One of my clients owns a mow and blow service, when I asked about having his guys trim my hedge...He raised one eye brow and said "Have you seen what they did to my hedge? You don't want _______ cutting your hedge" His own guys had cut a hedge that was supposed to be 8 feet tall down to 4 feet.

I hope that your gardeners boss gives you a price break that reflects the "quality" of the service you are getting.

Well, I don't know what they are going to do. The office said they'd bring me a "new" rose to replace it. LOL, if they can find a 2.5-3 year old Climbing Eden with 7 foot canes at this time of year, they can bring it and plant it along the fence line (where I have to put a rose in anyway).

But I don't want "a" new rose. Unless it's an Eden in comparable condition (price probably about $120 or so; was when I purchased it), I don't want "a" rose just thrown in.

I wrote a very PO'd email...and haven't gotten a response yet. I am hoping that the field manager comes by tomorrow, because he's the one I know, and he's the one who I can talk to.

These guys are a bit more than a Mow and Blow. They're fairly good, in many ways...or I wouldn't pay the amount I pay. But to do this - two days after I'd emailed them and said "don't touch the roses!:...just chaps my beeeeehind.

Nothing I can do about it...just give the Eden a good long drink of water, and clean out the butchered stems and whatnot, and give it a little feed. Can't make the blooms or laterals come back...just have to get over it. But I'm ticked off.

I did get the Julia Childs and Peace roses from Stargazer today, and they're in great shape...and I repotted some lavender starts I had sent a week or so ago. And put down gypsum and mulch on the desert in the back. So I got other things done, but still can't "shake it off." LOL...I wanted those gorgeous blooms in my house in two weeks. And they would have been here, too...except for a gung ho guy with a weed whacker.

Sigh.

Best-
Herding Cats

If I were you, I'd think about replacing them with an individual with some experience. They are out there. The hired fellows come and go and often have no incentive to stay very long. The mowers they bring are full of everyone's weeds. Get someone who will use your edger and mower or you will battle weeds forever. And the hired men will blow the grass and weeds into your beds. A high school or college student that needs extra income and lives close by is the way to go. You can tell them what you want done and they will not do more than that.

Most mow and go crews just dont care one bit what you say. They will do whatever they decide is right that day and will make a mess and do raggedy cuts and stomp your beds down. They will rake up your mulch you hauled in along with the leaves and take it to the dump. They will spread weeds like a plague. They will break your irrigation with the machines and never tell you. I could go on. Get rid of these guys and find someone you can work with.

If you really want a bigger Eden, Otto and Sons has 117 of them on their live inventory list. (Can you tell I am itching to visit for their 40% off sale...sigh)

I know our nursery had a bunch of them too, but they just closed the rose fields for the season

Ah - thank you for reminding me that no matter how much work/time my garden takes, I will never allow another human to put their hands on it.

Kippy, thanks so much for that reference. I just spent some time on the website, and even called them to see what they had available. They have 15 gals 8 foot staked Edens for $124...they only deliver to my area with a $300 purchase, so I'd have to go up. Not a big deal...I could go.

The only plants they have on sale are the 5 gals., and when I checked on their PJPII, they're not ready for sale just yet.

Not a bad cost, considering I spent the same for 4 foot canes at my local nursery...but still, not sure I'm up to the drive. OTOH, the more I think about it, the more I think perhaps my gardeners should make the drive...and eat the cost of the new rose.

It's not like the Eden I have won't come back...she just won't come back until next year, at this point. Not sure what I'm going to do...we'll see.

I do have a ton of gardening to get done this morning...the roses are here for Papa's Garden, the Julia Childs and the Ebb Tides. I'll get those in for sure, and likely the Peace that arrived, as well (huge and happy plant). After that, I think I'll just turn soil, and see how far I can get with that.

Thanks again, Kippy, for the reference to Otto and Sons. I expect I'll be headed there in April for "Rose Days", and likely earlier...they have an Austin Test Garden, which is intriguing...and you can go visit it. So I may just go up and lurk around and see what I can see.

Best-
Herding Cats

So at least some progress has been made. The ground was workable in Papa's Garden, and I put in the two Julia Childs and the three Ebb Tides. I also was able to put in the very healthy and happy Peace rose in the front walk, where I had shovel pruned an unnamed rose yesterday.

Supplemented with bone meal and Rose Tone, gave all a good long drink, and will watch and wait and see how things go. Both Ebb Tide and Julia Childs are bands of own roots, so it will be a little while before they do much of anything, but that Peace is very vigorous (grafted container), so it shouldn't be too long before that one finds roots and grows.

I'll finish out the walkway with a Moondance and Soft Whisper.

And then it will be time to figure out what I'm doing in the other areas. LOL.

And I haven't heard from my gardeners yet. Probably won't until next week, I guess. I may send them an email with the link to Otto and Sons, and suggest they go get an Eden climber (15 gal is all they have right now; fine by me).

But work continues...and it's nice to be out there and getting my hands in the dirt. Now if only the desert in the back would transform. LOL.

Best-
Herding Cats

I shouldn't be so tough. Not everyone is bad. I have seen so many landscapes damaged by know nothings who are badly paid and have to rush from one place to the next. There is a nice guy who trims trees and trims my neighbors fern pine twice a year. After about 5 visits to my neighbors garden, I asked for his card. He has come over a few times to help with trees and once for some general pruning and haul away of excess bamboo. He actually listens to me and wants to learn about my different plants.

My main complaint is with the guys who are going out there and cutting not having a clue what they are doing. The company that does the house next door have almost killed the roses there. When they came, the roses were overgrown but healthy. Now they are ravaged and barely hanging on. The earth is stripped bare by rakes and blowers and weeds have moved in. If they finally get to the many weeds, they have already set a zillion seeds. The guys push the weed hoes right into the canes causing damage. The beds never had weeds before these guys came. Maybe there were one or 2 but nothing like now. The soil won't hold water anymore because it is sloped and without mulch, the short irrigation it gets runs right off. Some of the plants are so stressed that the rootstock has begun to try to take over. It makes me so sad that a few careless guys coming once a week could do this.

You sound like you know what you are doing, but just in case you haven't thought of this I thought I would add:

I also deal with heavy clay soil and I have found that a well made, tall and sturdy garden fork with strong, thick tines is my bestest gardening friend. I hardly ever touch the shovel or spade - only the garden fork for trying to get down deep enough to plant roses or any other perennial or to take them out or even to divide them and replant. I even use it for digging in enough to place in annuals. I use it for almost everything.

I hope you already knew this and have been spared an unnecessarily sore back but if not, I think you will find this to be an important garden tool. When we moved here (from sandy soil conditions) my garden neighbor (who was to become a valued friend) told me that I should get one, showed me how she used it and since then my garden fork goes where I go in spring and fall when I'm doing the grunt work in my rose and flower beds. Of course, as already advised, never ever plant in wet clay nor try to amend wet clay -

Hope this helps.

It's all right, Kitty. It's hard finding gardeners that listen to the homeowner. My biggest issue is I don't have a mower or blower, or I'd do my own gardening (I think).

