Connie,

The mulched rows do look wonderful. Getting the roses out of the pots was important...especially for those roses which had longer "sentences" to pot prison.

I can't tell you enough how much I like the crushed granite I use for my garden paths. So far it is working beautifully. And, as you probably remember, I separate the paths from the beds with the dark green liriope. I like the contrast in texture and color.

I had a rather large dumptruck of the crushed granite delivered for about $350 which allowed me to do quite a bit. I would recommend it over grass anyday. I spray it with roundup to kill any weeds that occur.

Robert

I agree with Robert, the mulched rows look wonderful. Personally, I love the look of grass paths but I do see your dilema about the maintenance. That irrigation system looks like it was a big job! I have really enjoyed following your progress, a weekly update would be good.

Carol

Connie,
I enjoy seeing your Rose Field progress and the mulched rows look great. I missed your orchard article, but I agree that grass is a pain. I have been struggling with the same issue for the front of my house. I am looking at buffalo grass which needs far less water and mowing maybe every 6 months. I think that I would still prefer the crushed granite. Once your roses are larger the ground will disappear as a focal point. Anyway it is so much fun to see your progress.
Diana

Connie, i think grass is going to be a chore no matter what you do. The easiest thing might be to put crushed granite between the aisles and you could just crop dust the field with poast. One swoop with a small airplane. If you put grass between the aisles you could mow it and just spray the mulch and around the roses with poast. Or like diana says plant a small grass that you don't really have to mow. I think buffalo grass only works well in certain parts of the country. It's difficult to get an answer on the heighth of lawn grasses because most people assume you are going to mow it, and don't really know. Grass grows everywhere here, and if you don't plant a domestic grass, there always seems to be some sort of wild weedy grass pop up and always where you don't want it. I put some 5x7 rocks around my roses and the crab grass or whatever it is just loves it, i even saw some grass growing in the asphalt highway on my way to the grocery store today! I bought a sprayer and some hi-yield grass killer. I am going to start spraying. I am still a little shy about trying it on my roses so i am going to try it on the iris's first. it is suppose to be selective for grass only. As you can probably tell my biggest frustration and discouragement is grass, and i hope it helps you in your choices. I've debated whether or not to post this, it seems so kill-joyish, but if i knew then what i know now about the grass issues, i wouldn't be so wore out fighting it. I wish you nothing but the best and am anticipating the final outcome. I would be curious what roses you have and what order and row they are planted.

I'm so glad that you all are enjoying my escapades. Sometimes I'm not sure if posting stuff like this here is a little too self-serving or not. I figure that I really like seeing what everyone else is up to, so others may want to see what I'm doing.

Len, we must have thought the same thing at the same time about the rose list. I went out earlier this afternoon to take an inventory to make sure I knew what I had planted where. I'll put my list at the end of this reply, since I'm sure you're not the only one who's curious.

Grass in the aisles is definitely out now. Crushed stone is in . . . now to see how much I need. A job for tomorrow. (Len, did you buy Ornamec? It's a selective grass killer that doesn't harm listed broadleafs, roses included. I've used it for crabgrass and bermuda and I'm pleased with the results.)

Carol, I love my irrigation system. I got all the components from Dripworks, and it goes together so easily. The hardest part of the job really was rolling out that monster roll of tubing so it would heat up and straighten out in the sun. I cut the tube to length with my pruners, jab the ends into the fittings, pop in the tubes with the shrubbler emitters, and turn on the water. So simple. The best part is that it waters all the roses in a tiny fraction of the time that it would take to water them any other way.

Connie

The List of Roses Planted So Far. Rows numbered right to left.

East Fence
Vicomtesse Pierre du Fou
Zeus
Souvenir de Mme. Leonie Viennot
Aimee Vibert Scandens
Crepuscule
Baltimore Belle

Row 1: Chinas
Hume’s Blush Tea-Scented China
Gruss an Teplitz
Ducher
Old Blush
Napoleon
Reuter China
Jean Bach Sisley
Climbing Rouletii
...aisle...
Cl. Old Blush
Single Pink China
St. Thomas China
Comtesse du Cayla
Fabvier
Mableton Rouletii
Bengal Fire
Camellia Rose
Miss Lowe’s Variety

Row 2: OGRs & Portlands
Bella Donna
Leda
Autumn Damask
(lost tag . . . grr)
Banshee
White Cockade
...aisle...
White Dawn
Sydonie
Arthur de Sansal
Glendora
Rose du Roi
Rose du Roi a Fleurs Pourpres
Amanda Patenaude

