Jeri--how big is ALT now? How big do you think it might grow? I just received one from Vintage and would like to make sure I plant it in a large enough area. Thanks.

Joanne

Oh, I'd say it's about 4.5 ft. tall now. But it's only 3-4 years old.
And it is as wide (or wider) than tall.

In ten years, I have a feeling it will be quite a tall plant, and very graceful.
It is planted near Le Pactole, and I suspect they will in the end be of
equal stature.

I am DELIGHTED with its resistance to mildew and rust, which is absolute.

Jeri

Put me in the crowd that didn't get a single bloom to open until this fall. I don't see the dark pink that Jeri sees on the coast. It's mostly pale blush. The scent is divine, the plant healthy, but the balling is very persistent.

I have more than one rose which behaves best in the Fall, when I might otherwise be moved to remove them.

To be truthful, blooms have opened better this year than in past years.
But it has been a hot Fall, which may be an issue.
At least it blooms, and if blooms don't open, they are at least lovely as half-opened buds.

Jeri

I had this rose once, but I think a mole came along and stole it one night when it was a young freshly planted band (this was back before I knew better than to plant bands directly into the wilderness of my garden!)

I think I need to re-order it to support Vintage. Thanks for the reminder about such a pretty rose!

Allison

Did it open for you, Allison, when you had it?

It seems it's not so well-behaved in every environment.

Jeri

Unfortunately, I didn't get to keep it long enough to even have a bloom! The thief in the night came and took this one before a bud had a chance to open. I think I bought that band in fall from Vintage, and was silly enough to think it would be ok to ignore the recommendation to grow bands up in pots for a few months.

I did place an order to Vintage last night, I have ordered ALT, and also: Angel's Camp Tea, Pleasant Hill Cemetary, and Amy Robsart. They will all go in 3 gallon pots for the winter.

Allison

Good for you.
I bet it will do well for you.
And you have certainly inspired me, regardind Spice.

Jeri

tee hee, that is good! I have not considered myself an enabler, at least not on the level with the likes of yourself, or Luanne, or Patrick.... but I am glad to be of service to "Spice" !

Allison

I just bought this rose, fell in love with the photo. I haven't gotten it yet which is probably good because now I am not sure that I should plant it where I had planned. How big Le Pactole, if that is what it might be like in the end I want to be prepared. I am embarrassed to say that I can't figure out the pictures on the Vintage web site. Is there a page that explains the pictures that I have missed?

Well -- Le Pactole.
Mine is, oh, maybe 5 ft tall now. But the plant in the Sacramento City
Cemetery, from which mine is a cutting, is considerably larger.

Remember -- the Teas in that place are not cut down to shorten them.
(Nor are mine.)
That being so, they grow pretty tall. Some 8 ft, & easily that wide.
Others prefer to reduce the size of the plant, so maybe it could be kept
to 6 ft or so?
I don't do that because they don't respond well to it here,
and I like them big anyhow.

I have not SEEN a mature plant of Arcadia Louisiana Tea, you understand.
The Vintage illustration seems to me to indicate a bush of 6 ft or a bit
bigger, that is wider across than tall.
My half-mature plant looks to me to be heading in that direction.
Given another 10 years, I suspect it may be bigger than that, here.

That's not much help?

Jeri

Le Pactole in the Sacramento City Cemetery Historic Rose Garden:
{{gwi:233679}}

My Arcadia La tea is still an itty bitty cutting, hopefully it will be years before it gets as large as Le Pactole!

Janelle

Actually, I hope mine won't get quite that big. These two are TOO CLOSE TOGETHER for that.

But I'll deal with what they do.

Le Pactole has recently stuck some canes up close to 8 ft., so I gather that she is
very happy now.

Jeri

Can this really be ALT? I got it last year from Angel Gardens as a tiny band. I’ve been waiting for those beautiful globular blooms and these look very different. It’s obviously a tea of some sort, but hardly Arcadia Louisiana Tea, is it?

You have an exceptionally lovely rose there - but you are right to question it. The knotted center and pointy petal formation doesn't look like ALT to me although I've never seen one in person, just photos.

I would email Angel Gardens with your photo to see what they have to say.

@judijunebugarizonazn8, "Arcadia Louisiana Tea" has heavy, globular blooms mainly with its first flush and in the autumn; blooms in summer can have fewer, smaller petals and be less heavy and more upright. The character of the blooms does vary and much depends on the weather. The rose you received may well be ALT, but in a summer or warm weather mode. Plus yours is still a young plant, building up strength. I'd maybe give it a little more time. Here are some photos from mine to compare. Note that I don't really have many photos to illustrate the sparser blooms, nor photos of the sparsest blooms -- it's those giant globes that make ALT a "wow" kind of tea that makes you grab the camera.

July, 2011, still a young-ish plant:

Probably 2015, not sure what time of year

November 2019, globular

November 2018, showing some warmer pink in center and not globular.