But I don't understand how hard it is to NOT do some work...I mean, if I asked them to DO something, and they didn't have time, or the skill...well, I'd understand. But I asked them to NOT do something, and that takes NO effort at all. You know? Sigh.

I'll make sure I talk to the manager on Monday. I am likely going to run up to Otto and Sons come the end of next week, because I've decided I want to go see a few things they have...and maybe come home with an Eden for the other part of the fence. But still...I'm frustrated. I don't understand why NOT doing something was too hard to do. LOL.

MyLab, I don't know the first thing about what I'm doing. I am having fun, and I'm learning a ton, and I'm discovering that I find a peace while in the garden that I don't have elsewhere (especially since my cancer surgery earlier this year...it's been hard finding 'peace' at all).

I will absolutely take your advice on the wide tined fork. I can get one at the feed and tack store inexpensively, and it's a good tool to have around in general.

The good news is, that the transplants I put into the ground yesterday (the Julia Childs, Ebb Tides and Peace roses) all seem to be doing just fine. Nothing scary, and while it's still early in the game, I'm thinking that things are going well.

And I've finished putting out all the compost and mulch that I have here, and need more. LOL. But that's all right; just another excuse to go to the nursery. LOL.

I opened up my seed starting stuff, and I was thrilled to find that most of the sweet peas and hollyhocks sprouted. I have pressed them into little tray plugs, and in a few weeks, I'm hoping to get them into the ground. That will be a good start on next spring's flowers and riots of blossoms.

But I think maybe the best thing was, I looked at the garden earlier today, and thought "wow, things are coming along". Even my postman, who is aesthetically challenged, has said things are looking really nice. And two dear neighbors walking this morning said that they love coming past my house, to see what's changed and what's happening, and to "just admire" it. That made me feel really good.

I'm pleased. Still frustrated about the aggressive weed whacker, but still, I'm pleased. And I'll also say that the Eden doesn't seem to have any serious issues with being walloped like that; she seems to be just fine. No drooping, no sulking, no weird reactions...and even some new growth already (which I'm sure was already there, just not visible yet). No, I won't get my fence full of blooms, but at least she's handled it and seems to be all right.

In the meantime, back I go to fight the dead ground. LOL.

Best-
Herding Cats

Wow, you're doing a great job, and I'm with you about finding peace in the garden!

In defense of my mow and blow guys, they do a great job here, at a great price, and apparently have understood me about not messing with the beds, although most of them don't speak English (I'm in Texas). At 71, I'm past the mowing stage, and can use all the help I can get!

Don't know how large your garden is, but I get mulch delivered in 4 yard increments dumped in my driveway, which is cheaper if you need a lot, and believe me, it's your friend in the long run!

Peace is a great rose out here. If you let it grow large, it will reward you. I just snap off old flowers these days and cut out dead wood. Some people say that you can't smell Peace until you cut it and put it in a vase.

It sounds like you are making great progress! I was on vacation when I read about your beloved Eden being hacked down and felt sick for you. AGGHH! I'd say it's normal to feel the anguish you do for at least a few days, considering what you requested, and what you've been anticipating from her this Fall. Fortunately, all is not lost and I hope she'll come back even stronger for you in the coming years.

We have a gardener I call a few times a year to prune the plants in the front yard when they get out of hand. Our neighbor referred him to us as someone who knows what he's doing. Right from the start, he knew exactly what I wanted without me having to explain anything -- each plant (numerous Salvias, Lantana groundcover) selectively pruned, NOT shaved into little mushrooms. I didn't even have to explain anything, he just knows. He spends a few hours and when he's finished, the whole front yard looks neat as a pin, and he leaves all the clippings in a pile for us to run through the chipper-shredder to make mulch. He speaks and understands English very well. He actually works for a local nursery and does this on the side. I'm very thankful to have him. But the backyard -- that's all mine! :)

OG, yes, I like having the mow and blow part of things...I'm essentially quite lazy, and if someone will do (as I ask) the yards, I'll pay for it. Unfortunately, I don't have any neighborhood kids who'd do it...not in this area. And since I don't have a mower or a blower, I will continue to use a gardener. I just want them to understand me, you know? LOL. And all my spanish is medical spanish - I'm an RN - so it's not helpful when talking to my gardeners...

Kitty, my Peace is in the walkway. If you picture a 3 foot walkway in river walk from the driveway to the front door, the "walkway" garden spot is to the right. It's about 2.5 feet wide, and about 25 feet long (or just a bit more). To the left of the river rock is the "rose bed" which is about 8 foot by 20 feet, curved like the actual walkway, and it's lined with brick, too. So to come to the door, you come up the river rock, and have a planting area on both sides...and the one on the right is the smaller area that I call the "walkway bed".

It has (will have) roses and lavender and pansies and violets, and ends at a tree just at the door. Down by the driveway is where the Peace rose is, with the Radiant Perfume to it's south, separated by a Goodwin Creek lavender. It's in a great location in terms of sun, and it can grow rather large there (I hope about 4 foot by 2-3 foot). I don't have a great nose for delicate fragrance, so I'm hoping that it does have some fragrance, and if it's a good cut flower here, I'm hoping it will give me good fragrance in the vase.

Best-
Herding Cats

Jenn, yes, it's definitely a grief moment. Sigh. And I still look at her and get frustrated. However, there is already some new red growth in the general area, so I'm hopeful. I don't think I missed it while I was pegging her just a bit ago, but I may have. Even if I missed it and it's not regrowth from the butchering, I'm hopeful that this new growth will bloom for me...will pop some buds and give me some flowers. I have more hope today that there will still be some flowers this year from her than I was 5 days ago. But I'm still frustrated, too.

As for what I managed to get done today, I put down some drip irrigation in the side yard, moved the potted tomato plants, prepared a planter for the peas which will go in this week or next, and reorganized my strawberry plants (all in containers) and got everything set up with it's own drip line stuff.

I also cleared out the service porch of "stuff", and will be erecting a simple coldframe (tall, medium sized, three shelves) for my seedlings and transplants. That will go in a very protected, sunny in the morning only spot, which I've taken to calling "the nursery"...it's where I am trying to root some lavender and will keep the more tender plants until they acclimate to my area. I am also going to plant some wisteria (there's a tree I HATE growing there, but it would cost too much to remove) so the wisteria will climb and cover that tree. I am also considering putting in a climber back there, but I am not sure there is enough sun for a traditional climber. I may put in my Zeffy there, as it can handle "part sun" better than the Portlandia or the Ginger Syllabub (or so it says in the ads. We'll see!).

This week, though, I will be working to get the irrigation how I want it. I've got several soaker hoses, what feels like miles (but only 200 ft) of drip line 1/2 inch, about the same in 1/4 inch, and enough parts and gadgets to cover just about any scenario. I'm trying to figure out how to get a mister set up in the coldframe, as that would be optimum...