Row 3: Misc OGRs
Madame Plantier
Celestial
Henri Martin
White Bath
Shailer’s Provence
Blairii No. 1
...aisle...
The Bishop
Alice Vena
Ruth’s German Rose
Ruth’s Steeple Rose
Old Homestead
(space)
(space)
Pompon de Bourgogne

Row 4: Misc. OGRs
Apothecary Rose
The Elegant Gallica
Tuscany Superb
Rosa Mundi
Dancing Doll
...aisle...
Renae
Connie’s Favorite Gallica
Charles de Mills
(room for 3 more)

Row 5: Hybrid Musks
Darlow’s Enigma
Daphne
Danae
Penelope
Buff Beauty
...aisle...
Cornelia
Nur Mahal
Violet Hood
Erfurt
Vanity
(space)

Row 6: Bourbons
Madame Pierre Oger
Madame Isaac Pereire
Coquette des Blanches
Ralph Moore South African OGR
Madame Cornelissen
Joseph Gourdeau
Zepherine Drouhin
...aisle...
Kathleen Harrop
Gipsy Boy
Romaggi Plot Bourbon
Mlle. Blanche Lafitte
Variegata di Bologna
Louise Odier

Row 7: Noisettes
(space)
Placerville White Noisette
The Charlestonian
Fewell’s Noisette
Georgetown Gateside Yellow
...aisle...
Pleasant Hill Cemetery
La Nymphe
Secret Garden Noisette
Caroline Marniesse
Nastarana
Cato’s Cluster
(space)

Row 8: Teas
Safrano
Homere
Smith’s Parish
Odee Pink
Puerto Rico (Maitland White)
...aisle...
Elie Beauvillian
Burbank
Westside Road Cream Tea
Cels Multiflore
Madame Lombard

Row 9: Polyanthas
(3 spaces)
Sneezy
Happy
Dopey
Sleepy
Snow White
Goldilocks, Cl.
...aisle...
Cl. White Pet (?)
Marie Pavie
Cecile Brunner
Pink Revelation
La Marne
Anne-Marie de Montravel
Echo
Marie Daley

Keep those updates coming. And take care of your back!!

Not self serving at all...I'm living vicariously through your project.

Connie---Please keep us posted---I'm enjoying this project. I'm no longer capable of such hard work but I sure love watching your progress---

BTW---What kind of vitamins do you take ?? LOL---

You sure have a lot of energy.

Florence

connie, i got the other one, seth... instead of the fluaz... i think they both work the same, except where i bought at was much cheaper the poast type for the dilution ratio. I am glad you have that in your arsenal!
I am very impressed with your rose selections. And as far as the self serving stuff, every motivation out there is self-serving in one way or another, but this is the sort of stuff i really enjoy seeing and would like to see more of. I can sure appreciate your hard work and i am sure you are probably exhausted. keep up the good work and keep us posted!

How about a contrasting mulch for the paths--one of the 'dyed' mulches, red or black, or pine straw. The problem with gravel is that if you ever change your mind it is a B**** to undo. Also, gravel holds and reflects heat, which would make the whole area hotter and, given the amount you'd have, may even burn the roses.

Oh, Connie, I love the updates. You should feel my heart racing - very exciting stuff. I put down crushed granite in my backyard and along one side (5' x 30') of my house. Mulch is a breeze compared to the weight of the gravel, but when it's done, it's beautiful. We used a Rubbermaid wheelbarrow in the backyard which was fine because I didn't have to go far from the pile and the ground was firm. But when I did the side I had farther to go over softer ground, so DH bought me a cart with big pneumatic tires, then I put 2 Rubbermaid tubs on it. He could pull 11 shovelfuls in each tub with me pushing. When I was by myself, I had to drop it to 7 shovelfuls each. It is heavy work! Boy, I wish I had male muscles! Wouldn't that be cute? :))

One interesting note: the gravel I got is called "contaminated" granite and was $35 a yard instead $60 a yard for "pure" granite. I don't know if it was an accident or what, but some limestone got into the mix so they sold it for less. Seriously, I don't think I see 3 pieces of white stone in a square yard - and what a huge difference pricewise. As far as heat retention, I don't notice it being any hotter on the stone, and this is SUNNY Florida. But I do think there may be some valuable heat retention in the winter for you. Can't say how much, but sometimes a little might help a lot. You can not walk barefoot on it. The first step will kill you. I used to walk out in the back in my bare feet - not anymore.