April 2018, globular first flush

@judijunebugarizonazn8, here is a photo I just took. Have just had a few days of 100+F temps here (after a cooler-than-normal spring and early summer) and there's not much unfried bloom on ALT at the moment, except this one deeper into the shady part of the bush. The flower is smaller than average and not globular/drooping; also rather warmer pink than seen at the other times of the year.

Here is mine here, judi.

@judijunebugarizonazn8 your plant does not look like LAT. I no longer grow it (moved and it got left behind). Intial impression is that your rose reminds me of Blumenschmidt (?sp) which is a sport of Mlle Francesca Krueuger (?sp) (too lazy to look up spelling). Might want to compare you rose to those 2.

What an utterly romantic rose in the most idyllic setting Sheila.

catspa and Sheila, your remarkable photos practically brought me to tears with such a sense of deja vu. I'm so glad that you're still growing these wonderful teas, and ALT is a truly special variety.

Thank you Catspa and Sheila. Your photos remind me why I wanted this rose in the first place. So full and romantic! I think I’ll go ahead and email Pam with my photos and and ask her if she thinks there’s still a possibility mine may be the right one. It has been very warm lately, up in the high 90’s and hitting triple digits some days, so I can imagine the blooms would be smaller and less full, particularly on a plant so young. But I can’t quite imagine them looking this different… I appreciate your input and will let you know when I hear back from Pam.

I’ve been busy and haven’t taken the time to update here. I emailed Pam with the same pictures I posted here and she replied promptly. She understands my concern that ALT doesn’t look like we all expect but feels there’s still a good chance that I have the right rose and it just needs time to mature. I’m willing to wait, hoping that with cooler temps and maturity, I may yet see those gorgeous, nodding, globular blooms. At present she looks very similar to my Mlle Franziska Kruger. Though she is a beautiful rose, I don’t want two of her.

Well, here’s an update on my ALT… or rather, what I’m now quite positive is NOT Arcadia Louisiana Tea. I know that teas as a whole are quite variable, but I cannot imagine any being so variable as to look like the above photos of ALT in some gardens, and then look like this in mine! I’m thinking I might have Rosette Delizy. What think all you experienced tea rose gardeners? It is almost thornless, emits only the slightest fragrance that I can detect occasionally and is a very happy, healthy plant. And yes, beautiful! That surprises me, as I never cared too much for the photos of Rosette Delizy. I’m not crazy over that yellow/ pink combination, but it’s hard not to like this pretty little plant. I emailed Pam with these pictures and am awaiting her assessment and reply.

judijunebugarizona - I think your rose could be Rosette Delizy. Here is a pic of mine to compare-

Jackie

No. It's not 'Rosette Delizy.' Quite different. I've grown 'Rosette Selizy' fpr many years.

I’m certainly not an experienced rosarian as you are, Jeri, so I defer to you. But I’m curious what you see that convinces you my rose is quite different than RD?

Here is an up close photo of a bloom this morning. Which tea do you think it might be?

Judi -- They don't grow alike. Their bloom forms are different. I know people who grow both and don't think they are the same.

They're just not that much alike.

I’m afraid I’m not understanding you, Jeri… pardon my persistence, but I’m trying to understand which two teas you are comparing when you say you “know people who grow both and don’t think they are the same.” The photos I posted are of a plant that is labeled as Arcadia Louisiana Tea, but is obviously NOT. Since I’m convinced mine is mislabeled, I’m trying to discover what it IS… my best guess was that it might be Rosette Delizy. You said it is not Rosette Delizy and I was asking you what about it is convincing you that is it not RD. I think somehow we’re not singing off the same song sheet here maybe?

I get what you are saying, Judi. You are right your rose is not Arcadia LT.

Here is a photo of my Rosette Delizy today.

Here is my Clementina Carbonieri below also today.

These look more like your no ID than my other Teas.

Of note CC has an intoxicating fragrance, whereas Rosette Delizy has no fragrance for me today.

I have a small CC as well and it has bloomed a few small blooms. It is obviously a different rose than my supposed-to-be ALT. I have found no other tea that comes close to mine except Rosette Delizy, but I’m no expert and am certainly not familiar with all the tea roses out there, so I’m not at all dogmatic. It just looks so similar to all the pictures of RD that I’ve seen, that I am calling it RD for the present.

judijunebugarizona :

This thread is a bit confusing, as it started out talking about ALT. If I had your rose, what I would do is start another thread, under "Can you help me ID mystery tea rose?" or something like that. Then I would post clear close up pictures of: 1) more than one a closed bud, (ie covered mostly with green) a partially open bud, 3) a full leaf cluster, 4) a rose hip, if you have any, 5) a cane showing thorns (prickles) and 6), the back of a mature leaf. Also of course you should include open blooms.

I do think that all of those pics would give folks on here much more info to help you ID your rose - sometimes it is impossible to do with only pics of blooms. You should get more people looking at your pics by asking directly for help, IMO.