And I'm converting at least two sprinkler heads to dripline irrigation...one by my sidewalk fence, and another in the back yard. Both of those will go directly into rose areas, and I'm beginning to think that drip irrigation is a better deal every way I think about it...financially, aesthetically, environmentally. And it's fun figuring out drip lines and soakers...like a puzzle.

And just to note...the Ebb Tide that had the bud on it when it arrived opened fully today. The scent, even in such a tiny rose, is amazing. The color is very saturated and, since it's quite young, still more of a neon magenta rather than a purple...but they say it will deepen as it ages. I'm quite thrilled that it opened...to me, that means the plant took the transplanting well (at least so far)...it didn't drop the bud, it had enough energy to bloom, and it's quite, quite pretty.

From here on, though, I'll pinch the buds off...I want it to establish itself (along with the others), but I wanted it to bloom once, so I could see/smell it. I'm glad I did, too. Papa's garden will be gorgeous next spring...and how nice that will be.

Best-
Herding Cats

OK, so I had another (!!) question.

When the description says "full to partial sun", what does that mean, exactly? I have a few David Austins who are supposed to do well in "partial" sun, but I've been hesitant to put them there because...I don't want them to die.

So can someone (pretty please??) explain to me what partial sun actually, really means? I've got some spots that a rose - and a climber, particularly - would look wonderful in, but I don't know if they get enough sun.

Thanks, and thanks so much for helping me out. I'm having a ball getting all this stuff done, even if I did get my nose all scratched up when I tripped over my lazy dog and went headfirst into Queen Liz. LOL.

Best-
Herding Cats

Here's what partial sun means to me in central Orange County

Morning sun gives good fragrance rather than late afternoon sun. Mid day to afternoon sun is fine but late afternoon sun only makes the plants stretch and bloom less. I always prefer morning sun for petals that may burn in summer. The air is cooler in the morning and the roses open slower. For the roses that have no fragrance, I think mid day sun is fine. Pale roses will bleach out their subtle colors in strong afternoon sun. I don't know any rose that likes late day only sun. I finally quit trying it and planted azaleas, camellias, and gardenias in filtered and late day or just a few morning hours of sun. They think it's wonderful.

Newfies are awesome!

Yes, Susan, Newfs are indeed awesome. And cuddly. And sweet. And smart. And gorgeous. And, quite unexpectedly, they're also a HUGE conversation piece; I can't go anywhere with her without it taking several times as long than when I go alone...I call it the "Puparazzi"...folks have stopped their cars and gotten out to see her, when we were walking.

I don't know what they're going to do once she starts pulling...she's learning how to cart right now, but once she's trustworthy in a harness, she will start pulling me...and that will definitely stop traffic. LOL.

Yes, Susan, Newfs are awesome.

Kitty, I have an area in my front yard, that is blocked from late-late afternoon sun. And the way the trees have been thinned, that spot gets several hours (2) in the mid morning, and then about 3 or so in the mid afternoon. It also gets dappled sun between morning and mid afternoon.

I'm thinking of putting a climber over there...but I'm just not sure. I think what I'll end up doing is putting it in a container, and see if it is happy there.

I have one additional spot which needs a climbing rose desperately, and that's by the front door. It doesn't get a ton of sun (maybe 4-5 hours), and it would have to be in a container, but I need a climber there...or maybe some other kind of climbing vine; honeysuckle or another fragrant vine.

I have one spot that faces west, and I was originally thinking that I'd frame the windows with climbing roses, but I don't think it gets enough sun. So, I'm putting hydrangeas under the window, but still want something climbing there, too. It gets sun from about 1 pm until sunset, but some of that is dappled as it moves through the trees in the late afternoon...like 4-6pm.

Meh. I don't know what I am going to do there, other than the hydrangeas...and even those I'm not positive about.

Best-
Herding Cats

If you want blue or purple hydrangeas, then dig in plenty of peat moss and mulch with redwood compost to help keep the soil acidic. A big Hydrangea will drink massive amounts of water in summer. You can see the leaves begin to droop when it gets thirsty. I put a soaker hose under mine.

Trying out a space with a potted rose works very well. I let them get to 15 gallon size and move them around until I find "the spot". Digging out big roses is so much work.

I have to say, there is a reason these guys are my gardeners. I *do* like them...and today just confirms why.

I met the gardeners today when they were starting. In my broken spanish and his broken english, he explained that he was trying to protect the plant from cold weather, that the new growth was dangerous to the plant because it could make the whole thing die. So he was trying to save the plant.

Of course, the fact that we'd just survived a late season heat wave (well over 100*) notwithstanding, I understand where he was coming from, and explained *I* will prunefrom here on in.

What is good, is that I was able to show him other climbers in various stages of growth. I showed him bands, first year, second year, and third year, and he saw the difference in cane sizes, and saw what I meant when I tried to say "first year sleep/creep/leap, and explained climbers were different from regular rose bushes in the way, and timing of, cane work.

I told him I would be more than happy to show him "cutting" in January, if he wanted to learn. LOL.

Now, bear in mind, I have NO clue what I'm talking about. But he seems to think I'm some sort of magician rose-grower, because he saw the bands, and seems to think I just planted sticks in the ground. LOL.

He then asked me if I wanted him to feed the roses. Again, I told him no thanks, I will do it.

But it seems that management communicated the message that I was unhappy...they were both very sorry about how upset I am about the Eden (especially when I showed him my other Eden, which is giving me buds...), and said "no rosas por me casa..." and made a big pouty face and pretended to cry.

Still, the message was given clearly...and as long as it's this crew, I suspect there will be no more weedwhacking of my roses.

And I will say, that the Eden that took the beating seems to be trying to give back the blooms...lots of new red growth, some seriously plump bud eyes, and I've got faith that even though it will be a late (late) flush, I will still get one more flush from her this year...maybe in time for Thanksgiving. I'm just sorry that she's putting all this energy into regrowing buds, when she would have been close to being in full bloom.

Just thought I'd update the thread...

And, also, adding a new question. I was looking at Otto and Sons nursery, and am thinking of picking up some 5 gal Distant Drums for one corner of the front. They seem to be a really unique rose, and I like their subtle coloring.

Does anyone have an opinion about DD's growing habit here in this zone, or any hints at growing them? they're just so different looking...and I can imagine them with a bouquet of St. Cecelia or PJPII...

Best-
Herding Cats

Partial sun for roses means 6 (maybe 5) hours of direct sun from May through August. Sun angles have changed by this time of the year, and most spots have reduced hours of sunlight now. Or 50/50 dappled shade all day can also be OK.

Roses described as "shade tolerant" can bloom with 4 to 5 hours of sun. These may include roses with multiflora heritage, such as hybrid musks (Kathleen) and multiflora ramblers (Veilchenblau) might be good for the spot you describe.

Kippy, I'm blaming you. Not me and my apparently new addiction, no...just you. After all, it was you who said "look at Otto and Sons" and "sale" at the same time...

I ordered (and they will be delivered to me Tuesday...)
1 New Zealand HT
1 Sea Foam Shrub
2 Wildeves David Austin (DA)
2 Gruss an Aachen shrub
2 Teasing Georgia DA
2 CP Margareta (not climbers)DA
3 Distant Drums HT
4 The Fairy polyantha

All are in 5 gals.