Robert's liriope idea sounds lovely for a smaller garden. That's a lot of liriope even if you divide them into babies. Maybe seeds of some sort in the spring would give you a nice border and enable you to keep your gravel a little narrower - less to buy. I put 20-year weed cloth under my stone. It gets a rare weed - or mushroom - but they're easy to pull since the roots don't go anywhere.

Your rose field is exactly what I want to do on land behind my house that isn't mine (part of the water retention area.) So I'm loving your updates. It's not self-serving at all. It's a public service! You're doing such a good job, but if you could squeeze in a few more pics, it would be even better.

And your choice of roses is wonderful. I think that's what got my heart beating fast. And the climbers on the aisle - oh, I love that idea. Something I will definitely do, too.

Keep it coming! And protect your back - don't overdo. You don't want to have to quit before you're finished.

Sherry

after what catsrose and sherry said, I am hoping that you aren't going to use a wheelbarrow to spread all that crushed granite are you? and also it got me thinking about how gravel gets kicked around a lot and tends to scatter in areas you might not want it. what about pavers or pieces of flagstone with groundcover growing around them? They sold flagstone at my local quarry that was a little more expensive maybe a couple dollars per ton, but the lady told me i couldn't lift them so i didn't get that, but if they are broken into paver size pieces. I am just thinking that for normal walking through the pavers would keep your shoes clean and for the occasional wheelbarrow or tractor passing through shouldn't harm the groundcover. just a thought.

Connie, thanks for the update. It's exciting to see your progress. I like Florence's question about vitamins. Good luck in choosing something for the paths, that is a big decision in the long run. Another thought on gravel, sometimes it can cause a person to slip and fall. Just an observation. I hope someday to see your wonderful garden in person.

Carla

Great update, and it is really shaping up. I think any surface in between the rows has its own pluses and minuses. Robert has direct experience with stone, and that counts for a lot. I used to have a raised bed area with gravel, and I did not like how it always got kicked around. It also eventually fills in with some dirt, so weeds grow anyways. If you edge the paths with wood, that helps- but again a lot of work. So that's why I thought grass would be a good first choice & do it similar to an orchard. The Edisto garden in Orangeburg SC does their large garden that way, and it looks good. Good luck & thanks again for the update.

Connie, I like what Barbara does. The hardwood chips enhance the soil in that they decompose and in a pretty short time (here at least) become black soil. And the bark mulch would have a different look. I like the small (3/4") pine bark mulch better than cypress. The only thing about the mulch in the paths is that you have to replenish it periodically which is expense and labor. At $20/yd for the mulch vs $35 for the gravel, we chose the gravel. I haven't found that the crushed granite kicks around much because the stones are sharp and irregular and lock together. After a rain or two it's packed and firm. And if you do make a divot, it's easy to fix with your toe. I don't have any edging in some areas and some I do. I like it fine with no edging.

Sherry

Connie,

I agree,keep the updates coming. I am so excited about your endeavor. One thing I have seen in a lot of commercial gardens is roof shingles in aisles between plants. I am not sure of the pros and cons, but it does keep the paths weed free.

Kathy

I love the brain-storming we do on these threads.

For me, being able to walk barefoot would be a priority, to throw on a tee shirt and shorts and stroll the beds with my morning coffee, taking in that first rising fragrance. I wouldn't mind just plain packed dirt, so I could feel the dust between my toes. So wood chips would be out for me. Old brick just set in the dirt would be good if you are into scavenging. You could request all visitors bring ten bricks. The paths would grow about the same rate as the roses...

I'm with catsrose, I like all the various ideas that come out when we share like this.

When I proposed using crushed stone in the paths, I had completely forgotten how much I like the look and feel of the paths in Robert's garden. I think he used one step above stone dust, there's no chance of tripping over anything but my own two-left-feet, and it packs down very nicely. DH and I have talked it over -- as much as he likes the look of grass, we agree that the maintenance of said grass would be horrible . . . so crushed stone wins.

Barefoot isn't an option around here, much to my disappointment. I am a barefoot-loving girl, but even I won't go without some sort of shoe outside. With 160 years of homeowners and farmers here, I am always finding some sort of hazard around the place -- broken glass, usually. We also have nails, wire, pieces of pottery, wood shards . . . you name it, I've probably stepped on it. My barefoot compromise is that I wear my plastic Birki sandals whenever I go out, if I'm not wearing my work boots. The sandals feel good, the plastic is waterproof, and my feet are safe.

