problem is with any electric shutoff there is a good possibility that it will fail when needed. I prefer to have an external pump to pump from both the bottom drain and the skimmer. This way if the skimmer loses water the prime on the pump is broken and the pump can not lower the pond level. It doesn't have to suck a lot of water from the skimmer. It could be as little 50 gph and it will break the prime.

Mike

Shalom - Yes the water must drop - My new install will have a scuction line and the flaot in the sklimmer; suction break to prevent pond from running dry since I'll have a retro bottom drain into the main pond and the float to shut off the electric to shutdown the pump so it won't burn up running dry and as redundant backup as well. I have a redundant mindset from my fuel system buisness

Sorry to hear. That's why I don't use that kind of pump. Instead, I use aeration pumps and ring filtering media.
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Shalom - How does that system work, please? The pictures are not clear to me. Need the kiss principle

Hi Mike!!!

Here is my thought:

When the water gets low enough, it stops coming into the skimmer....and when that happens, the submersible pumps usually lower the biofalls box b/c the water backflows (I have no idea if that's the right terminology).

All I know is that Sunday morning, there was still some (not much) water in the skimmer box and barely any in the biofalls box either.

I guess that's what I was basing it on..?

I haven't had a chance to go get that bobber mcthingie yet to see what I can rig.

Steiconi - somehow missed your post. Thank you, friend. :)

What happens when the pond level starts to drop below the skimmer opening? The pump in the skimmer continues to run and empties the skimmer. The pump is out of the water and heats up and shuts off. The water from the biofalls flows back into the skimmer and fills the skimmer and flows into the pond. The water in the skimmer and biofalls system is now less and the pump cools off and starts up again. It overheats again and shuts off. But every time the pump runs the biofalls fills and the external pump would start up and continue to pump the pond out. Every time the skimmer pump starts up it heats the water in the skimmer/biofalls system warmer and warmer causing the water to evaporate quicker and quicker. Water that is 160 to 180 degrees will evaporate pretty quickly. Over night it could easily evaporate the amount of water that a skimmer can hold under skimmer door. If the external pump was also pumping into the biofalls the biofalls would not lower until that pump stopped putting water in it.

As an example let's say that the pond holds 2000 gallons under the opening on the skimmer. Let's say that the external pump pumps 5000 gph. Let's say that all the water from this pump is going on the ground. It would take about 24 minutes for this pump to empty the pond. Depending on the pump in the skimmer it could easily take 15 to 20 minutes to heat up hot enough to overheat and shut off.

A float switch probably would not work in the biofalls. So lets talk a little about your pond. What kind of bottom drain and piping you have in your pond?

Mike

Ok, that makes sense. I forgot that every time it turns back on it would continue pumping. duh.

The bottom drain is an Aqua Art retro fit bottom drain with 3" opening. It is connected to a black flexible tubing that is really hard (almost w/ a metal coil in it?). It is reduced from 3" to 2" and then runs back to the pump.

I had a Sequence pump but that thing sucked (not literally, unfortunately). I had to have it repaired 2x and it was NOT cheap to begin with! It lasted 2 yrs. BOOOO.

When it last gave up the ghost, it was 1.5 months ago. I found a hayward 1.5 HP super pump on craiglist for $150. The pond was w/o a functioning BD for about a month.

Here is where it all goes downhill. lol

So the previous pump was connected to the hose in from the BD and hose out to the bead filter by the black hoses that were connected with a black screw-on style of fitting. They simply did NOT come off, no matter what.

The new pump had smaller openings and so the old fittings wouldn't work. We had to cut off the "screw" ends and use compression fittings instead (the black squishy sleeves w/ two metal bands that you screw to tighten).

The first day that we turned the pump on and were messing w/ it, the same top fitting popped off b/c it wasn't seated properly (the hose hit me in the head, almost knocked me out from the pressure...lol...bruise on my forehead for 2 wks!).

Because of that, I was paranoid and was actually shutting it off at night...just in case something went wrong.

(I know, this is a long story lol)

Saturday during the day, we saw that the pump was emptying faster than the water could come into the basket and we realized the BD was partially clogged and decided to get in the pond and get it freed up. DH jumped in and pulled it up...cleared it out and then set it up on two large pieces of flagstone so it wasn't directly on the bottom of the pond.

(Note: had he not done this, when the disaster happened, it would've drained the ENTIRE pond. Truly a lifesaving decision for the fish that lived in the remaining 6" of water b/c of that flagstone!)

Anyhoo, everything was riproaring along at 100mph again and I was checking the basket frequently...not much there.

That night was the ONE night I didn't unplug it overnight...I forgot. Small debris plugged up the basket, increasing the pull of the pump, which started moving around the hose on the top of the pump. It was moving enough to pull the compression fitting off and it popped the hose off.