Jackie

Thanks, Jackie! You are right. It is rather confusing. I’ll see if I can start a new thread like that. Only problem is, my phone doesn’t let me start new threads on the Antique Rose forum, for some odd reason… I can do it on the Rose forum but not Antique Rose. Go figure. On my computer, yes, but then I have all the hassle of downloading pictures from my cell phone onto the computer, etc. Too much fiddle and fuss and I’m not techy and I get impatient with computers really quickly. So, that’s why I tend to piggyback off of existing threads…

Judi, you should be able to start a thread on the rose forum then also tag the antique forum before posting it. That should help you create what you desire.

I think your no ID does look like Rosette Delizy and Jeri just meant it was not at all like ALT.

What roseseek said - after you write a post to put on the Rose forum, it will give you an opportunity to add other forums. If you type in Antique Rose Forum, a box for that will show up, and you just click on it, and your post will show up on both forums.

Jackie

Well, either I’m impaired in the way of technology or Houzz works differently on my phone, because I have tried every way I know to add the Antique Rose Forum to my post. There must be a way, but I have yet to find it…

Judi -- I'll try to be plainer. I do not believe that your rose is 'Rosette Delizy' which I have grown for a good 2 decades.

I have not grown ALT for years, so I can't speak accurately re. that that.

Yes, Jeri, I understand that you don’t think my rose is Rosette Delizy. I was just hoping for an explanation from you after the last few pictures I posted as to why you think it does not look like RD. And perhaps a suggestion as to what you might think it is instead. But it’s ok. I’m going to keep it and enjoy it regardless of the name as I think it’s quite pretty and it’s such a healthy one.

judijunebugaarizona - I would be happy to post you inquiry as a new thread, on the Antique Roses and the Roses forum, if you post the additional photos I mentioned above. That is the only way you will get answers on here re ID - people need more data than the photos you have already posted.

Jackie

Judi, you might as well ask why I don't think 'Mister Lincoln' or 'Peace' are not identical to 'Rosette Delizy'.

They are that different. They're not alike.

Show them to Gregg Lowery or Paul Barden, or . . . heck, Mike Shoup . . .

Well, I tried to post here a few minutes ago and everything was lost. First I want to apologize to you, Jackie, for not replying to your kind offer to post the thread for me on the Antique Rose forum. I fully intended to try to get more thorough pictures together for identification purposes, something I’m obviously not too good at doing yet. (I thought I’d pretty much covered the bases except for the hips, of which there are none since I deadhead.) Anyway, I had several full days and am just now getting caught up.

In the meantime, Pam at Angel Gardens has been emailing me. She confirmed that the tea rose she sent me is NOT Arcadia Louisiana Tea… but it IS Rosette Delizy as I suspected. She will be sending me the real Arcadia Louisiana Tea shortly.

Jeri, I could be wrong, but I still think we might be missing each other? I am not at all suggesting that Arcadia Louisiana Tea and Rosette Delizy are the same rose… they are indeed vastly different roses. I was suggesting that the mislabeled tea sent to me was Rosette Delizy INSTEAD OF Arcadia Louisiana Tea. And Pam has confirmed that. I am content and see no need to get further input by opening a new thread. Thanks again for the offer, Jackie, and thanks to all of you for your input and opinion. I have learned so much from these forums over the last few years and look forward to learning more from all of you!

Here is a partially opened bloom from my Tea-in-Question this morning. I look forward to many more of these in years to come! And I am looking forward now to growing the real ALT as well.

judijunebugarizona - That is a fabulous picture. Here is one of my Rosette Delizy from last Spring. The opening blooms on the upper right appear to have the same colors as yours, and also note the very dark maroon new growth in the middle about 2/3rds of the way down - it looks like the new growth in your pic. My bush is mature and about 10 feet tall.

Jackie

Oh wow, Jackie, I somehow thought that RD stays in the smaller side… ten feet tall!!! But yes, I see the same colors in your blooms as in mine. The nights are cool just now, even a smidgen of frost in low- lying areas, but the days are very warm and the sun is clear and intense. The colors of my roses are clear and intense as well in this weather.

I should have mentioned that it is 10 feet tall because we are training it over a tall arbor. Left to itself, in our zone 9-10 climate, I would guess left to itself it would get maybe 6-8 feet tall as a free standing shrub. It blooms almost continuously from Spring through the Summer. I love it, and glad you have one (an extra bonus for getting sent the "wrong" rose!

Jackie

Judi -- I REALLY MISUNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU WERE SAYING!

It’s ok, Jeri. I was pretty sure that somehow I just wasn’t able to make myself clear to you… and in the meantime I was making myself out to look like a real ignoramus about roses! ;) I’m glad you understand now what I was trying so hard to get across and somehow failed for a while. It’s all good! Thanks again for your input and I’ll try to make myself more clear in future questions I post here.

And yes, Jackie, I feel very fortunate to have a plant of Rosette Delizy, one I likely never would have ordered otherwise as I didn’t think I’d like the colors very well. It’s a happy mistake and I get to grow ALT as well soon! I hope mine doesn’t grow as large as yours though…. ten feet tall is just a bit too much where mine is placed.