As far as the idea that I may move stone with a wheelbarrow . . . ha ha ha. We have a tractor with a front-end loader for stuff like that. This is my first experience with any type of outdoor activity on such a huge scale -- my gardening up until now has been in proportion to a normal-size subdivision lot and a new-construction house. Under those circumstances, you can do stuff by hand with a shovel and a rake. Out here it practically takes heavy equipment and hired hands to get something done. Fortunately, I have awesome neighbors who are showing me the ropes . . . and I'm entertaining them with my 'stupid' questions as we work.

Vitamins? Nope, just a go-go-go personality. I'm the sort of person who always has at least a few projects cooking at once. Right now I'm doing this work in the rose field, prepping a bed for figs, managing the construction of a picnic shelter (dubbed the Tiki Hut), choosing paint to finish our barn restoration, and crocheting an afghan for a fund-raiser auction. The next project in the queue is construction of the greenhouse. There's always something going on around here.

Connie

Hi Connie,
Enjoyed the update. Now for my 2 cents! Agree taking the roses out of the "pot prison" as Robert so aptly put it does wonders for them. I have moved over 50 roses during the heat of the summer to NY and have not lost a one yet. Furthermore, some are blooming more than they were down here. Of course, winter will determine my success/fail rate since the ground is low lying and and the water table high.
My experience is that grass is a pain; not only to mow but more so to keep it from creeping into the flower beds and Bermuda grass can be a demon. I love white clover in the lawn but it sure goes for those mulched beds. We had a graveled circular driveway when we moved here which BADLY needed replenishing. After 5 years of driving on it, it needs a new coat. One thing I like about the gravel it does keep the weeds out if thick enough. Frankly I LOVE the look of gravel paths where plants from the perennial beds informally spill over into it giving it an irregular edging, a very English estate/cottagey look. LOVE IT! One nice thing, seeds like to germinate in it. I had a load of johnny jump ups in adjacent beds. Few seeds germinated in the mulched beds but oh they loved the adjacent gravel driveway. I had a spring bed 2x6 ft of jju's in the driveway this spring and loved it( admittedly the gravel wasn't too thick there. I just dug up and repotted 2 japanese maples, 2 southern wax myrtle, and 2 service berry which had sprouted under a telephone wire; gifts of the birds. In NY, we had used wood chips in our woodland garden front yard. It worked but had to be renewed every year since the wood chips got broken down and enriched the earth.
When we had the gravel delivered, the man was an artist. He was so skilled that he tipped the back of the truck and drove so skillfully that the gravel poured out in wide level sweeps instead of dumping it in one huge pile for us to rake. When he was done, the driveway was freshly graveled and all leveled out as if it had been hand raked.
Looked lovely and no work. Laying out the paths with a wheelbarrow will be a lot of work. If some one can do it with a small dumpster it would be worth it.
CLUMPING LIRIOPE would be good or select varieties of Hosta.
Your idea of drip irrigation is wonderful. When I lived in southern VA for a year, a man sold potted chrysanthemums in the fall. He had laid down rolls of plasic to control weeds and had a dripper going to each pot. It saved a lot of work and his plants were vigorous and beautiful.
Last thought; you might try several methods (gravel,wood chips, etc.) in your furthest corner of the bed and see which works best for you.
Jim

Connie,

I would caution you about using some gravel...i.e., namely pea/pebble gravel. It is difficult and LOUD to walk on. If the layer is thick enough to control weeds, it's deep enough for other weeds to sprout it...I know it sounds weird. I've not enjoyed "strolling" through paths of deep pea gravel...it may look nice, but..... I also tried using the pea gravel in my front yard on top of the black landscaping fabric. It created the perfect environment for bermuda grass and a wide assortment of less than desirable indigenous groundcovers. That may have been my worst gardening mistake...what was I thinking?

Robert

Robert, I have to laugh at your bermuda grass comment. Is there anything more noxious as bermuda grass? Unfortunately I have to have it as my lawn (subdivision rules), but at this moment, I think I have more in my beds that I do on my lawn (from the drought).

We had our back yard sodded 4 years ago. We have some spots that don't get enough sun, and the bermuda is not doing well there. So we will probably do gravel and pavers there. But there was one spot stepping the patio that was getting muddy. My husband threw an old house rug there just to keep us from stepping in the mud. I lifted it up the the other day and there was bermuda grass growing on it! That stuff will grow anywhere, except on my lawn.