The water simply geysered out of the top of the pump until the pond was almost completely empty.

SOOOOO...way more than you asked but I have known you long enough to know that you like a clear picture, MIke! LOL I"m hoping that makes the error of my ways clear enough!

At this time I am only running the BD during the day and am trying to find screw-on fittings to replace the existing compression fittings. Additionally, I have bungee'd the BD to a crate so it is a foot off the floor of the pond.

I have also been partaking of some retail therapy and have a little mass of baby koi in the pond right now. They just came up and started eating food this morning and I literally screamed with delight LOL!

I'm not sure how these water bobbermcthingie's work but I *think* the external pump is close enough that if it truly does have a 20' cord, I can put it in the body of the pond and run the cord back to where the pump is. Need to get to the store today and get one to rig it!

OK so I found it:

http://www.tractorsupply.com/water-source-piggy-back-float-switch-1028073

The question is how it works. It's floating in the pond...and if the level goes down, won't it just float on down w/ the level?

I will google and see if I can figure this out.

Hi Ademink,

Thanks for all the information. Solving your problem is very simple and could be done without spending a dime. In fact I could set it up so if the pond dropped a .5" the pump would not suck anymore water out of the pond. There are two ways you can do this. One way would be to lower the water level in the pond lower than where you want the pump to stop pumping. Drill a small hole in the pipe from the BD to the pump about a .5" below where you want the pump to stop pumping. What will happen is that when the water level in the pond is above this hole the hole will suck in water and the pump will operate just fine. When the water level drops close to the hole it will suck in air and break the prime on the pump. This hole should be about a quarter inch. The other way is to put a tee in the BD pipe with a .5" valve installed on the branch.The top of the opening valve should be located where you would have drilled the hole. With the valve partly opened it will do the same thing as the drilled hole will do. But with the valve shut you could pump most of the water out of the pond if you wanted to.

The rubber coupling did not come apart because the basket got some debri in it. What happened is that the bead filter started to plug up some and the pump built up more pressure to push water thru it. The pressure got higher than the coupling could handle and blew off.
Mike

SHALOM ALL/MIKE - the anti-siphon hole in the pipe -that's an embarrassment to me - Daaaaaaaaa - We use this same technique on fuel filter return lines to prevent a back siphon of fuel and HERE I never gave it a thought - Looks like the "parttimeersmaybe more like "fulltimers"
I'd add a check valve/ball valve just above the hole to keep water in the line for priming the pump if necessary.

Typically the float wire is tetherd to something to keep it in one place so when the water level goes down the float tips over on it's side to shut down the electric.
Presume you could tether it to one of the pipes?

Since my skimmer box bottom is high enough to keep adequate water in the pond for a short time, My siphon break and float will be in the skimmer box - redundancy

THAT'S WHEY WE HAVE THE FORUM - AMEN !!

That's a stinkin' cheap and easy fix. Mike...for almost 10 years you have been sharing your wisdom with me...and your toad eggs AND matala filters... :)

You're awesome.

mckool - I got the floater mcbobberthingie also. I'm going w/ redundancy. I would rather double up than bury the dead again!

I have a similar problem, yet different. I have accidentally used too much algaecide (please dont shame me, I am horrified at what has happened and I have learned a horrific lesson!!) I have 14 koi and some gold fish in a 4000 gallon pond and I live in Socal, so its very warm right now. The pump was not running, and they were deprived of oxygen after I so stupidly put the algeacide in the pond which made everything worse. I have a submersible pump and i was able to get some movement in there, cleaned all the dead goldfish and 1 dead koi out and then drained it a quarter of the way, but the only way to drain the pond is to use our submersible pump and pump it out so we can exchange the water, but this is going to take about 10 hours total. It will take at least 5 to drain the pond about 50% and another 5 hours to fix the filter and pump and get it going again so we can back wash and cycle the water. I have already added the detoxifier and the smudge to add back in while we wait to do this, and I am prepared with the dechlor and heavy metal remover (conditioner) when we can fill it back up. However, I am petrified to turn the submersible pump on to extract the bad water out for the 5 hours it will take to get down to 60% water level! Will it hurt my koi more to pump the water out instead of pumping it in to give them oxygen for 5 hours so we can repair the filter? I am SO upset that I made such a stupid move, we have no way of getting them out without a net to remove them while we try to fix the pump so they have to stay in the pond while we do this. My main concern is it is safe to drain the water for 5 hours where there is no oxygen going to the water! Please help.

If your pump you are using to oxygenate the water is dead, its' dead. Using a different pump to pump out water isn't going to change that.