The bill was close to $525, not including tax @ 8.75% and delivery ($40 in my area). However, because of that 40% off sale (ahem...), I only paid $320, plus the $40 and tax, comes to a grand total of just about $390.

My wallet is shrieking, but I'm ignoring it...the regular cost of those roses would be something along the lines of $600(without tax and delivery), so I'm not sorry at all.

I'm just considering this as an early Christmas present, or a late "get well" present, or both. LOL.

And just to note: my poor abused Eden is really throwing out some healthy new growth - lots of burgundy red canes, including some basals. In my climate, I'm not the least worried about winter damage, so it looks like Eden took a beating, but is fighting back strong and happy.

YAY.

Now, just to get the areas for the new plants ready. I'm planning to put the two Teasing Georgias in front of the Sea Foam in the back, and probably put the two Wildeves among the blue agapanthas which have to be thinned, that line my back yard. On the back fence, I am going to put two honeysuckle vines, and 1 corckscrew vine: both can climb up the fence and the trees, and will create a nice, fragrant, pretty screen of sorts from my back neighbors.

In the front yard, the Distant Drums will have some blue hydrangeas behind them, in a grouping in the front yard, at the end of the low post and rail fence that the Eden grows on. I will transplant the very happy Eden in a pot out to the fence, as well, so the whole fence will have Eden on it, culminating in the hydrangea/Distant Drums combo.

Lining the front yard, in the space between it and the alley, I'm going to put a line of The Fairy", all four of them. I will plant other flowers and stuff in between, but the purpose is to bring some color there, and to create a bit of a barrier between the alley and the yard. Behind those, I'm probably going to put in some foxglove, not sure of the colors yet. I may put down some (more) lavender (Goodwin Creek is my favorite lavender), and some catmint and periwinkle as filler, too.

And the last bit of news...all my sweet peas have sprouted, and will be looking for a home pretty quick in the garden somewhere. Same thing with the Hollyhock seeds I started at the same time. My delphineums have not sprouted, nor have the foxglove, so I'll try them again.

As for the rest of the roses, I'm not positive yet where they go. I'm totally and completely sure I'll figure it out...I have general ideas, but nothing's set in stone aside from the plans above.

And, I have my coldframe and a 3'x6'x1' raised bed kit being delivered today...the raised bed will have some veggies in it and be in the back yard, and the coldframe will go right outside my kitchen door, where all my homeless and/or failing to thrive plants go.

I am **so** an addict...but most addicts are not having nearly as much fun as I am. YAY. LOL.

Best-
Herding Cats

Hey...not my fault!

I still have not been down to Otto's

But a Mumstead is on my wish list, but the real reason for me to go would be:

5g Semi Dwarf Red Baron Peach
5g Semi Dwarf Santa Barbara Peach.

I want a couple of other fruit trees, but am debating if I want to deal with fruit that close to the street (temptation for fence hoppers and mess to clean up if the tree gets big enough to drop fruit there) or if a Ginko and a Red Bud would be easier in the long run.

I think what I REALLY need to do is sit down and plot the whole yard out

LOL, Kippy, yes it is your fault. If I'd've not known about Otto and Sons, I never would have thought...well, heck, I can get these roses *now*. And a sale? Yeahbob, I'm so in. LOLOL.

Besides, if I blame you now, you'll also be given credit when everything looks like an english cottage garden. And I can also blame you on my weight loss because of getting out into the garden and getting things done. "Blame", in that case, is not at all a negative thing.

As far as placement goes, I have to say one of the reasons I chose Eden for the front fence is that it has no scent. It's a gorgeous, gorgeous rose, and is definitely a keeper for many reasons, but it got placed on the front fence because it doesn't have a scent. I have far too many dog walkin', school-goin', exercising neighbors to be able to keep a scented rose looking good on the front fence, you know? As it is now, when Eden is in bloom, I get folks stopping and admiring, but no random picking occurs. I don't mind that so much, but it so damages the stems if you don't use clips...

So yes, sit down and plot things out. I did that (about 20 different times), and still haven't gotten satisfied that I've figured it all out. LOL. But it sure helps to have a "map" on hand, especially when I'm getting 17 (ish) bushes delivered...I need to know where to tell the guys to put them. LOL.

So take the time to map things out. It helps. I also have a "Big Chore" list that I work on daily...it gives me directions as to what to transplant and where, what to take down (e.g the tree branches from today), what soil amendments have happened and what needs to happen, and so on. Like a big "To Do" list, but only as concerns the garden. It has helped keep me on track, and keep me from doing things (or not) that I'd regret later. KWIM?

Anyway, next Tuesday is the day I get the roses. Whoo hooo!

And thanks, Kippy. My garden is going to look fantastic thanks to your recommendation of Otto and Sons. I spent quite a few hours with them on the phone in the last week or so, choosing roses, getting good advice, and just talking about my garden designs in general. They were all *exceedingly* nice and helpful. So thanks, Kippy. I really do appreciate the recommendation a lot.

Best-
Herding Cats

I have taken a few trips down there, I try and remind myself that with the size of their plants, I can only fit 3 or 4 in the back of the truck.

I took my mom down there and she was amazed at the variety, she rarely goes to a nursery other than to buy veggie starts or seeds.

You have a few that I wish I had! The lady down the street has The Fairy on the street side of her fence and they do really well with very little care. I was looking back at some photos from the spring, one that stood out was Distant Drums. And I have looked at Gruss an Aachen a few times.

Hopefully I can get a trip in to pick up a couple next week. Gotta love a sale!

There's something that happens with Distant Drums. I looked at it a few months ago, and said, "meh, no...". And then again about a month ago. This time, it was more, "well, pretty darned unique, I must say." And then last week, researching, I thought again about DD, and said "YES!" It's a rose that grows on you, I suspect...it's different in it's presentation of blooms, very water-lily like. The colors are...strange, but they work well together.

I got excited when I saw it on Otto's live list...

As for actually going there, I don't dare. If I did, I could NOT take my wallet, checkbook, or credit card. I don't think I'd even take my phone, for fear of making an instant transfer over the phone. LOL.

I have two cars - a Honda S2000, which is a two seater convertible, and a 2002 Camry 4 door. I have lots of experience loading either car full of stuff for horse shows and barn needs, and it's utterly amazing what I can fit in them...and how much.

However, they would be the one and only reason I would be able to stick with a budget...because it would be tough to cart 17 5 gals. in a Camry, no matter how nicely I packed things. LOL.

Yes, do get a trip in...it's worth it. And it's a SALE!!

I hope The Fairy is as tough and productive as they say; the spot I've chosen for it is less than ideal, so I'm really hoping they'll do well. Gruss an Aachen will be at the driveway side of my front rose bed, near where I'm taking the Queen Elizabeth out (transplanting). They're short enough so that you can see into the center of the bed (unlike the Queen Lizzy...), but tall enough to hide any leggy growth that some bushes have. And the color will compliment a lot of the flowers I'm going to be putting in...

