The builder might be right....he should know what the local building codes are. The building code department should have some documentation that defines a swimming pool. In my area, a swimming pool is one that is designed for human use. so that excludes my ponds. However, no matter how shallow your pond is, you should include a fence just to protect neighbor children. Ponds are considered to be an "attractive nuisance" and your insurance company will probably require that it is fenced for liability reasons. Don't let local bureaucratic nonsense keep you from putting in a pond the size you want or you will regret it every time you look at the compromised pond.

Ditto what Ccoombs said. As the saying goes, "Don't let the turkeys get you down." Jump through their hoops and end up with a pond that you will find relaxing and enjoyable. In the long run it will be well worth it; they will have their piece of paper saying your pond is legal and you will be sitting pond-side watching your finny friends swim around.

Good luck,
Anne

Well, OK, but the design that I am looking for is for a water feature that looks natural. If I have to hire a fencing company to enclose the pond, how natural is that gonna be?

I am fed up with these useless bureaucrats. The pass silly codes, then beat their chests proudly when then show off how well they can recite them.

For perspective my next door neighbor has a 1/2 acre "fire pond". It is probably about 7' deep. He was required to do that, back in the ''70s, so if his house caught fire, some safety measures were available. Probably illegal to do that today, what with kids and all. I guess going forward we all have to burn do death so stupid kids will never get in trouble.

Our zonig is restricive, 5 acre minimum. If we go to see the neighbors, we drive. None of our neighbors have any kids.

We have no kids here, my brother has kids, but the youngest is in college.

When we were kids, our parents intentially bought the house near wooded areas near ponds, creeks and streams. Somehow, we all had enough common sense not to drown ourselves. And we had a lot of fun.

I would be able to appreciate government bureaucrats silly rules, but life is short.

There is no way I am going to put a fence around a pond. That is stupid.

I grew up on a lake and I never drowned and none of my siblings or relatives or playmates drowned. However, many comunities, including the one in which I live, require fences around pools and ponds. Whether I agree or not, if I want my pond I have to fence it.

One possibility I saw at a home nearby was a lovely split rail fence and the owners put hogwire on the inside of the fence. You can't see it from a distance, but it does the job.

You said, "There is no way I am going to put a fence around a pond."

Sorry, I didn't realize you were this adamant against a fence. Maybe a pondless water feature would be more appropriate for you. That way you can have the water movement without the requirement of a fence.

Anne

No, I don't want a water feature with a fence around it. Never.

As an analogy, I have several versions of J.S. Bach's Ave Marie. All have separate meanings for me, all of them significant. But I have none that sport a 15 second message "Warning, Mr. Bach was an avid Lutheran, proceed with caution". The beauty is in the presentation.

Below is an older pic of my side yard as seen from the county road. Kids do not run through my yard. And if they did, I think the old fashioned term is "trespassing"

How did it happen that I lost the rights to my property? If I don't own my property, who does?

{{gwi:229617}}

Tom,

I agree with what you are saying and it is frustrating.

Anne

Hello,
I am having an 8 by 11 pond put in this week. It is 3ft. deep. The person putting it in wasn't sure about permits. I called my Town Building Inspector and they did not have any laws regarding pond. I guess every town is different.

In my town in NJ I talked to the construction official directly. He said that not many people in town have put in ponds, but I would need a permit for the electrical only. As I was leaving he asked me how deep it was going to be, I thought about it and asked him why? He said anything over 3 feet was considered a pool and all the requirements for pools(fence, alarms etc) would be required. I responded "It will be 2 feet 11 and 3/4 inches" and left. You should only need an electrical permit and get a qualified liscensed electrician!!! Water and electricity don't mix well!

Do call up your town & check the local regs--I looked at ours online, and it was clear that if I stayed under 2' deep, I'd be fine. Over that, the regs only refer to pools, not ponds, but I didn't want really deep anyhow--hand digging--and I have a much, much smaller property, very big just wouldn't work.

I wouldn't want to fence in your pond, either, that's a beautiful sweep of land you have there!