Anyway, I'm off for the night. There is a lot - LOT - of work to do before the plants get here. While I know they don't need to get into the ground ASAP, but still, I want to get things ready. Lots of shoveling and raking and digging...and with the sweet rain we had today, it will be far softer and easier to work than it has been.

And I need to get the veggie bed set up for winter veggies, as well as the cold frame set up in the kitchen garden. So a lot of work starting tomorrow...and how nice it will be.

Best-
Herding Cats

I had a yard man once who "pruned" my Red Cascade, just as it was getting to a good size. Red Cascade is a climber. He pruned it from 6' to about 6", taking all of the canes off. He didn't understand why I was upset. It didn't recover from that. He also pulled up a shasta daisy, thinking it was a weed because it wasn't blooming. The list is endless. I don't allow the person who mows now to do anything to any plants. Mow and weed eat where I tell him to, and that's it.

Eahmael, I am just thankful that my guys didn't do that to the Eden...I would have had to trim *them* to 6 inches, and see how well they'd've come back. LOL.

Michael, I wasn't ignoring you...I lost a post! I thought I had responded to your help, but it never showed. I'm sorry. I will try to recreate it here.

MichaelG said:
"Partial sun for roses means 6 (maybe 5) hours of direct sun from May through August. Sun angles have changed by this time of the year, and most spots have reduced hours of sunlight now. Or 50/50 dappled shade all day can also be OK.
Roses described as "shade tolerant" can bloom with 4 to 5 hours of sun. These may include roses with multiflora heritage, such as hybrid musks (Kathleen) and multiflora ramblers (Veilchenblau) might be good for the spot you describe."

Excellent description, thanks SOOO much. It's fairly heavy shade, that spot. My biggest problem has been already dealt with - a loquat tree which had grown from seed, never been pruned, and gave me over 400 pounds of fruit early this year. After it fruited (I have loquat jam coming out of my ears...and all my neighbors were invited to a loquat gathering. LOL), I had it trimmed waaaaaaaay back, and now light has been getting there.

My biggest current problem is the cryptosporidium tree which is about 60 feet tall. I had it trimmed wayyyy back also, and am getting a lot of dappling in the front part of the area now. It still, however, is quite the tall canopy (and is a gorgeous tree, frankly...just needed to be thinned and cleared out).

I also need to get UP in the bushes and get them thinned out. That will allow a lot of light to come in, and it will help me out. Once I do that (probably sometime this week), I will be able to start really working the soil, clearing the ground and turning the dirt, amending and making things happier.

Here's the issue with this spot. It is about 7 feet wide, maybe 6.5 feet. It is the border between my lawn and the alley that borders the house on the north side. Before I got to working on it, there were some shrubs that grew in a hedge about 5 feet tall near the lawn, and a ton of different trees and bushes line the alley side. It's a great buffer for noise and allowed for privacy. A lot of privacy.

I decided I needed to open it when I discovered that a homeless person was living between the shrub/hedge. I found his life detritus, including numerous alcohol bottles, clothing, human waste, several bongs and meth stuff...and several needles. So I had HazMat come out and clear the area, and then I took down the shrubs. Now there is no hidey-hole, and I haven't found any further evidence of homeless folk camping out. Thank God.

But it still remains a partial jungle. I have a lot of work to get done there, but that's not too hard to do...just time consumptive physical stuff.

My desire is to put some thorny, mean, shade tolerant roses in a hedge in the middle of this area. I will have to run irrigation in, but that's really not hard...some drip irrigation and maybe a soaker hose, and voila.

the goal is to make this unfenced "crossing" far less appealing and far more painful than it currently is.

I looked at your two suggestions, and while Vechinbleu (I totally blew the spelling) is interesting, I am not too fond of it.

I'm thinking that if I put 4 "The Fairy" bushes in front, and then two Sea Foams in back, they will weave together eventually and make it terribly unpalatable to come through.

I also have a very big, very old, bougainvilla in the corner, a bright happy magenta. The Bougie is about 15 feet tall, and about 8 feet wide, and handles the corner (and goes up into the roof in one spot). So that corner is handled...but I've got that stretch which needs some changes.

Since Fairy is a polyantha, I figured it might do better in that area than anything else. I may find a different rose for the back part, instead of the Sea Foam (which can go elsewhere).

Anyway, those are the issues I'm struggling with in that area.

Again, I'm sorry I was delayed in responding. I hadn't noticed my response had not posted...but I hope the above explains more thoroughly what my problems are, and what the goal is...and maybe, what an answer will be.

Best-
Herding Cats

Just as a note...I indulged and got some Palatine Roses today. I wanted to get a PJPII for my neighbor (she loves mine) and put it into a planter and add some Goodwin Creek lavender for her Christmas present...and the only place I could find it was Palatine.

So, I got the PJPII for her. And I got 2 Lion's Fairy Tale and 2 Angel Veranda for myself. They'll ship out on 11/19, so I'll get them sometime shortly thereafter. I'll pot up my neighbor's rose and give it to her at Christmas, and by then I'll have actually figured out where the Lion's and the Angel Verandas will go. LOL.

NO MORE. I've got so many roses coming in, and I can't wait to put them all in...I spent 4 hours this morning in the garden, turning soil, trying to loosen soil, working up a serious sweat. I LOVED it...but according to my surgeon, I need to remember that I'm still officially recovering. LOL.

I also put in some foxgloves, stock, pansies, snapdragons, and a few salvia. I have to divide the East Friesland salvia I received recently, and then I'll get it in, too. I also put in about 15 calla lilies, but pooped out before I got to the iris, ixia, freesia, and ranunculus.

My lavender cuttings are not doing as well as I'd hoped they'd do, so I may cut a few more and try it differently. OTOH, I've had nearly 100% germination of about 25 hollyhocks and an equal number of sweet peas, so I'll have to get those wee plugs into the ground shortly.

And, I planted out some veggies for the winter - some lettuce and peas.

LOL...if my surgeon saw me doing this, he'd understand why I get so tired and sore. Just wait until I get those roses from Otto and sons...talk about marathons. That one will go for days...LOL.

Best-
Herding Cats

Yikes, I don't believe I've seen anyone become this seriously addicted so soon, lol!

Sounds like it's going to be gorgeous, and will definitely keep you out of trouble, with the upkeep!!

The guys sound nice but inexperienced. Why would they think new growth in your area would be damaged by cold in October? Now maybe beaten up by santa ana winds where I am is a possibility. I don't think you will have a freeze this soon in the LA area. Do you live in/on the foothills? I remember a freaky freeze in the pasadena area in Jan or Feb a while back but those are really rare. Cutting the roses just makes them put out new growth which would be again cut off by the gardeners. The rose has only so much food stored in the canes to keep putting out growth.

If the guys over feed any tiny roses that could cause a problem worse than cold. Most newly planted roses in our warm winter area will go to work growing roots all fall/ winter and not so much in the leaves and canes. Don't think they aren't doing something because they are and you can't see it. Come mar/apr 2013 you will see the tops grow rapidly.
You will have to work with your guys and hopefully all will be well.