If those are the accurate guidelines, how much do you want to exceed them by? If 10x10 is the limit, maybe a series of ponds, linked by a stream? But, check the on the real rules--it's quite possible that you're zoned differently than where this guy usually works, even!

Hello mega, thanks for the help.

The local pond contractor was quite specific in saying that the building code for fish pond is 2 foot deep maximum. The problem is, what is the proper design for optimum fish biology? What is a good environment for the Koi?

Other posts here indicate that Koi ponds are best over 3 feet, perhaps as deep as 5 feet.

I want a Koi pond as an aesthetic landscape feature, but also one that is optimal and respectful of the wildlife.

Koi do best in ponds that are at least 4 feet deep, although deeper is better. Many serious koi hobbyists have ponds that are 8' deep! Koi can easily grow to 26" to 32", with some koi reaching 38". They enjoy a pond that allowes them to swim fast and deep and they develop large powerful bodies in water that will allow them to exercise. In the wild, carp are river animals. They are found in large lakes and ponds too, but they prefer water with currents. Also, deeper water with more volumn is much easier to maintain the quality and temperature.

ccoombs- thanks for that info!! Definitely. Yes, it makes sense, the space, temperatures and water quality. Is it then also true the deep ponds (4 feet and deeper), minimize the predator nuisance problem? Is heron damage less significant in a deep pond?

I have always been amazed at the grace of live fish. When I was young, I had several small fish tanks (tropicals). Looking back, my only regrets are the times when I didn't take care of the fish responsibly, maybe one would die. I have never had any fish since those days, decades ago.

As mentioned the neighbor's fire pond is at least 6 or 7' deep. It has several brown carp, which keep it clean, and eat the insect larvae (we never have any mosquitoes). Those carp are at least 30" long. They look very healthy.

That large pond is wonderful. It used to get ducks in the spring, even sometimes both common and hooded mergansers (mostly mating pairs). But a few years ago, a snapping turtle moved in. No more ducks, and now very few frogs. If it were my pond, I would have the turtle removed.

Of course, mergansers are predators as well, but they don't just "pig out" like the herons. Mergansers are "athletes" in the duck world. And they are way cooler to watch than herons.

Again, thanks so much for the info!!

{{gwi:229618}}

A deep pond with vertical walls will go a long way in predator control. Once in a while you will get a heron who learns to just stand quietly at the side and spear the fish when they surface, but I have never had it happen here. And I have lots of big herons fly over almost every day. I have shade sails over the pond so that may help some as well. Kingfishers don't care how deep the pond is though. They sit in a near-by tree and watch for a fish to surface, then dive in and get it. Comorants, Anhingas, and Ospray fish like that too. But I have never had an issue with any of those birds either.

So you are new to koi keeping? Are you building this pond yourself or having someone build it for you? Do you understand the use of bottom drains that tie into filtration to keep the pond bottom clean? A koi pond, in otherwords a pond designed to provide the optimal environment for koi, differs greatly from a water garden. A properly designe koi pond can be VERY low maintenance. My biggest pond is 9000 gallons yet maintenance takes only 15 minutes a week at the most. You are in the perfect position to plan this thing out now and make it a wonderful habitat for the koi. I am attaching a link to a pond forum that I moderate on. There are some pretty good pond construction threads there with loads of pictures. Check it out if you get a chance. My newest pond building project is there, along with some good DIY filters and such.

Here is a link that might be useful: The pond forum

Here's another forum you can check out. This one is pretty specific to serious koi keepers. It is an excellent place to learn more about koi and what they require. There are a lot of good pond construction threads there as well. Some of the members have little tolerance for newbies and water gardeners though, but don't let them bother you. The members there are among the best koi keepers in the country.

Here is a link that might be useful: koi-bito

ccombs,

well, thank you so much for the links, and the words of encouragement.

Yes, this will be my first koi pond (if I get it done).
I will hire a contractor for the construction. The very deep pond sounds like the way to go, but we have a lot of shale "ledge" here. I don't know how deep it can go.

We have loads of herons around here, kingfishers as well. Bald eagles and ospreys show up in the local waterways also, but I doubt they would visit a tiny pond in my yard.

I'll start to check the other pond forums in the next few days.

Thanks so much!

Tom