There a two versions of the fairy out and about. One stands up and the other sprawls low. You will have to see which one you get. The other rose will probably overrun your fairys if you plant too close together.

I had kids drinking and smoking on the corner of my garden and leaving trash. A sprinkler on a random timer took care of the trouble.

OG, I've been obsessed with roses for many years, just never have had an area to plant in. The place I came from was a duplex, with no real landscaping, just "stuff". I had a 2x4 area of blank nothingness, and put in lavender, a Blue Girl, and a Heart o' Gold...but there was nothing else I could do there.

I have always loved roses...but until I moved here, I haven't really allowed myself to "get happy" with the roses. I saw Eden growing down the block, no tag, nothing...so I came here, and then over to HMF, and ID'd it. This was last May...got several plants, including three Edens, but then got fairly ill, and was unable to do much but dream...

So now, I have time, the cash (although I'm spending waaay too much right now...), and most of the time enough energy to do what I want to do with the rose garden and other areas.

No, not newly addicted. Just finally have a chance to indulge and explore and have fun. And I am having fun. LOL.

Best-
Herding Cats

No, Kitty, I'm not in an area where freezes happen. Shoot, we may get one for a few hours once a year, if that. So I don't know what they were doing...other than wonking my poor Eden.

They're not going to touch the roses, won't feed them, won't cut them...only blow them out and/or weed the area. *If*, that is, they remember. But I'll be reinforcing things...

As for which Fairy I'll get, I'm not sure I understand. The listing for them on Otto and Sons call them a "groundcover", and gives the measurement of 2 high x 3 wide x 3 spread...I'm hoping that's the one I get.

But can you explain more fully, when you have a minute? I'd really like to understand it, so I can see and handle any issues when they arise.

If there was an auto sprinkler that reached over there, I'd use the random on-spray frequently. But I don't have autos there...I will say I've seen no new evidence of "campers" since I took down the hedge...so the lack of privacy (and it was very private...and weatherproof. No rain could get there at all...) and the apparent ownership change (someone taking an interest in that area) seem to have gotten through. And no one really walks through the yard...I just don't want anyone in that particular area, and since it's not fenced, it's easy access...I am hoping to change that with rose bushes.

Thanks! (Have I said lately how much I adore this forum? LOL)

Best-
Herding Cats

Hi herding cats,
I've really been enjoying this thread and getting some useful info at the same time. I thought I'd pass on what I know about Fairy roses. I've never heard of the sprawling kind either, but I had a hedge of fairies several years ago and each rose was about three feet (two feet tall sounds a little short) by three feet with a spread of three feet. It didn't take long for the the bushes to grow into one continuous hedge of really nasty brier. A UPS man found out the hard way one snowy winter when he attempted to charge across the snow covered hedge just as I yelled a desperate warning to stop him. I think your Fairy hedge would work nicely to deter squatters (and hopefully, no UPS men).
I also have a tip about hollyhocks which I've grown for years all over the place. Just throw out the seed on the beds where you want to grow them in late fall, and again in late winter (you don't need to cultivate or do anything fancy--I don't even water them!). Don't bother with starting hollyhocks indoors. You will have waves of hollyhocks coming up by the end of June, and they'll keep on coming. They'll reseed, but you can easily gather more seed than you'll ever need. Just make sure the seedpods are dry before you put them in a plastic bag for storage. Crush the pods in the bag when you're ready to sow. The seeds will fall out easily. Sprinkle your gathered seed everywhere the hock stands seem thin and in additional beds you want them to grow in. You'll never have to buy another seed again, and you'll always have hollyhocks. Try to get a type of hock that blooms the first year. I love the fluffy double ones, and they've always bred true. I've gifted lots of friends, and even the woman who edges my yard, with the seeds. Everyone loves to get those seeds, and they often ask for them. Diane

Diane, thanks so much! That is exactly what I'm hoping to be able to create...a barrier of pretty flowers. Good to hear your experience. No, the delivery guys don't use anything but the driveway...so it will be only those folks who are not welcome who may encounter some owies.

When you say spread of 3 foot, what do you mean? I think what you mean is that it forms an area of coverage (for lack of a better word) that's three feet in circumference...as for the 2 foot being short, I'm fine if it wants to grow larger.

And thanks so much for the tips on the hollyhocks. I did start them this way, but will scatter sow them from here on. LOL, they're fertile little buggers, aren't they? I have been doing the seeds which bloom the first year, and some of them are doubles, so it should be a very pretty background for the rest of my garden. And thanks for the tips on the storage and gathering of the seeds...I will put it to good use.

Today's plan is lots of garden work...getting ready for the delivery on Tuesday of the herd of roses. I'm excited...

Best
Herding Cats

Start a new thread tuesday when the new roses arrive. I know your going to be excited when they show up.

LOL, yes, Kitty, I sure will. This thread is growing like I hope my roses do - fast, fruitful, and exciting. LOL.

I spent literally 45 minutes staring at one spot in the garden, and have come to the conclusion that this will be a "pink" bed. It's right up on the house, gets great exposure, and is on the inside part of the walkway coming from the drive to the front door.

I shovel pruned two roses from this bed this morning...both were a) old, b)suckered mightily, and c) unknown as to what they are. I have to transplant two or three existing roses from here, the Queen Lizzy, a Midas Touch, and a Mr. Lincoln. Midas Touch will go on the other side of the walkway, but the other two will go into the back yard. Not sure exactly where yet, but they'll have a nice home.

What I'm going to plant there are the Distant Drums, New Zealand HT, St. Cecilia, Fragrant Plum, either the Gruss or the Wildeve, and in the back at the corner of the house will go Zephirine Druhin climber. I am leaving the PJPII at the front corner, and the Betty White there just above the PJPII.

On the other side of the walkway, I've already got PJPII in a 1/2 barrel, Radiant Perfume, and a Peace. I'm going to put Midas Touch there, and Soft Whisper (bi-color like Peace) at the end of the walk nearest the door.

And that's for the front. I haven't quite figured out the rest of the placement, but I know The Fairy will go on that one stretch, and the rest will probably head into the back yard. I have one climbing CP Margareta which will go in the drive on the chimney, but other than that, I don't know yet.

There is one area in the back which will have the Sea Foam at the back, and then the Teasing Georgias in front of that, and then something low but I'm not sure which it will be yet. That's near the stretch of blue agapanthas that have habituated there, so I think that would look really, really pretty...the blue then yellow then white.

LOL, yes, Kitty...I'm quite excited. And every plan will change, according to the whim of the moment. However, I did a search and some of Papu's photos came up...and then I saw more of Hoov's...I've got quite the dream in my head. LOL.

Best-
Herding Cats

Hi again,
By the spread of a Fairy rose, I mean its diameter. If you imagine a square of 3'X3', a mature Fairy rose would just fit inside the square and touch the square's perimeter all the way around it. Of course, this is an approximation, and in your warm climate, the Fairy could get bigger!
All your hard work has given me some incentive (lacking this time of year) to get out and start digging up some stuff that needs to be removed instead of waiting to do everything in spring. I do need to wait on most of the roses till late winter and all are dormant for any transplanting (a great excuse for laziness).
Can't wait for your new thread to start. Best of luck on the hollyhocks. Diane

Diane, my gardens have been neglected for decades. There is a ton of stuff to do, include cutting down some branches, preparing beds, softening ground, and running irrigation to some areas that haven't had water aside from rain in decades. I don't believe your beds are nearly in as dire straits as mine are. So no guilt...deal? I'm just decades behind, is all. LOL.

thanks for the clarification. I've got two bare root Lion's Fairy Tale roses coming in the end of November (they said start shipping 11/19). The height listed is 3-4 foot, so the "wide-ness" would be three feet in every direction, yes?

That would work nicely in the desert area in the back...underplanted by Angel Veranda, and backed by a Crown Princess Margareta or something else (LOL, that's my brain..."something else").

I suspect things will get bigger here than other places...I'm zone 9/Sunset 20,and I've done some reading where it says that one should count on double the size of the tag statements.

Which, frankly, is a tad alarming. For example, I can't decide if I'm going to put Gruss or Wildeve in the front bed. Both are supposed to stay around 3 feet tall, but I don't know if that's true.

Does anyone know the final (mature) size of Gruss or Wildeve in my zone? I don't want to repeat the mistake of having a large bush in front of shorter ones...my Queen Lizzy is the mistake I mean. She shoots canes up to 7-8 feet tall, and is on the front edge of the bed...LOL. She's getting put into the back on a fence where she can reach for heights unknown without an issue...but I don't want to have to transplant again if I don't have to.

So, final size on Gruss and Wildeve? And on Distant Drums?

Thanks...

Best-
Herding Cats

PS: I read somewhere that threads are closed at 100 posts...so Kitty, I may end up starting another one sooner than Tuesday. LOL.

I am not the one to tell you who gets tall and who doesn't My Queen Lizzy is in the front of the bed too-lol. Only mine has never gotten any taller than 3 feet. She was with the Golden Celebration that does nothing, the sad Sheer Bliss and St Patrick. So I think that has more to do with the source of the plants at this point.

I realized the beautiful rose I took pictures of this spring that had covered a 6' fence panel at the music academy is probably cpm Makes me think I should get one to cover a fence panel too.

Otto has plenty of CPM, Kippy. LOL. (I know, I'm totally enabling, but turn about is fair play. LOLOL just teasing...).

And yes, CPM is a gorgeous rose, and definitely one that will cover a panel, from what I've read and seen. I've got two coming, and they are slated for the back yard on a south-facing wall. I hope they grow like I've read, because that wall is an old fence and I'm not going to replace it soon...so I'd like to cover it.

I'm sorry to hear about your roses' heights. I will say that my Lizzy has, quite literally, scared me at times with her height. LOL, I didn't understand the first thing about roses when I put her in for my Dad, 15 years ago or so (maybe 20 now...). He loved her there, but she needs to be in a place where she can just let loose and see how high and wide she will go. In thinking about things, I'm fairly sure that the nursery I bought from uses Otto and Sons...so this was probably one of theirs.

I'll miss her screaming heights in the front yard, but I'll be able to see her in the back...

I am leaving room for two Heart o' Golds in the back yard...I adore that rose - it's color, it's height (like Lizzy for me), it's presence...so I'm going to make sure that there is room for two Heart O' Golds back there somewhere.

But other than that, *my* fall flush is coming to a close...I've bought all the roses I can possibly handle; I suspect some will remain in pots for a few months, as I get the ground prepared and fertile enough to give me bloooms and lush growth. But since the front is mostly done in terms of soil, it's just a matter of repeating things in the back.

Of course, the back is worse. LOL.

Come Tuesday, I'll be overjoyed and quite intimidated at the same time. LOL...lots of work in the next 4 weeks or so, but after that, it's just maintaining things and letting nature take her course.

I hope.

LOLing at me. I'm such a newbie.

Best-
Herding Cats

Hi yet again,
I think we may have been talking about two different kinds of roses. I thought you were referring to a rose, still popular, that dates back to about 1930 called The Fairy. It's a polyantha and no relation to Kordes' roses called the Fairy Tale Series. The Fairy is the one I had as a small hedge and is very thorny, growing together to form a brier. The Fairy blooms in sprays and each little bloom is about one inch.
Now The Fairy Tale Series of roses are from the German hybridizer Kordes. Your Lion's Fairy Tale rose is from that series. I'm not sure of its size.I do have Kordes' Sisters Fairy Tale rose also called Home and Garden. It's about the same size as The Fairy, but I don't think it would make a good hedge. I'm sorry for the confusion. The Fairy, as I've said, would make an excellent thorny hedge. I would go with that one not the Kordes roses, for the hedge. Diane

Yes, Diane, it's the polyantha Fairy, from the early 19th century...and yes, it's a "mini" inasmuch as the blooms are tiny. The goal is indeed to have it grow together and form a brier, and hopefully discourage any interlopers.

And yes, I'm getting the Kordes Lion's Fairy Tale, but those are bigger and for the backyard.

I got 4 of The Fairy, but am thinking I may need one or two more. Do you know it's growth habit? How large/long they can go? They're supposed to be more able to grow in part sun, and that's the area...part sun, and on the low side of part sun, at that.

Thanks...I really appreciate your help, and everyone's help. YAY for this board!

Best-
Herding Cats

I have had both versions of "the Fairy". Somewhere through the years and being grown all over the world, two or more versions of this rose exist. I got the upright version from Wayside a long time ago and saw the lower, spreading version and finally got one. I forget where. The low version shoots out horizontal canes like a groundcover and a few taller arching canes but does not build a small upright shrub the way my Wayside Fairy did. The flowers were the same.

My Kordes Fairytale roses have been very large plants indeed and I have been impressed with how disease free they are. I have Lion's, Cinderella, and Pomponella fairy tale. All took a while to get going, but are now going strong. If you get any of these from Palatine, remember that the rootstock they use doesn't really like our alkaline clay based soil. I grew mine in 15 gallon cans until they produced their own roots and then planted them out in the garden. When I decided to move another rose I had bought from Palatine, I saw that the rootstock was almost completely gone. Fortunately, all the roses have done extremely well as own rooted plants. Palatine has a great selection of hard to get goodies.

I agree about Queen Elizabeth. I got the pale pink sport of Queen Elizabeth and it's even taller and bloomier!

Kitty, can you explain more about the Palatine roses? I had read that multiflora did not do terribly well in our soil here, but I had planned on acidifying it some.

When you say you grew them in 15 gal cans (which I have, no problems there), "until their own roots grew", can you explain that a bit more? Did you bury the rootstock underneath the soil, and treated them like own-root bare-root bands (if there is even such a thing?)

I am getting 2 Lions, 2 Angel Verandas, and one PJPII from them. The PJPII will be potted up and given to my neighbor, but the other four will be the ones I have here. The Veranda ones will only get 1.5-2 foot tall, so I was considering leaving them in pots. But I had hoped that I could get the Lions in the garden itself.

So, if you have the time and the patience, would you go further into detail about how to get grafted bare roots to go own root? And how would I achieve this?

As for The Fairy, I'll end up with whatever kind the bush is. LOL, I thought about calling Otto's this morning to find out about it, but realized if I did, I was more than likely to add even more roses to the list. There are some Pilgrims that are crying out to me across the interwebs, you see...

So, as with the first step in any addiction, realization you have a problem is the first step. I didn't call. LOL.

Thanks soooo much. I *really* appreciate the help and the time all of you are taking with me. It's quite heartening. :-)

I'm outta here for the night...bad headache and feeling a bit worn out, so I'm heading to bed early. Tomorrow will be a hot, hot day, so I need to get all the gardening I've planned done early, so I can bring the puppies into the house and stay in the cool during the afternoon heat.

Best-
Herding Cats

Hi Herding,
It's me again. I have quite a few roses from Palatine and they are all grafted onto multiflora rootstock which supposedly doesn't like to grow in alkaline soil, which I have (and you probably do, too). Some of my Palatine roses don't seem to be affected by this much, and others have done less well. I've found that using fertilizer for acid loving plants and Hi-Yield soil acidifier with sulfur, iron, and nitrogen help a lot. I haven't planted any of my Palatine roses in cans--just directly into the soil. It's thought that burying the graft union (the knot) below grade an inch or two will help the roses grow their own roots and not depend on the multiflora rootstock.
The roses in my Fairy hedge were all about three feet by three feet when they merged together to form the hedge. I was glad to learn that you had the old Fairy roses coming for the hedge.
Have a good rest. Diane

Morning, Diane and everyone.

I did have a good sleep - coupled with lots of snuggles from the kitties and the dogs, I slept very well. Headache is minimal this morning; some music while I garden, which makes me dance in the sun, will help the headache far better than any other analgesic. The neighbors worry about me, but who cares...LOL.

Yes, according to the listing on Otto and Sons, the Fairy I have is the old 1930's polyantha. I am going to plant them about 2.5-3 foot apart, and hope that they merge and create that barrier. I am also going to be putting in some other shrubs and bushes in the area, and maybe that will combine to deter anyone from crossing.

I will definitely use acid-loving fertilizer in the areas of the Palatines. I have two blueberry bushes, and they need acid, too, so it's not a big deal for me to put it down on the roses. Do you have a recommendation for the fertilizer? I've read good things about Vigoro, but don't know much about things like that. All I know is that initially, no high nitrogen, as the plant needs to expand it's root system, and nitrogen works on the top. I have Rose Tone, Neptune's Harvest fish emulsion, and Miracle Gro (although I don't really want to use that one). So, any suggestions and/or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

I will bury the graft union...that's something which has been a problem for me in the past, apparently. When I put the few roses in for Dad years ago, I followed the instructions to not bury the graft, but to have it above the soil line (or, at least that's what I recall).

Consequently, all the old roses here have graft unions on top of the shaft, which seems to have grown up quite a bit, in one case about 4 inches. Now, it may have been poor planting on my part (I have NO problem admitting that), but it's left some roses with a serious need for replanting. Sigh. But the worst - the Midas Touch - is going to be transplanted anyway.

I will be burying all of the existing rose bushes over the next few weeks. That way, at least I'll be able to give them some help.

Honestly, although my memory may indeed be faulty, I *thought* and remembered putting the union at the soil level. I wonder, then, if there isn't something under that lifts the union up. We don't freeze, thus no heave...so it's not that. But maybe a big root or something. Dunno.

And it doesn't matter why, in the end...I just need to replant. That I can do.

It's supposed to get to 104* today, so I'd best get into the gardens now, and take advantage of the morning coolness. I hope everyone has a fantastic Sunday, and gets to dance in the sun in their rose gardens...

Best-
Herding Cats

Of course, it had to get hot early. Sigh. I started at about 8:30, and came in at 12:15 or so...

Before the heat chased me inside, I managed to free the Eden Climber that had been in a pot since I got her about 1.5 years ago. I had estimated that her canes were about 4 foot, but no...they are taller than I am, and I'm 5'7". I armed myself by watching Paul Zimmerman's video on transplanting a rose, and followed his advice. She also got about an hour's worth of trickling water. I'm pleased and have good hopes for her...she had an enormous rootball, and tons of those little webbie feeder things, and most of that came to the new home complete. She's not showing any droop yet, although I do expect her to. Still, she's been moved, and her canes loosely tied down to the fence, and she will look fantastic there if all goes well.

Then, because it had to be done, I transplanted Midas Touch from the bed to the walkway; it's showing drooping already. It's roots were not in good shape at all. I honestly expect I'll lose this one. Which doesn't make me too sad...it's a pretty rose, but I'm not attached to it like I am Eden. (And I have no idea why I'm attached to my Edens...but I am)

And then, just because I wasn't already too hot, sweaty, tired, and lightheaded (or so I told myself. LOL), I went ahead and put Soft Whisper into the ground, too. I had to remove the Double Delight, and decided I couldn't bear to SP, so it's soaking in a bucket of water and I'll pot it up tomorrow. I don't know if it will survive; it certainly has not done well where it was, and that is prime rose real estate. It, too, has a poorly developed root system, so we'll see what happens. I won't miss it, to be honest...it's a cool rose, and great fragrance, but it's done sooo poorly that I think I'd probably have better luck with something else.

I have come to the conclusion that I will not be ready for the delivery on Tuesday, but I will be as ready as I can be. I will have a pot ghetto, but over the next month or 6 weeks, I'll be able to get things into the ground.

I also marked out the places for the Distant Drums, Fragrant Plum, New Zealand HT, Wildeve or Gruss in the front bed, and, in the backyard, have selected Queen Lizzy's new home.

I also culled some of the agapanthas (they've been there for 20 years, totally naturalized)...only removed two parts of the beds to make room for some roses. I also freed some bricks from the old, defunct, laundry yard (which is no longer in existence; and yes, there are more bricks there to uncover and move, too...)and moved the bricks into the driveway. They will go toward making "raised beds" of a sort, in the front yard by the fence, to keep water and soil from washing away under the fence (it's an old post and rail fence...and I constantly lose soil to the sidewalk).

I was going to take down some hedges under the front window, but ran out of steam. I may ask my gardeners to do that...just clear the whole area of ivy (sigh...) and the hedges. I'll put some things in pots there, and see how things go. It's west facing, so I'm not sure that roses will do well there...so I'll leave them in pots and see if they do all right. If not, well...I'll move them.

Gak. There's so much to do...and I just am not going to get it done in time. Oh well. The roses can stay in pots for a while...

Phew. I'm tired. Overheated and tired. But content. Lots of progress...I won't be able to move my body in a few hours, but a lot of progress has been made.

And, at the bottom of this post, is a link to the new post..."New, Need Help: The Saga Continues."

Best-
Herding Cats

Here is a link that might be useful: The New Post...